The newbie 'broken record' threads, and an idea.

[Retty]

Hello everyone, as i'm still fairly new here I feel a bit   when i post in this section as don't want to give the wrong impression of me. I just thought i'd share an observation of what i see here on a daily basis as a newer member than a lot of others here.

I'm sure i'm not the only person who sees the same things being asked MULTIPLE times everyday by people on here, in particular in the beginners section and in the Bitcoin discussion sections. I just find it staggering that some of the most basic questions are asked repeatedly and the answers are even on the same page as they've posted on!  

I genuinely think that some of the things posted are virtual copy/paste clones with maybe a few different words sprinkled here and there.

Has this always happened here or is this a fairly recent thing? I can't answer that. But, what i do think could be the reason for these posts, is they are new people with literally nothing to say, so they write some BS that we've all seen dozens of times, even though the answers are most probably available in the next thread.

A suggestion

I don't know the extent of how many people join here daily and how many are just timewasters etc, but i suspect a fair few will NEVER participate in any part of the forum other than the bounty threads, and even then it's pretty much guaranteed to be very very basic.

What i thought of was an idea where an Introductory section was implemented into the forum, whereby, if someone were to join the forum they would be pointed to this specific section and would be asked what they are joining for, what they hope to achieve, what can they bring to the table etc etc. Basically, a way to see if people are genuine or not and in a way-POLICE (politely) members prior to actually posting elsewhere.

This may seem harsh to some, but i think its a good way of encouraging the right sort of people to be joining up here and sets a precedent that this place isn't a meal ticket, spam fest or a pathway to riches.

Of course, i'm not sure if this is even a possibility, and i know its possibly a drain on resources and people to moderate it. I'm literally only thinking of the  'Greater good' of this place. Anyhoo, i just thought i'd throw that out there to see what other people thought?

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[mdayonliner]

What i thought of was an idea where an Introductory section was implemented into the forum, whereby, if someone were to join the forum they would be pointed to this specific section and would be asked what they are joining for, what they hope to achieve, what can they bring to the table etc etc. Basically, a way to see if people are genuine or not and in a way-POLICE (politely) members prior to actually posting elsewhere.

A survey you are talking about. Personally, I would not like to have that kind of asking questions and answering them. I do not like participating on survey by any means.

People come here to know things they do not know especially related to crypto. Yes, lately (I guess, I have no idea how it was before I join the forum) there are these types of people who think the forum is gonna make them some money or worse is - to think of life changing money by participating the bounty campaigns and also signature campaigns. Interestingly I noticed some of these people thinks BitcoinTalk means Bitcoin ([DIY] BitcoinTalk ≠ Bitcoin) LOL.

Just read this... LOL

If "official" Bitcointalk is Buggy why should I trust BTC?

Typically, these members are the root of every problem you are pointing.

Farther more this is the psychology of theymos:

mainly because it's part of the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

It's always preferable to handle these problems by reshaping the environment to make them non-problems, rather than removing some freedom.

The motivation is the freedom of doing that you want to do. Problem is there are people who will take advantages from anything.

[Welsh]

Has this always happened here or is this a fairly recent thing? I can't answer that. But, what i do think could be the reason for these posts, is they are new people with literally nothing to say, so they write some BS that we've all seen dozens of times, even though the answers are most probably available in the next thread.

This has always happened, however it is now exaggerated by the fact that the forum is more active than it ever has been. The increased media coverage of Bitcoin, and cryptocurrencies didn't help us in terms of the signal to noise ratio. Bitcoin hitting a new high also encouraged others to get involved with Bitcoin, and the ICO boom has also contributed to the issues.

I don't know the extent of how many people join here daily and how many are just timewasters etc, but i suspect a fair few will NEVER participate in any part of the forum other than the bounty threads, and even then it's pretty much guaranteed to be very very basic.

What i thought of was an idea where an Introductory section was implemented into the forum, whereby, if someone were to join the forum they would be pointed to this specific section and would be asked what they are joining for, what they hope to achieve, what can they bring to the table etc etc. Basically, a way to see if people are genuine or not and in a way-POLICE (politely) members prior to actually posting elsewhere.  

This sounds a little like the newbie jail which was implemented a few years ago. This was abolished because of the exact same reasons why your proposed changes would not work. They fall into the same pitfalls of requiring unnecessary content that we just don't need on the forum. For example, back when the newbie jail was implemented there was a restriction that you had to post x amount of posts in order to get out, and wait a certain amount of time. I think this was a total of 1 post, and 4 hours respectfully.

What this resulted in is newbies opted to post introduction threads which added no value to the forum other than them saying hello and describing a bit about themselves. I've seen dedicated sections to this on other forums, and they just aren't needed unless someone is introducing themselves but, also bringing an opportunity for discussion. If the thread has a point other than introducing themselves then they are normally fine, but this wasn't the case when the newbie jail was around, because they were forced to make one post.

Now what has been proposed is a quiz which would be asked of new registrations at the time of registration, and depending on the answers given there may be certain restrictions placed upon them. For example, questions related to bounties, and trying to find out through a series of questions whether a new user is primarily looking to participate in bounties. Honestly, this will likely be ineffective once the questions/restrictions are public knowledge, and won't prevent the malicious users that register, and only prevent genuine users having the freedom to do what other users can do.

This may seem harsh to some, but i think its a good way of encouraging the right sort of people to be joining up here and sets a precedent that this place isn't a meal ticket, spam fest or a pathway to riches.

Finally, all this does is confine the spam to one section, and encourage that section to be bombarded by useless posts. It effects genuine members from partipating because they have to go through a real shit period to be able to participate in the forum as normal, and the users that we are trying to prevent spamming up the joint will be fine jumping through holes if it means they can earn money.

I encourage anyone that can come up with a solution to voice their opinion. What we do know is something has to be done, and theymos knows this. He's probably brainstorming himself on the best way to go about it, because let's be completely honest there's no easy way to come at this problem without slamming restrictions on everyone which sucks especially when there's genuine users wanting to participate, but they never get through because of the loops they have to jump through.

[Retty]

Thanks for your opinion guys, good to have a reflection on what has happened yesteryear. Hence the reason i posted this in Meta to see if people who have been here a long time could say if what i said was feasible at all.

You learn something new every day!

[NadiaHel]

Thanks for your opinion guys, good to have a reflection on what has happened yesteryear. Hence the reason i posted this in Meta to see if people who have been here a long time could say if what i said was feasible at all.

You learn something new every day!

Hey there!! Well, I think Welsh has already given you a great insight of what you asked.
Maybe you will find this interesting: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats
In the page I linked to you, there are the stats of the forum. As you will see, the average registration per day is about 450, and the most used boards are Announcements (altcoins), Bounties (Altcoins) and Altcoin Discussion.
I`m kind of new in here too, and of course, I am just unable to make a comparison based on my own experience, but if you take a look at the stats, you will discover how the amount of new users per day has increased dramatically since December.

I did join the forum the last December, as many, but, in my case, it wasn`t because I wanted to earn bitcoin (remember the hype), but because I`m interested in how you can analyse social behaves by studying a forum. To me, the stats are really enlightening yet kind of shallow. Even though you are absolutely right about the actual decay of the forum initial means, maybe this is the result of a global process. For instance, bounties. As well as the crypto technology is getting popular, there are a lot of new projects arising. Of course, it makes the cryptoworld kind of messy -many of them are just scam, but also speaks loudly of how important the crypto is becoming to the global economy, from the pocket of some guy in Indonesia to a new kind of collective economical-movement.

When a place become overpopulated, either a city or a "cyberplace", tons of problems appear, but, also, tons of solutions, created by imagination -so, maybe, this actual situation in the forum will encourage the site itself to become something new by the creativity needed in finding a solution.
Yes, the solution appears to be a great task. But, precisely, a great task always offers an opportunity for bright minds to create a whole new concept, so, who knows? Maybe this situation supposes a good challenge, for how do you answer the mean question in here:
How to stop the horrible behave of the many without breaking the freedom of the few?

[actmyname]

I'm sure i'm not the only person who sees the same things being asked MULTIPLE times everyday by people on here, in particular in the beginners section and in the Bitcoin discussion sections. I just find it staggering that some of the most basic questions are asked repeatedly and the answers are even on the same page as they've posted on!  

Here's the deal.

People will create shitty threads with shitty questions to create a subspace for shitty discussion. Clear?

Vague, general, common-sense thread titles will pop up.

Bitcoin price at end of month?
Will Bitcoin reach 10K in 2019?
Why is Bitcoin good?

Look at these titles and tell me that you can't create a short two-sentence reply. This is what people do and this is why there are a rampant number of 30+ page nonsensical threads, with people responding to either the topic line or to those in the thread, perpetuating meaningless discussion. Most of the replies will be "agree" posts where a user will rephrase the post they are quoting, perhaps adding one or two "insights" that are general knowledge. This is what I call a cesspool.

An introductory section or a newbie jail will not fix this.There needs to be more action taken by staff. More thread-locking. Despite their efforts, I still see many sections filled with a cacophony of bullshit, spewing dozens of pages of lusterless incoherence.

^{Hopefully the prose wasn't too bad.
I just have a strong opinion on this.}

[pugman]

What i thought of was an idea where an Introductory section was implemented into the forum, whereby, if someone were to join the forum they would be pointed to this specific section and would be asked what they are joining for, what they hope to achieve, what can they bring to the table etc etc. Basically, a way to see if people are genuine or not and in a way-POLICE (politely) members prior to actually posting elsewhere.

Read what theymos said:

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

There needs to be more action taken by staff. More thread-locking. Despite their efforts, I still see many sections filled with a cacophony of bullshit, spewing dozens of pages of lusterless incoherence.

Not only thread locking, but thread thrashing. You can't find one good topic to post in and have legitimate discussions in, when you go to sections like Bitcoin Discussion, Trading Discussion and Altcoin Discussion. Not to forget the Economics and Off-topic board. I want to visit the off-topic board and have some fun but no, the spam is just too much.

[funsponge]

What i thought of was an idea where an Introductory section was implemented into the forum, whereby, if someone were to join the forum they would be pointed to this specific section and would be asked what they are joining for, what they hope to achieve, what can they bring to the table etc etc. Basically, a way to see if people are genuine or not and in a way-POLICE (politely) members prior to actually posting elsewhere.

Read what theymos said:

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

There needs to be more action taken by staff. More thread-locking. Despite their efforts, I still see many sections filled with a cacophony of bullshit, spewing dozens of pages of lusterless incoherence.

Not only thread locking, but thread thrashing. You can't find one good topic to post in and have legitimate discussions in, when you go to sections like Bitcoin Discussion, Trading Discussion and Altcoin Discussion. Not to forget the Economics and Off-topic board. I want to visit the off-topic board and have some fun but no, the spam is just too much.

theymos suggested that he would only remove bounties as a last resort too but in my opinion that is the only way that we are going to stop this nonsense. We just have to let other forums deal with the bounties. We can still have altcoin discussion but just remove bounties. Bitcoin discussion and other boards are probably being neglected due to the workload being shifted to the altcoin boards

[pugman]

theymos suggested that he would only remove bounties as a last resort too but in my opinion that is the only way that we are going to stop this nonsense. We just have to let other forums deal with the bounties. We can still have altcoin discussion but just remove bounties.

That won't happen. Nor will theymos do it(because it is the last resort for some reason ) neither will the spam caused by bounties stop. They will move towards the services section, pay 1$ in bitcoin and the rest in tokens. Hell they can even pay in cents for all they care. Even if campaigns as a whole(signature and bounties) go down, airdrops would possibly stay(?). And not to forget giveaways and other stuff in games and rounds.

Bitcoin discussion and other boards are probably being neglected due to the workload being shifted to the altcoin boards

I don't think so. There are mods assigned to specific boards for a reason. Altcoin Board needs more mods, and the volunteers for that is - 0 so far(?).

[funsponge]

I don't think so. There are mods assigned to specific boards for a reason. Altcoin Board needs more mods, and the volunteers for that is - 0 so far(?).

I am sure that a lot of people would be willing to help out but there does not seem to be any interest in adding any moderators to these boards. There have been a few threads recently suggesting that certain boards get more moderators but to no avail.

[actmyname]

Not only thread locking, but thread trashing.

Actually, yeah. If you continually trash pointless threads, then bounty hunters will eventually stop posting in them. After all, they'll learn their lesson when the post count drops by 100 all of a sudden.

I suggested locking as opposed to trashing since it would be a less radical change however considering the fact that plenty of megathreads were trashed in past, I don't think there should be much of a problem there.Every time I go into any board outside of Reputation and Scam Accusations, I see many lengthy threads worthy of removal.