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Question: Bitmain at 51% of BTC Hash Rate. Would they hard-hard fork?
Yes. - 4 (28.6%)
No. - 8 (57.1%)
Abstain. - 2 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 14

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Author Topic: Bitmain 51% Attack? Would they do such if they get the hash? [POLL]  (Read 151 times)
Searing
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June 29, 2018, 06:04:32 AM
 #1


By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

 This being 1) his ego and 2) his efforts in BCH.

here is the link

https://cryptobriefing.com/bitmain-51-attack-bitcoin-network/

Better minds on here then myself ...if you were an 'evil genius' and planning this...how would it go down and what would you do?

(sorry, not evil genius material...simply trying to follow along on how this would be done ...as a loyal 'evil genius minion', don't ya know! Smiley

(do crypto they said in 2013, be a nice hobby, help micro-lending in India they said...sheesh...what a ride now in hindsight..and no end in sight yet!)


Anyway, just a pondering such, on possibilities and the likelihood of such and hell, how you or anyone would go about this, for the heck of it Smiley

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June 29, 2018, 06:22:17 AM
 #2

I was waiting for that kind of news for the summer so Bitcoin would continue to dump, then pump...

But well, here we are again with the 51% and it would definitely be the end if it's succeed.

Better minds on here then myself ...if you were an 'evil genius' and planning this...how would it go down and what would you do?

I'd like to read answers...

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(do crypto they said in 2013, be a nice hobby, help micro-lending in India they said...sheesh...what a ride now in hindsight..and no end in sight yet!)

It's been a long time since no one care anymore, unfortunately. Welcome on the capitalism 2.0!!

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June 30, 2018, 03:04:19 AM
 #3

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

well, i don't know but here is what i think:
it has nothing to do with having the will or the balls to do it, it has to do with the consequences of doing something like that.
when all things are said and done, Bitmain is still a company. and not just a tiny company, it is huge. and the revenue they are earning per year is huge too. it is said they made $4 billion in 2017. they have a mining farm, a mining pool and mining equipment production. i guess we can safely say Bitmain has a bigger stake in bitcoin than everyone else.

now the question is do you think they are going to ruin all this empire they have built? and for what? a 51% attack? i don't think so.

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June 30, 2018, 03:41:49 AM
 #4

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

well, i don't know but here is what i think:
it has nothing to do with having the will or the balls to do it, it has to do with the consequences of doing something like that.
when all things are said and done, Bitmain is still a company. and not just a tiny company, it is huge. and the revenue they are earning per year is huge too. it is said they made $4 billion in 2017. they have a mining farm, a mining pool and mining equipment production. i guess we can safely say Bitmain has a bigger stake in bitcoin than everyone else.

now the question is do you think they are going to ruin all this empire they have built? and for what? a 51% attack? i don't think so.

I'm sorry, because I do not understand. but if I look and read from your writing then I understand that Bitmain is one of the big companies and has mining and production mining equipment that generates $ 4 billion by 2017. It is not possible if the company built will be destroyed.
in my opinion it is unlikely they will destroy it, 51% attack is just a momentary drama, made to engineer the market.

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June 30, 2018, 06:57:20 AM
 #5

OP, but there is already a cartelization of Bitcoin mining. They can do a 51% attack anytime they want to. But will they, and essentially "destroy" the network? I believe not. They are already very heavily invested in the Bitcoin ecosystem.


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Searing
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June 30, 2018, 10:38:34 PM
 #6

Ok...so they won't do it...I get that

but IF, they or you had the power....and they wanted to do a 51% attack to promote BCH...how would they or you go about such?

(again, talking full evil here max damage)

just curious what would happen if someone did pull the trigger on this and try to destroy BTC...how would it play out?
 
as to if they will do so..they won't so...yeah...you all that have ....they won't do so.

But playing 'what if' now...would it all shake out in your view?

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June 30, 2018, 10:52:04 PM
 #7

not for bitmain, 51% is big for market
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June 30, 2018, 11:18:35 PM
 #8

Ok...so they won't do it...I get that

but IF, they or you had the power....and they wanted to do a 51% attack to promote BCH...how would they or you go about such?

(again, talking full evil here max damage)

just curious what would happen if someone did pull the trigger on this and try to destroy BTC...how would it play out?
 
as to if they will do so..they won't so...yeah...you all that have ....they won't do so.

But playing 'what if' now...would it all shake out in your view?

brad


1. You can't destroy Bitcoin with 51% attack. Attacker would need to constantly burn millions to either:

a) Double spend their coins. This is not as easy as it sounds, because exchanges and other parties will most likely require higher amounts of confirmations for bigger transactions. Also, with the amount of money and mining power involved, the culprit will very likely get caught.

b) Mine empty blocks. The network will be on hold, but there will be no other harm.

This will cause some panic and hurt Bitcoin in short term, but as soon as this attack will end, Bitcoin will go back to normal. Some altcoins have recently suffered from 51% attack and they didn't die, their price haven't even crashed much.

2. If Bitcoin will get 51% attacked, it won't help Bcash. They share the same algo, so it would mean that Bcash could also be attacked, even easier than BTC, because it has lower hashrate (there are rumors/reports that some group currently attempts to 51% attack it). If someone would win from it, it would be coins that market themselves as ASIC-resistant.

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July 01, 2018, 03:07:51 AM
 #9

Ok...so they won't do it...I get that

but IF, they or you had the power....and they wanted to do a 51% attack to promote BCH...how would they or you go about such?

(again, talking full evil here max damage)

just curious what would happen if someone did pull the trigger on this and try to destroy BTC...how would it play out?
 
as to if they will do so..they won't so...yeah...you all that have ....they won't do so.

But playing 'what if' now...would it all shake out in your view?

brad


1. You can't destroy Bitcoin with 51% attack. Attacker would need to constantly burn millions to either:

a) Double spend their coins. This is not as easy as it sounds, because exchanges and other parties will most likely require higher amounts of confirmations for bigger transactions. Also, with the amount of money and mining power involved, the culprit will very likely get caught.

b) Mine empty blocks. The network will be on hold, but there will be no other harm.

This will cause some panic and hurt Bitcoin in short term, but as soon as this attack will end, Bitcoin will go back to normal. Some altcoins have recently suffered from 51% attack and they didn't die, their price haven't even crashed much.

2. If Bitcoin will get 51% attacked, it won't help Bcash. They share the same algo, so it would mean that Bcash could also be attacked, even easier than BTC, because it has lower hashrate (there are rumors/reports that some group currently attempts to 51% attack it). If someone would win from it, it would be coins that market themselves as ASIC-resistant.



OK, again I started this thread because I don't know squat on how this would play out, but HOW is for example BCH supposed to do the so called 'flipping' and

take over BTC as they claim? Or is that just based on their hope that use as a currency and price would do this? (or it is just noise for BCH hyping?)

thanks...trying to sort this out....and hell, is it even possible for BTC to be overtaken at this point in time without the price having to go tulips first?

thanks, just looking for clarity and how much of this is just 'noise' to push their own agenda (BCH)

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pooya87
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July 01, 2018, 03:23:31 AM
 #10

as @hatshepsut93 said you can not promote BCH by 51% attacking bitcoin. they are the same thing when it comes to this sort of attack and if anything BCH is more susceptible to this attack because of its much lower hashrate https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-btc-bch.html#1y

the way to actually hard bitcoin with 51% attack is to accompany it with double spend. otherwise if you wipe the blockchain and put your own new blocks there with pretty much the same transactions only harms other miners. and if they double spend they will be scamming themselves and their pool will go empty as every miner connecting to Bitmain pools will switch elsewhere.

but lets say they did all that and were successful,.... one way that i have heard some altcoins fought 51% attacks is that they place some sort of "checkpoint" so the older blocks can not be orphaned. for example if a block is 5 blocks deep then it can't be orphaned no matter what. so someone doing a 51% attack has to only wipe 5 blocks because he can't do more and the merchants only have to accept 6 confirmation to not be affected by this attack.

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July 01, 2018, 03:30:49 AM
 #11

as @hatshepsut93 said you can not promote BCH by 51% attacking bitcoin. they are the same thing when it comes to this sort of attack and if anything BCH is more susceptible to this attack because of its much lower hashrate https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-btc-bch.html#1y

the way to actually hard bitcoin with 51% attack is to accompany it with double spend. otherwise if you wipe the blockchain and put your own new blocks there with pretty much the same transactions only harms other miners. and if they double spend they will be scamming themselves and their pool will go empty as every miner connecting to Bitmain pools will switch elsewhere.

but lets say they did all that and were successful,.... one way that i have heard some altcoins fought 51% attacks is that they place some sort of "checkpoint" so the older blocks can not be orphaned. for example if a block is 5 blocks deep then it can't be orphaned no matter what. so someone doing a 51% attack has to only wipe 5 blocks because he can't do more and the merchants only have to accept 6 confirmation to not be affected by this attack.

again, just curious...in that it looks like Bitmain will indeed control 51% of the BTC network and a big proponent of BCH. Probably does not mean anything.

But, again just was curious. So essentially the only way to counter BTC would be in usage...reflected in value...or as a new store of value angle on the coin.

yeah, those two seem like a real longshot..even if the BTC network does get centralized to Bitmain..won't matter any anyway, except, of course, Bitmain makes

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pooya87
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July 01, 2018, 03:39:55 AM
 #12

if we start theory-crafting then we can do it all day long. Tongue
maybe Bitmain controls 70% of the hashing power in their own farm (not pool). so they decided to distribute it among different pools. they can connect 10% of it to Slushpool for instance, connect 10% to ViaBTC, 5% to CKPool,... to bring it down to 30% or lower and connect that to AntPool which they obviously own.

or maybe they don't own that much. they may only have 10% of the hashrate in their farm and the rest comes from other actual miners connecting to their pools.

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July 01, 2018, 04:01:38 AM
 #13

Why would they threaten or hurt the network they have build their business around.
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July 01, 2018, 04:53:24 AM
 #14

It's unlikely Bitmain will do that, if he does. Same thing he destroyed his own kingdom, which he built with great difficulty. Or maybe if he did that for another scenario, it could have happened

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July 01, 2018, 05:24:28 AM
 #15

It's unlikely Bitmain will do that, if he does. Same thing he destroyed his own kingdom, which he built with great difficulty. Or maybe if he did that for another scenario, it could have happened


Is there ANYTHING Bitmain can do if it did gain 51% of the BTC blockchain..to influence or get its way on stuff with BTC and Bitcoin Core...

(sorry, power corrupts...with that much-centralized hash and the bad relations between Bitmain/BCH and BTC Bitcoin Core..wondering if that could be used

in even a small way as a lever or a way to slow down BTC Bitcoin Core progress or patches?)

hey, just throwing it out there..it is Bitmain by the way..they are frigging evil...)

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July 01, 2018, 05:43:31 AM
 #16

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

it does not matter if a pool has 51% or 500%
if the blocks/tx data do not match the rules/data the network has.. the block the pool makes will get rejected

the real fear is not that pools will attack the network. but that DEVLOPERS will introduce new code and promote that code as mandatory and even threaten to reject pools if the pools do not adopt the new code.

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July 01, 2018, 11:39:55 AM
 #17


OK, again I started this thread because I don't know squat on how this would play out, but HOW is for example BCH supposed to do the so called 'flipping' and

take over BTC as they claim? Or is that just based on their hope that use as a currency and price would do this? (or it is just noise for BCH hyping?)

thanks...trying to sort this out....and hell, is it even possible for BTC to be overtaken at this point in time without the price having to go tulips first?

thanks, just looking for clarity and how much of this is just 'noise' to push their own agenda (BCH)

brad


Their plan was to spam Bitcoin's network with fake transactions to drive the fees up while simultaneously using shills and sockpuppets on social media to spread FUD against BTC and promote Bcash as "the real Bitcoin" that have solved the scaling problem. This plan has failed, because spamming transactions is unprofitable in the long run, and users haven't switched to Bcash, because they trust developers that were working on BTC since early day, and they don't trust Ver, Jihan and noname devs of Bcash.

But I think the best explanation for Bcash drama is the idea that Bitmain is just squeezing profits from their own equipment, so this is why they've created a new SHA256 network. They are also playing with difficulty adjustment periods - when BTC difficulty increases, they switch to Bcash and vice versa. Before Bcash there was no major SHA256 coin to do this.

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July 01, 2018, 01:42:20 PM
 #18

But I think the best explanation for Bcash drama is the idea that Bitmain is just squeezing profits from their own equipment, so this is why they've created a new SHA256 network. They are also playing with difficulty adjustment periods - when BTC difficulty increases, they switch to Bcash and vice versa. Before Bcash there was no major SHA256 coin to do this.

that was just a short term game plan which was super profitable with their EDA hack on BCH and they milk it as much as they could before it was removed.
the long term game plan is that they have created demand! as a business it is sometimes not enough to have the supply (ASICs) you also have to create demand (ASIC buyers aka miners). and creating a new copy of bitcoin which they could mine and make profit was that demand creation.

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July 02, 2018, 06:04:02 AM
 #19

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

it does not matter if a pool has 51% or 500%
if the blocks/tx data do not match the rules/data the network has.. the block the pool makes will get rejected

the real fear is not that pools will attack the network. but that DEVLOPERS will introduce new code and promote that code as mandatory and even threaten to reject pools if the pools do not adopt the new code.

Which makes me want to ask you the question, "Does that prove that non-mining fully validating nodes important for the security of the network?"

Because there are Bitcoin Cash followers that keep on repeating that only the mining nodes matter. Do you agree with them?


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July 06, 2018, 03:44:22 PM
 #20

It seems to me that even if Bitmain wants to make an attack of 51% on bitcoin, they will not let it do it. Large investors who hold huge money in bitcoin will defend it.
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