Cashing out bitcoin income paid under the table

[TermerDong]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

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[audaciousbeing]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

Depending on the situation of the law and the aggressiveness of the tax officials in your country, that is what will guide you in what you do. Over here, you before you claim to have a mining farm, it must have been incorporated under a certain name and every year government tax agents carry out tax audit on all companies in which the law allows them to still go backwards as far back as 6 years to carry such investigation and the moment they found something or nothing, the onus of proof is on you to disproof whatever conclusion they arrive and that is where the problem lies if this is applicable in your country.

Any misrepresentation would be interpreted as tax evasion which is frown against by most country so I would suggest that you stick to the confines of the law and do what is right. You might go away with it now and be caught in the future. Ignorance at that time would not be a tenable excuse.

[Hannahanto]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

Depending on the situation of the law and the aggressiveness of the tax officials in your country, that is what will guide you in what you do. Over here, you before you claim to have a mining farm, it must have been incorporated under a certain name and every year government tax agents carry out tax audit on all companies in which the law allows them to still go backwards as far back as 6 years to carry such investigation and the moment they found something or nothing, the onus of proof is on you to disproof whatever conclusion they arrive and that is where the problem lies if this is applicable in your country.

Any misrepresentation would be interpreted as tax evasion which is frown against by most country so I would suggest that you stick to the confines of the law and do what is right. You might go away with it now and be caught in the future. Ignorance at that time would not be a tenable excuse.

But is it applicable to citizens who live in countries who have not yet accepted bitcoin? I am sure when its legalized, all dues based on it are carried out from a to z. Until then none cares on it. Right? And mainly when crypto is exchanged into fiats, the transactions do not reflect that the transactions occurred on crypto based. So it would be an another search on who has done crypto transactions. So unless and until its legalized, paying tax can be looked up on.

[jseverson]

As always, you should be safe until you get scrutinized. You should be okay for as long as the amount in question won't attract tax auditors/investigators. As a small taxpayer, tax agencies will generally assume that you're filing correct taxes until you somehow mess up and set off a red flag.

If you do get caught, how much you can bullshit your way out of it would depend on your tax agency's crypto competency level. The IRS in particular has access to chain analysis services and could easily see through you, but others may not even know what addresses are.

That being said, I would still recommend that you pay the proper taxes. It depends on the country you're in, but cheating on taxes is not worth the trouble in most cases.

[darkangel11]

Really young meaning underaged? In most countries teenagers don't pay taxes, so you should be fine. If you're older, like a student, there are some other terms you should google. First one is the tax threshold. This is the sum of money you can earn every year without having to pay any taxes. If your income is above that and you still want to go under the radar, you have to decide if the sum is worth hiding. If I had big money to hide, I'd move to a country where cryptocurrencies are tax-free.

[RodeoX]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

Every moment of a bitcoin balance is recorded forever in the blockchain. I would not make up stories because if you ever were called out for it the lie could be the wort part. Consider what you will say when it is determined that the block containing your coin was mined in Iceland. How did you mine these in Iceland? And what additional taxes are owed to the government in Iceland? 

[dunfida]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

Every moment of a bitcoin balance is recorded forever in the blockchain. I would not make up stories because if you ever were called out for it the lie could be the wort part. Consider what you will say when it is determined that the block containing your coin was mined in Iceland. How did you mine these in Iceland? And what additional taxes are owed to the government in Iceland? 

Making up stories would just like suicide and as you said anything can be seen or tracked on blockchain where you cant really deny if evidence would really be dig up. Upto these days ive been wondering why there are really people who do always tend not to pay up exact taxes? You can really evade for sometime but you cant really able to hide yourself like forever.

[satana_igor666]

And in your country, operations on crypto-currency are allowed.  If not, then you and the taxes should not be taken from you, although you have no right to carry out operations.  First, read how your country relates to the crypto currency.

[Theb]

Uhmm. Cryptocurrency earned from mining is taxable under income tax not capital gains tax, you might be thinking of trading on crypto exchanges which are taxable via capital gains tax. Some countries even give capital gains tax in addition to income tax on miners who decided to sell their cryptocurrency when it appreciated in terms of price.  Also you are underaged I don't think you need to worry about being on the Radar by a taxing bureau as you still don't have any Tax Identification Number (TIN) which you will get on your first employment or when you decided to create a business.

[squatter]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

What country?

It sounds like you're not planning to report the mining income as a business. As such, I'm not sure I understand the need for this.

If the coins were mined by you, that's still considered income. You're just calling it mining (hobby?) income instead of wage income, but there are still generally taxes due on both. So you have two separate tax liability issues: 1) the income and 2) capital gains.

Depending on your jurisdiction and the amounts involved, there may be no tax liability if the coins were gifted to you. Then you might just have capital gains taxes due when you sell.

[countryfree]

How much money are we talking about?
If it's only a 4-digit figure in US$, it could pass under the radar. If it's more than that, do you need to cash out all of it in one go?

Anyway, don't say you mined it, because that raises questions. It's nearly impossible for an individual to mine nowadays. Better say it was a gift.

[Kemarit]

I'd like to start this off by saying I am really young and have never had to deal with taxes, I'm also new to Bitcoin.

So lets say I get paid under the table (off the books) in Bitcoin, could I simply claim that the Bitcoin was mined by me, pay capital gain tax (or equivalent of that in my country) for selling the Bitcoin, and be safe? There's no way to prove I mined the Bitcoin myself (especially if I claim I do not have access to the wallet anymore), surely I can't get in trouble for that?

LOL. Experience wise, that is not the wise decision to make up authorities to the authorities. Believed me, if will bite you sooner than you expected. To be fair, not just in crypto though, if you are taking about authorities, better tell them up front. They might give you a leway if you tell the truth specially if the money involved here is not that big and might give you just a warning for the offense.

[Lancusters]

It seems to me that people are to blame for the fact that the government is robbing them. Why do you report your earnings in bitcoins? This is at least unwise. You can cash small amounts through different banks and no one will notice you. I do not pay any taxes and will not do it. To prove that you have earned bitcoin to pay taxes is nonsense.

[palle11]

For my own view, I don't really like the idea of cutting corners to avoid payment of tax, that in itself is fraud because it's has been written in the constitution and to be taken as a crime.

[cellard]

Some people has pointed to how they got away with claiming the bitcoins were mined, but anyone with a brain could be able to look at the transaction that you sent to the exchange and then see if they were freshly generated bitcoins or not, but im not sure if this is the case.

If anyone knows I would like to know, im learning about taxes myself. For example I have no idea how taxes on signature campaign bounties work. Do you have to pay some additional taxes? (income tax) or you can hold it and declare it eventually when you sell for fiat as capital gains? Could you just claim that you mined it? do they actually look at blockchain records? Do you have to present screenshots (??) of the bitcointalk thread? Bounties and bitcoin are a very strange combo and im still yet to know how ti really works in practice.