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Author Topic: Child pornography is evidence of a crime  (Read 1204 times)
notig
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February 08, 2014, 06:47:57 PM
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What I am getting at here is that there should be no restriction on the flow of information. Information itself is neither good or bad. It makes no sense to restrict information and in doing so for whatever excuse some may come up with can only hurt humankind. This includes things like software patents. Software is just math and all software patents do is arm patent troll companies with weapons to kill real innovation. Child pornography is gross but so is the evidence of any crime. If you saw pictures of a murder scene that is gross too. If you saw a village being bombed by some american drone with body parts all over the place that is probably a crime (or not?) and just as gross. But it should not be a reason to restrict the vital flow of information. State secrets and wikileaks is another example. At the crux of the matter is that the most dangerous thing to peoples freedom across the world are governments. You can't let a government operate in secret from it's people. If you do bad shit is guaranteed to happen and freedom will be lost.
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hilariousandco
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February 08, 2014, 06:59:38 PM
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Child Pornography is made to stimulate and profit from paedophiles. Pictures of murder scenes aren't, but I'm not exactly sure what your point is here.

stonerdyke
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February 08, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
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I have no idea what he's trying to get at either  Undecided
He's not trying to say we should be allowed to look at child abuse (its not porn, its abuse) is he?
notig
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February 08, 2014, 07:17:13 PM
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What I am getting at is that things like the Tor network and a DNS system that is based on bitcoin will make things like child pornography impossible to stop. "think of the children" is one of the things often said in going after certain technologies. Child pornography should be illegal and the makers of it and anyone who profits from it should be pursued and brought to justice... but the pictures themselves are evidence of a crime.
stonerdyke
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February 08, 2014, 07:20:58 PM
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What I am getting at is that things like the Tor network and a DNS system that is based on bitcoin will make things like child pornography impossible to stop. "think of the children" is one of the things often said in going after certain technologies. Child pornography should be illegal and the makers of it and anyone who profits from it should be pursued and brought to justice... but the pictures themselves are evidence of a crime.

It already is illegal and people have been caught and jailed for it.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/05/tor-deep-web-servers-offline-freedom-hosting

Not sure if he has been sentenced yet though.
hilariousandco
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February 08, 2014, 07:26:41 PM
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What I am getting at is that things like the Tor network and a DNS system that is based on bitcoin will make things like child pornography impossible to stop. "think of the children" is one of the things often said in going after certain technologies. Child pornography should be illegal and the makers of it and anyone who profits from it should be pursued and brought to justice... but the pictures themselves are evidence of a crime.

The way you make your argument makes it look like you're defending child porn. It's always gonna be impossible to stop, but people who try to shut down technologies because they can be used for illegal means are just being pretty ignorant and are not solving anything. Do we ban digital cameras and the postal service and paper money when they're involved in the making and distribution of child porn too?

Mike Christ
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February 09, 2014, 03:13:08 AM
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Point is, so long as there is a crowd for pedophilia, there will be CP; the only way to stop this is to cure pedophilia, not attack those who look at it after the crime has occurred.  The only effect of persecuting people who look at CP is an easy way to put anyone in jail if you can get the CP on their PC without their knowing; the fact that CP is still around on the dark web is enough to show us that the law is ineffective, reducing the belief that making the viewing of CP against the law will put our minds at ease that less pedophilia is occurring in the world to mere superstition, as the evidence, per usual of crime, shows us that the threat of punishment is a very ineffective way of curbing poor behavior.  We have two options then: we assert that the state is run by stupid people, or face the notion that there is more than one intent.

It's important to understand about modern government that there are spoken intentions and unspoken intentions.  If the spoken intention of restricting individual rights on the Interwebs to get rid of undesirable behavior is unsuccessful, and yet they proceed to do this despite the failure, then they are enacting the unspoken intention, whatever it may be; otherwise, after understanding that criminalizing the ownership of CP does not deter pedophiles or the creation of CP, the law would be lifted, and we would explore other means of solving the problem of there existing CP in a way hopefully not involving stonings.

Of course CP is bad, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot; you do not cure a fever by attacking the symptoms, and you can't get rid of CP by banning the product following the crime.  This is ineffective, and always has been: when alcohol was banned, the alcohol didn't go away, it was driven underground.  Weed has been banned, and it didn't go away, it was driven underground.  If weapons are banned, they don't go away, they go underground (look within any country where this has happened.)  We all know this; you simply cannot ban homosexuality and expect the homosexuals to disappear.  You get rid of these things through losing the reason why you have them in the first place, which means people no longer want to get drunk, or people no longer want to get high, or people no longer feel the need for weapons, or people no longer have interest in same sex marriages, or people no longer want relations with prepubescent children.

As I said, the effects of banning CP has not solved the problem of pedophilia, and only makes life worse for all of us, whether getting wrongfully tangled up with the courts over planted CP, or allowing it as an excuse for extended regulation over which sites we can visit or not.  I don't fully understand the appeal of children, but I don't think we should look at pedophiles like the Nazis looked at the Jews; they're people and they know what they do is wrong (or, unfortunately for most people, rather than understanding it to be wrong, they know they'll get in trouble for it) and we would do better to understand the causes of pedophilia, how to ward our children away from potential predators, and help current pedophiles and potential pedophiles overcome their abnormal attraction.  Child abuse is something I cannot forgive, having been abused myself (albeit not sexually), but the blame should rest solely on the abuser; in the same way, watching a video of a man executed by gang members does not make you an accomplice of murder, whether or not you enjoyed it, though I believe those who do should be honest so they can seek help; if viewing this type of material were banned, none would seek help in fear of prosecution, thereby helping the problem to continue.

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February 09, 2014, 03:23:51 AM
 #8

What I am getting at is that things like the Tor network and a DNS system that is based on bitcoin will make things like child pornography impossible to stop. "think of the children" is one of the things often said in going after certain technologies. Child pornography should be illegal and the makers of it and anyone who profits from it should be pursued and brought to justice... but the pictures themselves are evidence of a crime.

They are contraband as well, not simply evidence of a crime.  It is illegal to possess even if you have no knowledge of it.

Someone could make a post here on bitcointalk with an embedded picture of child porn, set to width 1, so you never even see it, and if it shows up in your browser cache, your computer can be seized and forfeited and you face being on a list for life with no chance of getting off and all your neighbors for the rest of your life will think poorly of you and try to get you to move for fear of their property value declining.

Tor and distributed DNSsec or anything else won't change that.  If you don't like it, talking about it here does nothing.  Write a bill and lobby to get it passed, anything short of that is you wasting your time.

For myself, changing the laws governing child porn is not anywhere near my top hundred list of things to do so you're on your own there.  Have many other fish to fry.  I wish you well.

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NewLiberty
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February 09, 2014, 03:26:39 AM
 #9

Point is, so long as there is a crowd for pedophilia, there will be CP; the only way to stop this is to cure pedophilia, not attack those who look at it after the crime has occurred.  The only effect of persecuting people who look at CP is an easy way to put anyone in jail if you can get the CP on their PC without their knowing; the fact that CP is still around on the dark web is enough to show us that the law is ineffective,

What was effective was the Anonymous Collective DDoSing every child porn site on the dark web.  That shut it down for quite a while and got a lot of heat off of the rest of their playground.

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Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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