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Author Topic: PoW mining as a route towards achieving a Type 1 civilization and beyond?  (Read 331 times)
Tides_Network
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July 01, 2018, 08:37:52 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #1

As we know, a type one or PLANETARY CIVILIZATION

Has harnessed the entire energy output of its home planet or about 100,000 times the amount of energy we can harness. At this point, this civilization could control the weather on their planet and would not be phased by ecological issues. Natural phenomena could be altered and cities would likely be built wherever the civilization desired, like in the middle of the ocean. This is one self-preserving step in the direction of immortality for a civilization.


And a type two or A STELLAR CIVILIZATION,

Is a few thousand years more advanced than we are. This level of society would be able to harness all energy from its local star. This is where things start to get interesting and technology of this proportion becomes harder to fathom. A theoretical model that parallels Kardashev’s scale comes from Freeman Dyson, who conceived of the eponymous Dyson sphere. He formulated his theory in a paper titled, Search for Artificial Stellar Sources of Infrared Radiation, proposing a search for infrared radiation which could potentially be seen in civilizations harnessing the energy of their star with a Dyson Sphere. Dyson theorized a progression of levels in which a civilization could start to extract energy from its star ranging from a swarm of satellites to an actual spherical structure hovering around the star that could be inhabited.




And as of this moment it is believed that PoW style mining consumes close to 1% of all energy on the planet. The numerous ads we're all blasted with to sign up for some contract mining farm with over 1 million GPUs says that this is likely true. I've even worked for one and helped start another. Many, especially the newer ones found outside of Asia focus on using solar and hydro power in order to keep costs down and quite frankly that is just fabulous.

Could we be contributing to this push through demand for efficiency and overall consumption or are we more likely to reach a brick wall where our energy use infringes upon the planet's desire to produce electric power and we're outlawed globally in the same way that O-Zone destroying chemicals have been?

I think the former is more likely.

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July 01, 2018, 09:08:05 PM
 #2

Lets just do a quick sanity check on the 1% statement:

Total electrical power consumption globally in 2012 was 20,900 TWHs, with a claim that was up 5% by 2014 (21,945 TWH) per Wikipedia.  Charts from https://yearbook.enerdata.net seem to confirm a number in that range. 

Lets use Bitcoin as a basis for hashing.  Its hashrate is approximately 40 EH (40,000,000 TH) or about 3 million S9 13.5TH miners.  Round an S9 up in power consumption to 1500 Watts/hr to cover some incidentals like building lights.  So 1 miner uses 1.5KWh*24*365/yr or 13.1MWH per year.   3 Million of those would be 39 TWHs.  Bitcoin represents about 40% of global mining, so call it an even 100 TWHs for all mining.

1% of 21,954 TWHs is 219... so mining perhaps uses 0.5%.  Actually closer to 1% than I figured it would work out too.

Note this presume all serious amounts of mining of Bitcoin are used with S9 or better technology, since that has been around for a couple of years now.

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July 01, 2018, 09:13:33 PM
 #3

Lets just do a quick sanity check on the 1% statement:

Total electrical power consumption globally in 2012 was 20,900 TWHs, with a claim that was up 5% by 2014 (21,945 TWH) per Wikipedia.  Charts from https://yearbook.enerdata.net seem to confirm a number in that range. 

Lets use Bitcoin as a basis for hashing.  Its hashrate is approximately 40 EH (40,000,000 TH) or about 3 million S9 13.5TH miners.  Round an S9 up in power consumption to 1500 Watts/hr to cover some incidentals like building lights.  So 1 miner uses 1.5KWh*24*365/yr or 13.1MWH per year.   3 Million of those would be 39 TWHs.  Bitcoin represents about 40% of global mining, so call it an even 100 TWHs for all mining.

1% of 21,954 TWHs is 219... so mining perhaps uses 0.5%.  Actually closer to 1% than I figured it would work out too.

Note this presume all serious amounts of mining of Bitcoin are used with S9 or better technology, since that has been around for a couple of years now.

Really, 40% I'd thought bitcoin was closer to 25% these days. Perhaps my data is old.

But lets go with the 0.5% then, of total power used by mining these days. We are of course trending away with Ethereum looking towards a PoS/PoW hybrid for ultimately PoS.


Is this tenable? Even 0.5% of the world's power is a monstrous amount of power, already close to infringing upon the power use of other industries. I hear tell that China no longer subsidizes electricity for miners like they used to.

Do you think we're contributing towards a type 1 civilization? That this essential pit of "wasted" electricity may demand greater and greater renewable electrical resources if only to keep costs low enough for profit?

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July 01, 2018, 10:22:06 PM
 #4

If we used pow mining to fund solar problem solved.

Lots and lots and lot of solar power available.

Power is not much of an issue for Earth.

Irresponsible use of fossil fuel for power is the problem.

That and population growth.

Although massive crash and burn seems right around the corner due to irresponsible burning of fuels.

Guess I am lucky to be 61 as I will most likely die before 2060.

I see no way for earth to continue population growth and increased fossil fuel burning.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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July 03, 2018, 01:37:36 AM
 #5

If we used pow mining to fund solar problem solved.

Lots and lots and lot of solar power available.

Power is not much of an issue for Earth.

Irresponsible use of fossil fuel for power is the problem.

That and population growth.

Although massive crash and burn seems right around the corner due to irresponsible burning of fuels.

Guess I am lucky to be 61 as I will most likely die before 2060.

I see no way for earth to continue population growth and increased fossil fuel burning.

Perhaps not fund, but maintain solar power facilities? They do need repairs!

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July 05, 2018, 02:57:05 PM
 #6

And with modern medicine, you never know how much further our maximum lifespan can be stretched. You may see greater and greater blockchain solutions than you ever thought possible.

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July 05, 2018, 07:09:13 PM
 #7

Population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind and earth for that matter, assuming no nuclear holocaust will happen in the near future.
It's a big problem, far bigger than most will admit, as technology advances, less and less people are needed for mankind to function normally, more automation and less jobs to go around. 
On the flip side, inhabitable corners of the earth are shrinking daily, we have drought and femine in places people used to live happy ten or twenty years back, poverty is increasing all around the globe.
You see where this is going?
In the following years we will start to see mass migrations due to uninhabitable lands and soon earth will not be able to sustains its population for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing, you can check the predicted population growth - its doesn't look good, its actually scary to say the least.
By the time we hit 2050-2060 there's gonna be huge problems, and there's not much options that can solve this.
Either we start controlling population growth or there's gonna be cleansing, either by viruses or world wars.....
No doubt there's organizations around the world already planning how to get rid of mass amounts of people  Grin


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July 05, 2018, 08:04:19 PM
 #8

Most people don't like POW because they say its a waste of power and global warming.

However you need to realize that with POS there is a centralization issue if the coins are not distributed fairly, and in the beginning life of a coin that usually means the early adopters hold most of the power. Basically the way how 1% of the population has 99% of the money like today.

Its true that POW like an Antminer is a huge waste of resources and power and leads to unwanted pollution but you need to realize that Sports are no different. Sports don't really serve any purpose, its for entertainment but the amount of waste that goes on with sports is high also.

Take NASCAR for example, the amount of pollution created and gas wasted to go around in a circle is also very high.

Hence I don't think POW is that bad as people make it out to be.

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July 05, 2018, 08:55:35 PM
 #9

Most people don't like POW because they say its a waste of power and global warming.

However you need to realize that with POS there is a centralization issue if the coins are not distributed fairly, and in the beginning life of a coin that usually means the early adopters hold most of the power. Basically the way how 1% of the population has 99% of the money like today.

Its true that POW like an Antminer is a huge waste of resources and power and leads to unwanted pollution but you need to realize that Sports are no different. Sports don't really serve any purpose, its for entertainment but the amount of waste that goes on with sports is high also.

Take NASCAR for example, the amount of pollution created and gas wasted to go around in a circle is also very high.

Hence I don't think POW is that bad as people make it out to be.

Likewise. I think the negatives of PoW are overstated.

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July 05, 2018, 09:06:02 PM
 #10

If we used pow mining to fund solar problem solved.

Lots and lots and lot of solar power available.

Power is not much of an issue for Earth.


In the end is all about cost, solar will always stay behind if is not worth the cost for it. Also, to point it out, some governments give incentives if you opt for solar power and people in those countries are ahead x other countries, my point is if solar is equal or cheaper than price of power companies then yes, in china there are many places where coal is in abundance. As the world progresses, coal supply will be less and less and in the end only solar, windy or hydro power will stay cause they are renewable but right now, solar is still too expensive worldwide.

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July 05, 2018, 09:32:46 PM
 #11

Population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind and earth for that matter, assuming no nuclear holocaust will happen in the near future.
It's a big problem, far bigger than most will admit, as technology advances, less and less people are needed for mankind to function normally, more automation and less jobs to go around.  
On the flip side, inhabitable corners of the earth are shrinking daily, we have drought and femine in places people used to live happy ten or twenty years back, poverty is increasing all around the globe.
You see where this is going?
In the following years we will start to see mass migrations due to uninhabitable lands and soon earth will not be able to sustains its population for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing, you can check the predicted population growth - its doesn't look good, its actually scary to say the least.
By the time we hit 2050-2060 there's gonna be huge problems, and there's not much options that can solve this.
Either we start controlling population growth or there's gonna be cleansing, either by viruses or world wars.....
No doubt there's organizations around the world already planning how to get rid of mass amounts of people  Grin




LOOOOOOOOOL!!  Shocked Shocked

wow, you can't be serious??
where do I even start on how to reply on your post...

ok first the part where we agree, your last sentence,

yes, there are "organizations" even states(cough* cough* USA and it's insatiable desire to use everything in their power to fulfill their totalitarian goals, just to name one - taking over oil resources around the world and in the process causing death and destruction) that are already doing and still planning how to get rid of more masses,
for example,
over the years ever wonder how new diseases/viruses magically appear(cough* are injected) and spread always on places on earth where there is usually poverty - avian flu, mad cow disease, zika virus...etc. for the  purpose to get rid of those masses.

Next...
Just because we explored every corner of the earth doesn't mean population growth is the biggest threat to humanity.
Just take a look at this picture and tell me again population growth is the biggest threat to humanity, you can't imagine how many unpopulated areas are there on the earth. You can't grasp that size and neither can I!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/World_human_population_density_map.png

Sorry but you sound ignorant if you still think population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind then and if that's not enough remember that even today there are discussions about how one day we will populate other planets as well.

this one slightly pissed me off..."Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing"
How the actual fck do you know that for a fact?
Not only do we have enough but we have way more than we will ever need, but uneven distribution of resources is something totally different and fault of the somebody else(the 1% club)
As long as nature is stable and healthy(no nuclear holocausts...etc.) the nature will have resources to provide humanity with food, water and more.

As a miner and somebody engaged in crypto world you should know better than this...
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July 05, 2018, 10:12:07 PM
 #12

I think that other guy may have meant that overpopulation is a problem for places that people want to live in. There is plenty of land per-say but not much of it is a great place to live even with subsidies.

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July 06, 2018, 06:45:32 AM
 #13

Population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind and earth for that matter, assuming no nuclear holocaust will happen in the near future.
It's a big problem, far bigger than most will admit, as technology advances, less and less people are needed for mankind to function normally, more automation and less jobs to go around.  
On the flip side, inhabitable corners of the earth are shrinking daily, we have drought and femine in places people used to live happy ten or twenty years back, poverty is increasing all around the globe.
You see where this is going?
In the following years we will start to see mass migrations due to uninhabitable lands and soon earth will not be able to sustains its population for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing, you can check the predicted population growth - its doesn't look good, its actually scary to say the least.
By the time we hit 2050-2060 there's gonna be huge problems, and there's not much options that can solve this.
Either we start controlling population growth or there's gonna be cleansing, either by viruses or world wars.....
No doubt there's organizations around the world already planning how to get rid of mass amounts of people  Grin




LOOOOOOOOOL!!  Shocked Shocked

wow, you can't be serious??
where do I even start on how to reply on your post...

ok first the part where we agree, your last sentence,

yes, there are "organizations" even states(cough* cough* USA and it's insatiable desire to use everything in their power to fulfill their totalitarian goals, just to name one - taking over oil resources around the world and in the process causing death and destruction) that are already doing and still planning how to get rid of more masses,
for example,
over the years ever wonder how new diseases/viruses magically appear(cough* are injected) and spread always on places on earth where there is usually poverty - avian flu, mad cow disease, zika virus...etc. for the  purpose to get rid of those masses.

Next...
Just because we explored every corner of the earth doesn't mean population growth is the biggest threat to humanity.
Just take a look at this picture and tell me again population growth is the biggest threat to humanity, you can't imagine how many unpopulated areas are there on the earth. You can't grasp that size and neither can I!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/World_human_population_density_map.png

Sorry but you sound ignorant if you still think population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind then and if that's not enough remember that even today there are discussions about how one day we will populate other planets as well.

this one slightly pissed me off..."Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing"
How the actual fck do you know that for a fact?
Not only do we have enough but we have way more than we will ever need, but uneven distribution of resources is something totally different and fault of the somebody else(the 1% club)
As long as nature is stable and healthy(no nuclear holocausts...etc.) the nature will have resources to provide humanity with food, water and more.

As a miner and somebody engaged in crypto world you should know better than this...


I agree with everything you said.
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July 06, 2018, 09:46:37 AM
 #14

Population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind and earth for that matter, assuming no nuclear holocaust will happen in the near future.
It's a big problem, far bigger than most will admit, as technology advances, less and less people are needed for mankind to function normally, more automation and less jobs to go around.  
On the flip side, inhabitable corners of the earth are shrinking daily, we have drought and femine in places people used to live happy ten or twenty years back, poverty is increasing all around the globe.
You see where this is going?
In the following years we will start to see mass migrations due to uninhabitable lands and soon earth will not be able to sustains its population for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing, you can check the predicted population growth - its doesn't look good, its actually scary to say the least.
By the time we hit 2050-2060 there's gonna be huge problems, and there's not much options that can solve this.
Either we start controlling population growth or there's gonna be cleansing, either by viruses or world wars.....
No doubt there's organizations around the world already planning how to get rid of mass amounts of people  Grin




LOOOOOOOOOL!!  Shocked Shocked

wow, you can't be serious??
where do I even start on how to reply on your post...

ok first the part where we agree, your last sentence,

yes, there are "organizations" even states(cough* cough* USA and it's insatiable desire to use everything in their power to fulfill their totalitarian goals, just to name one - taking over oil resources around the world and in the process causing death and destruction) that are already doing and still planning how to get rid of more masses,
for example,
over the years ever wonder how new diseases/viruses magically appear(cough* are injected) and spread always on places on earth where there is usually poverty - avian flu, mad cow disease, zika virus...etc. for the  purpose to get rid of those masses.

Next...
Just because we explored every corner of the earth doesn't mean population growth is the biggest threat to humanity.
Just take a look at this picture and tell me again population growth is the biggest threat to humanity, you can't imagine how many unpopulated areas are there on the earth. You can't grasp that size and neither can I!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/World_human_population_density_map.png

Sorry but you sound ignorant if you still think population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind then and if that's not enough remember that even today there are discussions about how one day we will populate other planets as well.

this one slightly pissed me off..."Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing"
How the actual fck do you know that for a fact?
Not only do we have enough but we have way more than we will ever need, but uneven distribution of resources is something totally different and fault of the somebody else(the 1% club)
As long as nature is stable and healthy(no nuclear holocausts...etc.) the nature will have resources to provide humanity with food, water and more.

As a miner and somebody engaged in crypto world you should know better than this...


I agree with everything you said.

Glad you understand this Smiley sorry for bursting out like that.
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July 06, 2018, 02:14:25 PM
 #15

Well, the Dyson Sphere needs to come first.
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July 06, 2018, 02:30:25 PM
 #16

Population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind and earth for that matter, assuming no nuclear holocaust will happen in the near future.
It's a big problem, far bigger than most will admit, as technology advances, less and less people are needed for mankind to function normally, more automation and less jobs to go around.  
On the flip side, inhabitable corners of the earth are shrinking daily, we have drought and femine in places people used to live happy ten or twenty years back, poverty is increasing all around the globe.
You see where this is going?
In the following years we will start to see mass migrations due to uninhabitable lands and soon earth will not be able to sustains its population for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing, you can check the predicted population growth - its doesn't look good, its actually scary to say the least.
By the time we hit 2050-2060 there's gonna be huge problems, and there's not much options that can solve this.
Either we start controlling population growth or there's gonna be cleansing, either by viruses or world wars.....
No doubt there's organizations around the world already planning how to get rid of mass amounts of people  Grin




LOOOOOOOOOL!!  Shocked Shocked

wow, you can't be serious??
where do I even start on how to reply on your post...

ok first the part where we agree, your last sentence,

yes, there are "organizations" even states(cough* cough* USA and it's insatiable desire to use everything in their power to fulfill their totalitarian goals, just to name one - taking over oil resources around the world and in the process causing death and destruction) that are already doing and still planning how to get rid of more masses,
for example,
over the years ever wonder how new diseases/viruses magically appear(cough* are injected) and spread always on places on earth where there is usually poverty - avian flu, mad cow disease, zika virus...etc. for the  purpose to get rid of those masses.

Next...
Just because we explored every corner of the earth doesn't mean population growth is the biggest threat to humanity.
Just take a look at this picture and tell me again population growth is the biggest threat to humanity, you can't imagine how many unpopulated areas are there on the earth. You can't grasp that size and neither can I!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/World_human_population_density_map.png

Sorry but you sound ignorant if you still think population growth is by far the biggest threat to mankind then and if that's not enough remember that even today there are discussions about how one day we will populate other planets as well.

this one slightly pissed me off..."Unfortunately, there is not enough for everyone to go around at the rate the populations is growing"
How the actual fck do you know that for a fact?
Not only do we have enough but we have way more than we will ever need, but uneven distribution of resources is something totally different and fault of the somebody else(the 1% club)
As long as nature is stable and healthy(no nuclear holocausts...etc.) the nature will have resources to provide humanity with food, water and more.

As a miner and somebody engaged in crypto world you should know better than this...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3YF75DPGlQ
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July 07, 2018, 08:20:16 AM
 #17

 The largest problem we have right now is transportation of goods and services and climate change.
 I suppose having more energy would make it easier to refrigerate and transport food from one place to another but right now the big issue we have those two items .

 we have plenty of power for a normal human activity things such as he cooling basic transportation Etc.

 The thing is it consume most of the power currently generated of our companies like Google’s huge data centers with the redundant triple redundant backup systems department of defense huge data center is in triple backed up hard work hard firewall systems that constantly consume tons and tons of energy and I never shut off .

Also if you do some research you will find it most of the power and fuel fossil fuel consumed right now I’ll bite big transportation containers that transport goods and services for th The millions and millions of consumers in the world that need to have cars foreign goods imported systems and yes your mining system is being shipped via bit mean the air or ground or whatever .

The reason why those higher level switch civilizations need to so much power is similar to ours and is in Sam’s respect due to the fact that they have they will have computer systems so advanced and so powerful that they consume tons and tons of power just across from what they considered minor tasks such as matters such as m matter transfer  , Direct tissue repair from basically atoms,  things such as nano technology Brotz that basically do most of the tasks that we do now such as manufacturing building , etc.

 The power requirements for search technology is that So immense that we cannot even begin to fathom them right now so to make a long story short POPOW power use is a very tiny fraction of the issues that we have relating power today was the issues out tied up in transportation and production and transportation of food once that gets solved lots more power be available for things such as my knitting on POF and we can start building bigger and more powerful network systems with the excess power and cheaper  power
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July 07, 2018, 09:24:31 AM
 #18

the biggest problem on EARTH, BY FAR, BY HUGE FAR IS:

We have 3,8 bl people that gain less than 2$ a day, that obviously live in third world places were they can't get education, health care and all that, and they are desperately poor and want to migrate to other parts of the world were they can have an oportunity.

Every year, according to OMS (WHO), more than 80 million babies are born on those third world countries. The problem is that, we face a destruction on most advanced societies. Inmigration is collapsing our way of living , our services and creating huge highways of migrations towards our countries, putting in danger our way of living as well as our possibilities to offer OUR OWN PEOPLE A RESPECTABLE WAY OF LIVING.

THERE IS NO WAY migration can solve the issue. We have to help them ON THEIR OWN COUNTRIES and control very toughly those illegal inmigrations. We have to. There is no other option.

before answering, watch this:_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlSwsV7fmY

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July 07, 2018, 11:50:19 AM
 #19

the biggest problem on EARTH, BY FAR, BY HUGE FAR IS:

We have 3,8 bl people that gain less than 2$ a day, that obviously live in third world places were they can't get education, health care and all that, and they are desperately poor and want to migrate to other parts of the world were they can have an oportunity.

Every year, according to OMS (WHO), more than 80 million babies are born on those third world countries. The problem is that, we face a destruction on most advanced societies. Inmigration is collapsing our way of living , our services and creating huge highways of migrations towards our countries, putting in danger our way of living as well as our possibilities to offer OUR OWN PEOPLE A RESPECTABLE WAY OF LIVING.

THERE IS NO WAY migration can solve the issue. We have to help them ON THEIR OWN COUNTRIES and control very toughly those illegal inmigrations. We have to. There is no other option.

before answering, watch this:_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlSwsV7fmY
+1
Agree
immigration is destroying our way of living as well.
this does not looking good

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July 08, 2018, 12:23:03 PM
 #20

I disagree, immigration is only the consequence, not the problem, We must realize what and more importantly who is causing the problem which leads to immigration.

recent example,
There wouldn't be massive immigrations to Europe from Syria if certain countries/organizations wouldn't be trying to make war and sell weapons, do you wanna live in war infested country? hell, no!
Why the fuck don't they leave them alone, then there wouldn't be any immigrations anywhere...

Dissolution of Yugoslavia - at some point in history I'd dare to say most powerful country in the europe, what a carefully laid out plan that was...and at the end as a big boom let's make them hate and kill each other, good job USA, whatever you touch you turn into a warzone.
I mean who the fuck else in the world invests so much money into weapons and whatnot than fuckin' USA??
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