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Author Topic: Everyone is a victim not just the Gox customers  (Read 3914 times)
leopard2
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February 08, 2014, 07:35:45 PM
 #1

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC. Banks would offer BTC accounts just like European banks offer FX accounts for everyone. A few mouseclicks would be enough to convert some USD into BTC, in your bank's  online banking interface.

Can you imagine? No risk of getting scammed by unknown counterparties and excellent rates! That is free market; what we have today is a nightmare created by cancerous bureaucracies. Scammers reign freely while honest traders are arrested.

A reasonable limit such as $10K for cash transactions, would not be a hindrance at all. What we have today is not due to the prevention of money laundering but due to cancerous bureaucracies, trying to thrive and grow by sucking the lifeblood out of the real world.

Would Gox exist in such a free market? Maybe. Maybe they would not survive the competition.

To the people, it would not matter.

Gox is a government victim, and free trade is a victim.

WE ARE THE VICTIMS EVEN WITHOUT A GOX ACCOUNT.  Cry

Truth is the new hatespeech.
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Elwar
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February 08, 2014, 07:38:47 PM
 #2

I am a victim. We need a government bailout. Give me money.

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February 08, 2014, 07:45:54 PM
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That is SO TRUE man! You are right, if only there were more exchanges just like Gox that would let us trade in USD and withdraw the USD, we wouldn't rely so heavily on gox.

I guess in a way, gox became a necessary evil. After all, it was the only exchange that attracted all the big investors and allowed people from all over the world to deposit and withdraw fiat.
leopard2
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February 08, 2014, 07:59:08 PM
 #4

yep, and it continues on all levels: cash deposits being restricted = safest method outlawed = excellent for scammers using stolen accounts

Any regulation that creates a victimless crime, makes the world less safe. That is my theory.

Truth is the new hatespeech.
BADecker
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February 08, 2014, 08:09:10 PM
 #5

We have been lax. We have been asleep. Here is a link to some info that has been around for years. That people are starting to wake up to. It is the reason that the U.S. Government and the banks are starting to get violent. People are waking up.

http://www.abodia.com/ucc/articles/UCC-Connection-Howard.htm

After you read the info contained in the above link, look at the solution: http://www.abodia.com/ucc/.

Use this info to bypass all government regulation of Bitcoin and lots of other things... at least in the U.S.

Smiley

EDIT: Download the info - maybe the whole Abodia site - because who knows how long government will allow it to remain UP, after it starts to become popular.
whtchocla7e
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February 08, 2014, 08:11:46 PM
 #6

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC.

No. If it wasn't for the evil governments, there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, you could walk into one of them and never see your money ever again..
leopard2
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February 08, 2014, 08:18:01 PM
 #7

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC.

No. If it wasn't for the evil governments, there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, you could walk into one of them and never see your money ever again..

No, I wrote  "evil governments regulating everything to death". Good governments would not do that, they would only stop scammers. You never learned the difference between evil and good, as a kid? Worrying.

At the same time bad exchanges would go out of business quickly = damage control. Governments don't go out of business even if they are bad; so there is no damage control.

Truth is the new hatespeech.
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February 08, 2014, 08:19:30 PM
 #8

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC.

No. If it wasn't for the evil governments, there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, you could walk into one of them and never see your money ever again..

No, that would only happen for 15 minutes. After a few people got burned, and after everyone got burned a few times, they would ALL start doing due diligence before they did any Bitcoin business. After that, only honest businesses would survive. Some of the dishonest business owners would die in the process.

Isn't it about time that we start taking responsibility for our lives rather than letting governments do it?

Smiley

Meuh6879
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February 08, 2014, 08:31:51 PM
 #9

No one is a victim.
When i check my Bitcoin-QT ... i always have what i have buy (and mine).
I trust the bitcoin protocol to old my BTC in any case even my country crash ... and government freeze my bank account.

Don't compare the crap internet business (or government) with a secured network, please.
thetruth
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February 08, 2014, 08:34:05 PM
 #10

All governments are necessary evil. For them to exist victims required.
btw, don't worry bitcoin will survive, they need it to form a cashless society, it's been a long dream of the elites to make everyone use Big Brother worthless, trackable, decryptable money so that they can switch off wealth of an individual or do whatever they want with the economy.
landslide
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February 08, 2014, 08:34:29 PM
 #11

Will be interesting to see where Mt Gox goes... if it becomes a total scam then it will be really bad for the credibility of the crypto coins. Hope they will redeem all the missing BTCs.

                                 
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tropicalmonsoon
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February 08, 2014, 09:07:32 PM
 #12

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC.

No. If it wasn't for the evil governments, there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, you could walk into one of them and never see your money ever again..

Yes, and those exchanges that rip people off would be very quickly recognized by the Bitcoin community and no-one would do business with them. If there were many exchanges then they'd have a incentive to build a good reputation, otherwise everyone would ditch them and go to the competition. The dodgy exchanges would go out of business pretty quickly, while those with excellent customer service and a squeaky-clean track record would become very very rich. That's how the free market regulates itself. 
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February 08, 2014, 09:34:22 PM
 #13

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

There were. Most of them took the money and ran.
inoob
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February 08, 2014, 09:43:47 PM
 #14

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC. Banks would offer BTC accounts just like European banks offer FX accounts for everyone. A few mouseclicks would be enough to convert some USD into BTC, in your bank's  online banking interface.

Can you imagine? No risk of getting scammed by unknown counterparties and excellent rates! That is free market; what we have today is a nightmare created by cancerous bureaucracies. Scammers reign freely while honest traders are arrested.

A reasonable limit such as $10K for cash transactions, would not be a hindrance at all. What we have today is not due to the prevention of money laundering but due to cancerous bureaucracies, trying to thrive and grow by sucking the lifeblood out of the real world.

Would Gox exist in such a free market? Maybe. Maybe they would not survive the competition.

To the people, it would not matter.

Gox is a government victim, and free trade is a victim.

WE ARE THE VICTIMS EVEN WITHOUT A GOX ACCOUNT.  Cry


Nothing, that makes sense, is going to happen until governments can make their money from it. When the governments gladly jump on board. That's the time to get out.

No question is a stupid question. Smiley
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February 08, 2014, 11:37:33 PM
 #15

Will be interesting to see where Mt Gox goes... if it becomes a total scam then it will be really bad for the credibility of the crypto coins. .. [...] ..

Now, it seems others here know much more about the subject than I do. I'm just a Newbie for that matter, but .. This topic got my attention, and your posting made me wonder about the next.

Now, I don't know that much about the topic (yet), but - and I can only speak of my own experience - in my opinion it already does.

I signed up an account at Mt. Gox for I wanted to experience the buying of some BTC. And shortly after that I read all kinds of disturbing news about Mt. Gox and that people are starting to wandering if it is all a scam. Now, after that I have put my original plans on a hold. I decided to first get more information about the subject, and then - in time, some months or so maybe - buy some BTC and trade them/buy products with it.
So, I guess I am one of those newcomers, that - because of this news - hesitate now. And I can only guess it keeps much more people away. I can imagine that this is not a good development for companies that wholy or partly rely on doing their business with BTC.

Could it be that that is exactly what banks/governments are trying to do with their regulation-efforts?? Or is that a stupid question?
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February 08, 2014, 11:50:33 PM
 #16

Unfortunately bitcoin and all alt currencies in general are fighting an uphill battle against corruption/fraud/scams within its own community.  Forget about governments or government regulation.  There's enough scams and corruption on any btc or alt coin forum/website to make a grown man paranoid to the point of schizophrenia. 

So no.  I don't place the blame on governments.  That's just the easy cop out excuse.  I place blame on the inherent nature of digital goods and the constant impending risks of hacking and or being defrauded on direct transactions.  Now...compound that with a completely unregulated market NOT overseen by a more powerful entity to ensure things are running in a fair space...and it turns into armaggedon.  And that's where we're at right now. 

At any point in time, any or all of these exchanges can pack up their bags and leave with hundreds of millions of dollars of our investments.  And they wouldn't face any recourse.  Why? Because they're unregulated.  Same goes for getting your bitcoins stolen on a scam in the for-sale section in this forum.  Good luck trying to file a police report and having them returned by a 'blockchain cop.'

That is what you call a CATCH 22.


I'd like to think the best of MT Gox and that this is all just a huge misunderstanding and they'll eventually make good on their word, but at this point it's not looking good.  Chances are they could have been doing massive selloffs of the btc before suspending withdrawls and knowing that the price would plummet. 

This is the chance we all take with cryptos.  We must put our 'blind faith' into others when it comes to acquiring/trading more of it.  And unfortunately there are a lot more bad guys out there than we'd like to think there are.  And a great number of them lie at the top of the food chain in companies and corporations, just like our own governments.
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February 08, 2014, 11:52:17 PM
 #17

Well I think it was poor management at Mt.Gox that made this a problem that it is now. As for making it a problem for all, that is true, it won't affect only them, Mt.Gox has 19% market share so it will affect everybody.

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February 08, 2014, 11:54:29 PM
 #18

I want to be victim with 34m$ in my pocket too...
Cheesy

whtchocla7e
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February 09, 2014, 12:01:31 AM
 #19

Isn't it about time that we start taking responsibility for our lives rather than letting governments do it?

Smiley

You know what? That's a great idea. Lets step beating around the bush and just go completely decentralized.

Law enforcement? Military? Public education? Health care? Public goods? etc.

Who needs them? Lets make every person responsible for their own life and see how that works out.




Half-measures are for pussies.
BTCisthefuture
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February 09, 2014, 12:07:26 AM
 #20

If it wasn't for evil governments regulating everything to death, then there would be dozens of exchanges all over the world, if not hundreds, simply exchanging fiat currencies for crypto currencies with no questions asked. The way it should be.

You could probably walk into a bank, a post office or various types of businesses and shops, and freely exchange your cash for other bearer instruments like gold, foreign exchange or BTC. Banks would offer BTC accounts just like European banks offer FX accounts for everyone. A few mouseclicks would be enough to convert some USD into BTC, in your bank's  online banking interface.

Can you imagine? No risk of getting scammed by unknown counterparties and excellent rates! That is free market; what we have today is a nightmare created by cancerous bureaucracies. Scammers reign freely while honest traders are arrested.

A reasonable limit such as $10K for cash transactions, would not be a hindrance at all. What we have today is not due to the prevention of money laundering but due to cancerous bureaucracies, trying to thrive and grow by sucking the lifeblood out of the real world.

Would Gox exist in such a free market? Maybe. Maybe they would not survive the competition.

To the people, it would not matter.

Gox is a government victim, and free trade is a victim.

WE ARE THE VICTIMS EVEN WITHOUT A GOX ACCOUNT.  Cry

While I don't want too much regulation , it's lack of regulation that have allowed so many scam sites and questionable companies operate in the bitcoin field the last few years.  Again I don't want too much regulation, but I've never seen any evidence that allowing something to be the wild wild west would somehow limit the number of bad actors.

Hourly bitcoin faucet with a gambling twist !  http://freebitco.in/?r=106463
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