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Author Topic: NXT Silver Bullion Gateway Gateway Updates and Information  (Read 12224 times)
oldnbold
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March 20, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
 #161

Anon136, just seen your post today on the pub thread - yes, definitely interested in your project and looking forward to updates. 
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March 20, 2014, 05:05:28 PM
 #162

so i was thinking. perhaps one way that i could avoid running afoul of the law on my nxt silver bullion gateway is to emulate a dry cleaners. dry cleaners take in cloths, issue a claim check for those cloths, alter the state of the cloths, and then return them in exchange for the claim check. for some reason unknown to me this claim check is not considered a "security" under financial regulations. Technically it should be, you can leave your cloths at the dry cleaner for an extended period of time and then sell the claim check to someone else and then that person can use the claim check to acquire your cloths, the dry cleaner claim check is a security in every sense of the word but legally it just isn't. So what ever the reason for that is, which i dont know, i can use it to my advantage by emulating that business to a t.

so lets imagine that i am a silver dry cleaners and the melting of silver shot into a bar is the analogue of dry cleaning the cloths, the silver shot is the dirty cloths, and the silver bar is the clean cloths. You buy 10 ounces of silver shot from some online retailer and set the address for delivery as a POBox of my specification. You then use your nxt address to sign the tracking number of the order and send me enough nxt to pay for the "cleaning". The "dirty" silver arrives at my shop and I issue you a claim check. After enough time has passed for me to "clean" the silver that claim check will become redeemable for silver that is now in the form of a bar. From that point on if other people want to trade that claim check amongst each other than thats none of my business. If there are legal ramifications than the onus is on them, it has nothing to do with me.

the nice thing is that there will still be a market for my claim checks but i will never under any circumstances be one of the sellers in that market. so if you want to acquire physical silver than the process will be no more complex for you. you will simply buy one of these claim checks on the market from someone other than me and then reimburse it at my nxt address. The people who deal with ordering silver shot and shipping it to my po box will be in a sense speculators trying to take advantage of arbitrage and for that service they will be affording me a level of legal protection.

one would think that since now there is a new middle man between me and the consumer that this would cause the price to be higher but i dont think this is necessarily the case because there is an advantage to be gained from outsourcing the acquisition of silver shot, a large group of people competing with each other to find cheaper supplies than the other will probably be much more effective at acquiring cheap silver shot than i could be on my own.

tell me what you guys think.
The analogy with the dry cleaners and talking about 'dirty silver', will make some people chuckle. In the UK dry cleaners are sometimes called, launderettes.  Grin

Anon, what specific reg or law are you concerned with?

im worried about failing into the bailiwick of either the cftc or the sec and being subject to regulations requiring financial licensing bondage and insurance. i dont know specifically what the regulations are that i may be transgressing. i couldn't tell you what book to look in and what page to look on. sorry.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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March 21, 2014, 12:27:36 AM
 #163

Will repeat my post from original threads about organizing such exchange: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5800384#msg5800384
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March 21, 2014, 09:20:02 AM
 #164

so i was thinking. perhaps one way that i could avoid running afoul of the law on my nxt silver bullion gateway is to emulate a dry cleaners. dry cleaners take in cloths, issue a claim check for those cloths, alter the state of the cloths, and then return them in exchange for the claim check. for some reason unknown to me this claim check is not considered a "security" under financial regulations. Technically it should be, you can leave your cloths at the dry cleaner for an extended period of time and then sell the claim check to someone else and then that person can use the claim check to acquire your cloths, the dry cleaner claim check is a security in every sense of the word but legally it just isn't. So what ever the reason for that is, which i dont know, i can use it to my advantage by emulating that business to a t.

so lets imagine that i am a silver dry cleaners and the melting of silver shot into a bar is the analogue of dry cleaning the cloths, the silver shot is the dirty cloths, and the silver bar is the clean cloths. You buy 10 ounces of silver shot from some online retailer and set the address for delivery as a POBox of my specification. You then use your nxt address to sign the tracking number of the order and send me enough nxt to pay for the "cleaning". The "dirty" silver arrives at my shop and I issue you a claim check. After enough time has passed for me to "clean" the silver that claim check will become redeemable for silver that is now in the form of a bar. From that point on if other people want to trade that claim check amongst each other than thats none of my business. If there are legal ramifications than the onus is on them, it has nothing to do with me.

the nice thing is that there will still be a market for my claim checks but i will never under any circumstances be one of the sellers in that market. so if you want to acquire physical silver than the process will be no more complex for you. you will simply buy one of these claim checks on the market from someone other than me and then reimburse it at my nxt address. The people who deal with ordering silver shot and shipping it to my po box will be in a sense speculators trying to take advantage of arbitrage and for that service they will be affording me a level of legal protection.

one would think that since now there is a new middle man between me and the consumer that this would cause the price to be higher but i dont think this is necessarily the case because there is an advantage to be gained from outsourcing the acquisition of silver shot, a large group of people competing with each other to find cheaper supplies than the other will probably be much more effective at acquiring cheap silver shot than i could be on my own.

tell me what you guys think.
The analogy with the dry cleaners and talking about 'dirty silver', will make some people chuckle. In the UK dry cleaners are sometimes called, launderettes.  Grin

Anon, what specific reg or law are you concerned with?

im worried about failing into the bailiwick of either the cftc or the sec and being subject to regulations requiring financial licensing bondage and insurance. i dont know specifically what the regulations are that i may be transgressing. i couldn't tell you what book to look in and what page to look on. sorry.
In not in the US, so not much empathy and understanding of regs and laws here, but I really dont see a huge problem, considering the initial amounts involved here. If it was me, i would incorporate a standard retail company solely for this purpose so as to ring-fence potential problems down the road. I know that sounds flippant, but its baffling sometimes for non-US peeps to understand how much time and energy the US uses up, worrying about what or what not, the authorities can or cant do.
I appreciate its better to be informed and ready, but would you really expect to appear on a bad-actor radar, as a new company turning over $20000 in the first year?
Just do it.  Smiley     
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March 21, 2014, 03:50:29 PM
 #165

so i was thinking. perhaps one way that i could avoid running afoul of the law on my nxt silver bullion gateway is to emulate a dry cleaners. dry cleaners take in cloths, issue a claim check for those cloths, alter the state of the cloths, and then return them in exchange for the claim check. for some reason unknown to me this claim check is not considered a "security" under financial regulations. Technically it should be, you can leave your cloths at the dry cleaner for an extended period of time and then sell the claim check to someone else and then that person can use the claim check to acquire your cloths, the dry cleaner claim check is a security in every sense of the word but legally it just isn't. So what ever the reason for that is, which i dont know, i can use it to my advantage by emulating that business to a t.

so lets imagine that i am a silver dry cleaners and the melting of silver shot into a bar is the analogue of dry cleaning the cloths, the silver shot is the dirty cloths, and the silver bar is the clean cloths. You buy 10 ounces of silver shot from some online retailer and set the address for delivery as a POBox of my specification. You then use your nxt address to sign the tracking number of the order and send me enough nxt to pay for the "cleaning". The "dirty" silver arrives at my shop and I issue you a claim check. After enough time has passed for me to "clean" the silver that claim check will become redeemable for silver that is now in the form of a bar. From that point on if other people want to trade that claim check amongst each other than thats none of my business. If there are legal ramifications than the onus is on them, it has nothing to do with me.

the nice thing is that there will still be a market for my claim checks but i will never under any circumstances be one of the sellers in that market. so if you want to acquire physical silver than the process will be no more complex for you. you will simply buy one of these claim checks on the market from someone other than me and then reimburse it at my nxt address. The people who deal with ordering silver shot and shipping it to my po box will be in a sense speculators trying to take advantage of arbitrage and for that service they will be affording me a level of legal protection.

one would think that since now there is a new middle man between me and the consumer that this would cause the price to be higher but i dont think this is necessarily the case because there is an advantage to be gained from outsourcing the acquisition of silver shot, a large group of people competing with each other to find cheaper supplies than the other will probably be much more effective at acquiring cheap silver shot than i could be on my own.

tell me what you guys think.
The analogy with the dry cleaners and talking about 'dirty silver', will make some people chuckle. In the UK dry cleaners are sometimes called, launderettes.  Grin

Anon, what specific reg or law are you concerned with?

im worried about failing into the bailiwick of either the cftc or the sec and being subject to regulations requiring financial licensing bondage and insurance. i dont know specifically what the regulations are that i may be transgressing. i couldn't tell you what book to look in and what page to look on. sorry.
In not in the US, so not much empathy and understanding of regs and laws here, but I really dont see a huge problem, considering the initial amounts involved here. If it was me, i would incorporate a standard retail company solely for this purpose so as to ring-fence potential problems down the road. I know that sounds flippant, but its baffling sometimes for non-US peeps to understand how much time and energy the US uses up, worrying about what or what not, the authorities can or cant do.
I appreciate its better to be informed and ready, but would you really expect to appear on a bad-actor radar, as a new company turning over $20000 in the first year?
Just do it.  Smiley      

yep im going to. if i make any profit than ill probably use it to build better legal protection. when i make enough profit to hire a lawyer i will do that and when i make enough profit to get licensed and bonded and insured than i will do that. until then though i dont want to spend money on those things if this isnt even a profitable business model. so lets find that out first. atleast until the point that i can afford those legal protections there is some protection from the fact that this is all brand new uncharted territory and so a definite legal grey area.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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March 29, 2014, 03:35:24 AM
 #166

ill probably have to start with something a little less ambitious than what was seen in the screenshots. im unable to find any machinists who are willing to take on my job at this time Cry

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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March 29, 2014, 08:48:48 AM
 #167

Something that may interest.... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg5902588#msg5902588
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March 29, 2014, 09:28:25 AM
 #168

Anon136 is a great man  Shocked

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March 29, 2014, 01:01:01 PM
 #169

Anon136 is a great man  Shocked


I also find     Grin
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April 03, 2014, 06:44:59 PM
 #170

ill probably have to start with something a little less ambitious than what was seen in the screenshots. im unable to find any machinists who are willing to take on my job at this time Cry
doesn't matter if it's not like in the screenshots, it's the project we love Smiley
Do you have any news?

Are you on nxtforum.org too (with this project)?

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April 04, 2014, 03:13:18 AM
 #171


thanks that was interesting.


Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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April 04, 2014, 03:14:10 AM
 #172

Anon136 is a great man  Shocked

I wish I was 1/10th as great as you guys think I am but trying to live up to your expectations is making me a better person I think.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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April 04, 2014, 03:15:21 AM
 #173

ill probably have to start with something a little less ambitious than what was seen in the screenshots. im unable to find any machinists who are willing to take on my job at this time Cry
doesn't matter if it's not like in the screenshots, it's the project we love Smiley
Do you have any news?

Are you on nxtforum.org too (with this project)?

ya im on nxtforum.org with the same handle. havn't made a thread about this there yet. probably should. thanks for pointing that out.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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April 04, 2014, 03:17:29 AM
 #174

Interesting. Thread might get invoked here.

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April 30, 2014, 05:07:50 AM
 #175

UPDATE Bars will be hand poured style since i could never find a machinist to take the job for my original mold design.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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May 21, 2014, 09:48:33 PM
 #176



3 bars made so far. you can see my progress. they are getting better. once i can prove to my wife that there is demand for this i can buy a tumbler. a tumbler will allow me to polish them literally to a mirror finish. You will be able to shave with them. I need your help to make this project a success. Buy sell trade evangelize this asset. More left in the giveaway fund if you haven't received any yourself yet or know someone who is interested.

Asset Name: silver Asset ID: 7819056276221630295

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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May 21, 2014, 10:34:27 PM
 #177

Looks awesome, good work Anon.  Question about Asset.  Are you selling the silver Asset tokens yourself?  I don't see that you are issuing the Assets in the sell category.  Or am I confused?
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May 21, 2014, 10:45:43 PM
 #178

Looks awesome, good work Anon.  Question about Asset.  Are you selling the silver Asset tokens yourself?  I don't see that you are issuing the Assets in the sell category.  Or am I confused?

No I do not sell them myself. I promised that I would not sell the assets myself so that the people who send me silver for storage have a better chance at making a profit. If you would like to acquire tokens directly from me than you may do so by sending me silver bullion in the mail.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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May 22, 2014, 02:29:41 AM
 #179

Looks awesome, good work Anon.  Question about Asset.  Are you selling the silver Asset tokens yourself?  I don't see that you are issuing the Assets in the sell category.  Or am I confused?

No I do not sell them myself. I promised that I would not sell the assets myself so that the people who send me silver for storage have a better chance at making a profit. If you would like to acquire tokens directly from me than you may do so by sending me silver bullion in the mail.

Ah, I see.  Was a little confused by the business model but understand now.
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May 22, 2014, 07:23:45 PM
 #180

Anon, what is the largest (in OZ's) silver bar that you can melt down?  I'd like to send some silver but want to make sure I don't send something that won't fit in the oven  Smiley  Thanks.
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