What is happening?

[gravitate]

My friend bought a 1.7 BTC from bittylicious.com 6 hours ago and this is what the block chain says https://blockchain.info/address/1E3CPsLse7BMWyksukN4XhX66wY6Z5L1Am

Still an unconfirmed transaction. What is happening here anyone know please?

[DannyHamilton]

My friend bought a 1.7 BTC from bittylicious.com 6 hours ago and this is what the block chain says https://blockchain.info/address/1E3CPsLse7BMWyksukN4XhX66wY6Z5L1Am

Still an unconfirmed transaction. What is happening here anyone know please?

bittylicious chose not to pay any fees on the transaction.  This means it will take longer to be confirmed.

It could take a few hours, or a few days, or a few weeks.  It is impossible to predict.  Basically, you have to wait around until a miner (or mining pool) is generaous enough to decide to confirm your transaction for you for free.

[gravitate]

Ah ok thanks so nothing to worry about then?

[roslinpl]

My friend bought a 1.7 BTC from bittylicious.com 6 hours ago and this is what the block chain says https://blockchain.info/address/1E3CPsLse7BMWyksukN4XhX66wY6Z5L1Am

Still an unconfirmed transaction. What is happening here anyone know please?

Yep.

Transaction fee was 0 btc.

If you would not add 0.0001 BTC as a minimum fee you transaction will take longer to confirm.

[roslinpl]

Ah ok thanks so nothing to worry about then?

nothing to worry.

Transaction Is in the chain.

So you just need to wait.
few hours ...


next time configure your wallet to add fee 0.0001 MINIMUM

[DannyHamilton]

next time configure your wallet to add fee 0.0001 MINIMUM

Not his transaction.  He cannot add a fee.

The transaction was created by the bittylicious.com service.

They are the ones who are failing to add the fee and who need to be told.

I'd recommend that nobody use their service, and that everyone discourage everyone else from using bittylicious's service until they fix this problem.  Why would you trust someone with your money when they clearly don't know what they are doing?

[roslinpl]

next time configure your wallet to add fee 0.0001 MINIMUM

Not his transaction.  He cannot add a fee.

The transaction was created by the bittylicious.com service.

They are the ones who are failing to add the fee and who need to be told.

I'd recommend that nobody use their service, and that everyone discourage everyone else from using bittylicious's service until they fix this problem.  Why would you trust someone with your money when they clearly don't know what they are doing?

Ah. Such a cheapskates are those bittylicious

they wont even add small fee into transaction.. nice ...
Yes I will never use it for sure.

Anyway you dont worry and just easly wait for confirmations..

[gigatux]

next time configure your wallet to add fee 0.0001 MINIMUM

Not his transaction.  He cannot add a fee.

The transaction was created by the bittylicious.com service.

They are the ones who are failing to add the fee and who need to be told.

I'd recommend that nobody use their service, and that everyone discourage everyone else from using bittylicious's service until they fix this problem.  Why would you trust someone with your money when they clearly don't know what they are doing?

Chaps, Bittylicious sends fees on each transaction as determined by the reference bitcoind-qt client. Many transactions do have a fee on them, but if the reference client decides that one isn't necessary, Bittylicious doesn't set one.

This used to be just fine, but the network is getting more and more busy and basically the reference client now doesn't always include enough fees for it to always go into the next block. This is the case when the blockchain is more "busy" than usual.

So please don't insult us by saying that we "don't know what we're doing". We do, and we're going to force the fees to be sent always very shortly indeed (tomorrow), but it's really the reference client that's a bit out of date. Thankfully it seems like v0.9 will solve this.

[DannyHamilton]

So please don't insult us by saying that we "don't know what we're doing". We do, and we're going to force the fees to be sent always very shortly indeed (tomorrow), but it's really the reference client that's a bit out of date. Thankfully it seems like v0.9 will solve this.

Implies Bittylicious "knows what they're doing".

Operates a business that fails to pay a 0.0001 BTC transaction fee when sending funds to customers AND fails to inform customers that transactions may be delayed because Bittylicious doesn't always include a transaction fee.

You and I use very different definitions of the phrase "knowing what you're doing".

A business that "knows what they are doing" provides a high level of customer service, sets customer expectations appropriately, and strives to exceed those expectations.

[gigatux]

I presume you're aware that transactions can still be considered very high priority if no transaction fee is included? Your statements seem to imply otherwise.

You seem to be trying to turn this into something personal so I will quickly state our position:

• It used to be the case that relying on bitcoind to choose transaction fees would always result in transactions being confirmed quickly.
• Things have changed since then, and the bitcoind devs have recognised this too. A new fee mechanism is going into v0.9.
• Bittylicious realises that waiting isn't a good option, so is going to be sending a fee with all transactions tomorrow.

What else could you ask? Bittylicious realises it should do this, so it will from tomorrow. Clearly we missed the email from you suggesting that we should do this.

[gravitate]

IT was confirmed in the end anyway

[gigatux]

IT was confirmed in the end anyway

Good to hear! Well on behalf of Bittylicious, let me apologise for the amount of time it took. When the network is busy, it can take some time, even with the bitcoind automatic fee paying setting. As said, we're going to add fees even if they're not needed from tomorrow so this won't be an issue going forwards.

[DannyHamilton]

I presume you're aware that transactions can still be considered very high priority if no transaction fee is included? Your statements seem to imply otherwise.

You seem to be trying to turn this into something personal so I will quickly state our position:

• It used to be the case that relying on bitcoind to choose transaction fees would always result in transactions being confirmed quickly.
• Things have changed since then, and the bitcoind devs have recognised this too. A new fee mechanism is going into v0.9.
• Bittylicious realises that waiting isn't a good option, so is going to be sending a fee with all transactions tomorrow.

What else could you ask? Bittylicious realises it should do this, so it will from tomorrow. Clearly we missed the email from you suggesting that we should do this.

When I suggest "a high level of customer service", here are some things a business should NOT do:

• Make accusations at the public and potential customers
• Blame bitcoind for something that has been well known for over a year (larger fee increases odds of fast confirmation)

When I suggest "sets customer expectations appropriately", here are some things a business should NOT do:

• Fail to inform customers that transactions will be delayed

When I suggest "strives to exceed those expectations", here are some things a business should NOT do:

• Wait more than 4 weeks from when a problem is identified to implement a solution
• Fail to include a transaction fee, when it has been well known from the beginning of bitcoin that transaction fees are intended to be an incentive for fast confirmation

There is nothing personal here.  I am a consumer.  You are a merchant.  It is your responsibility to provide a quality business experience.  If you fail to do so, then there is no reason that consumers should be giving you their money.  That's how the free market works.  Consumers choose to give their money to the merchants that provide the better quality.  Consumers educate and inform each other about the shortcomings of the available merchants so that they can make educated decisions about which to do business with.

Implying that I am not educated in how the bitcoin protocol works, accusing me of turning a business arrangement into something personal, and implying that it was my responsibility as a consumer to tell Bittylicious that they should pay a fee, are not what I would consider to be the actions of a merchant attempting to provide a "quality business experience".  Honestly, such behaviors make me less likely to ever encourage anybody to use the service (and more likely to discourage use of the service).

[gigatux]

• Make accusations at the public and potential customers

I assume you're talking about what you wrote a bit later on. I will address that in a short while.

• Blame bitcoind for something that has been well known for over a year (larger fee increases odds of fast confirmation)

It's not blaming bitcoind. It just used to be the case that the fees didn't matter much and they always seemed to go in rapidly. Things have changed and delays are more likely so it's more important.

• Fail to inform customers that transactions will be delayed

This is something we've only noticed to any significant degree over the last week or so actually because a few nice customers that mentioned it. The problem was thus not identified 4 weeks ago so I will not quote that bulletpoint of yours.

There is nothing personal here.

Personal wasn't the best word. I really meant going beyond a discussion of technical aspects and turning towards insults including you saying that we don't know what we're doing. Statements like that turn the discussion away from facts. The rest of your statement about free markets etc. is of course true and I agree.

Implying that I am not educated in how the bitcoin protocol works

I think this was phrased something in a confusing way - it sounded like you were saying that transactions without fees always take longer when this isn't necessarily the case. Let's put this down to text sometimes not being a great way of communicating so I'm happy to apologise if I misunderstood what you were saying.

implying that it was my responsibility as a consumer to tell Bittylicious that they should pay a fee

Well I still would argue that it would have been nice to email us about this. It would have helped us resolve the issue a lot quicker than happening to stumble across this thread.

I hope you don't mind but unless there is any further factual discussion to take place, the buyer is happy and we're adding fees from tomorrow so I'm happy to leave the conversation here.