Transparent mining 2, or What part of Legacy should be left behind

[bitcoinpaul]

NXTs r not coins, at least the creator of Nxt didn't want them to be coins. They r tokens that grant privileges to support Nxt.

What would be the consequences for Nxt dev?

[landomata]

This would allow us to have a FIXED value e-currency which we can use for micro payments.

I won't be fixed if the issuer suddenly stops redeeming their IOU's and in if fact such IOU's will quickly become worth *nothing* - as you said the Asset can be anything including "Pirate Ponzi Coins".

FORGET IOU....I'm not even talking about IOU's.

Example: NXTMONEY is pegged at 1 USD....so everyone who has or wants to receive NXTMONEY knows that it is worth 1 USD, 1 YEN, 1 CNY for example locally in his country.

Now lets say a merchant sells some cloths for NXTMONEY he now have NXTMONEY in his account....he can then go online and buy from a supplier who accepts NXTMONEY...and so on.

The problem NOW is that NXT or BITCOIN price is always FLUCTUATING....so they don;t lend themselves to simple commerce at the corner store.



 

[CIYAM]

FORGET IOU....I'm not even talking about IOU's.

You are - but let's look at what you say "next" (pun intended).

Example: NXTMONEY is pegged at 1 USD....so everyone who has or wants to receive NXTMONEY knows that it is worth 1 USD, 1 YEN, 1 CNY for example locally in his country.

This is the problem - *how* is it *pegged*?

It can only be so if some individual or group is "guaranteeing" to accept it for 1 USD (or whatever) but if that person/group decides that they are not worth it (for whatever reason - maybe they don't have any USD left) then your *pegging* has just failed and in fact the coins are worth ZERO.

This is why they are not *actual* USDs (or whatever) - they are actually IOUs - this is EXACTLY how Ripple works.

[Hacer88]

This would allow us to have a FIXED value e-currency which we can use for micro payments.

I won't be fixed if the issuer suddenly stops redeeming their IOU's and in if fact such IOU's will quickly become worth *nothing* - as you said the Asset can be anything including "Pirate Ponzi Coins".

FORGET IOU....I'm not even talking about IOU's.

Example: NXTMONEY is pegged at 1 USD....so everyone who has or wants to receive NXTMONEY knows that it is worth 1 USD, 1 YEN, 1 CNY for example locally in his country.

Now lets say a merchant sells some cloths for NXTMONEY he now have NXTMONEY in his account....he can then go online and buy from a supplier who accepts NXTMONEY...and so on.

The problem NOW is that NXT or BITCOIN price is always FLUCTUATING....so they don;t lend themselves to simple commerce at the corner store.

Solution of retailers about the fluctuations;

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57618433-1/real-world-price-tag-tracks-shifting-bitcoin-exchange-rate/

[pandaisftw]

Nxt mining uses a deterministic lottery that grants right to mine next blocks. Time of a next block is determined by the time of the previous block and by the base target. The base target is a part of Bitcoin legacy that should be left behind, it doesn't make sense to wait when next block is mined coz we already know who will do it. And we can mine blocks at a fixed rate, for example, every 60000 ms (exactly 1 min). When Internet becomes faster we will switch to a smaller gap between blocks (10 seconds, for example).

Awesome.

Mining reward is another obsolete part. True reward for supporting Nxt network comes from services that use Nxt. Someone owns a currency exchange and mine blocks to keep his business running. Another one owns a shop and mine blocks to keep his business running. The 3rd person owns a software company that develops programs for Nxt-based services and mine blocks to keep his business running. Selfish miners (those who mine only to earn fees) should be "removed" from the system, they r not interested in success of Nxt and only want to cash-out. If a clone appears such the people will likely jump to another ship, they add very little value to Nxt. All this doesn't mean that we should get rid of fees completely, we still need them as a countermeasure against spamming.

I like this. I can't believe I didn't realize the significance of this before, but forging makes 100% more sense now. People will want to forge because a more secure network = more business for them = more profit. It encourages innovation on-top of the platform, rather than stagnating the cryptocurrency movement with 1000's of alts. Power is removed from centralized PoW pools who don't care about network health (ahem, DiscusFish) and instead transfers that power to people who actually need the platform to run smoothly and healthily as possible.

[Pouncer]

MtGox: Bitcoin Transaction Malleability bug

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html
BTC Crash!

"Note that this will also affect any other crypto-currency using the same transaction scheme as Bitcoin."
NXT not affected!!

[2Kool4Skewl]

FORGET IOU....I'm not even talking about IOU's.

You are - but let's look at what you say "next" (pun intended).

Example: NXTMONEY is pegged at 1 USD....so everyone who has or wants to receive NXTMONEY knows that it is worth 1 USD, 1 YEN, 1 CNY for example locally in his country.

This is the problem - *how* is it *pegged*?

It can only be so if some individual or group is "guaranteeing" to accept it for 1 USD (or whatever) but if that person/group decides that they are not worth it (for whatever reason) then your *pegging* has just failed and in fact the coins are worth ZERO.

This is why they are not *actual* USDs (or whatever) - they are actually IOUs - this is EXACTLY how Ripple works.

+1

[Come-from-Beyond]

edit: Or is this a terminology problem, because 'gold coins' are no coins?

Hm, looks like this is a problem with my English. BCNext's idea is that NXTs shouldn't be used as mean of exchange.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I can say I'm issuing a fiat currency backed by gold and sell the fiat currency on Nxt's AE, but who is going to make sure that I have the gold to back the fiat currency?

Nxt could have a special kind of asset backed by fixed amount of NXT.

[CIYAM]

Hm, looks like this is a problem with my English. BCNext's idea is that NXTs shouldn't be used as mean of exchange.

Ouch - so we should instead exchange things that are just IOU's in place of something that actually at least has scarcity.

Although maybe Ripple screwed up by trying to make too much out of Ripples I think that unless you have atomic cross-chain transaction support so you can trade something of *real* value (such as BTC or LTC) then this would be a disaster.

[Come-from-Beyond]

NXTs r not coins, at least the creator of Nxt didn't want them to be coins. They r tokens that grant privileges to support Nxt.

What would be the consequences for Nxt dev?

None. It's just another interpretation of the reality. Just a question of terminology.

[CIYAM]

Nxt could have a special kind of asset backed by fixed amount of NXT.

But if we aren't supposed to "trade NXT" then that wouldn't have any value then would it?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Nxt could have a special kind of asset backed by fixed amount of NXT.

But if we aren't supposed to "trade NXT" then that wouldn't have any value then would it?

The point is that we are NOT supposed to do anything, it's up to the community how to develop Nxt further.

[landomata]

FORGET IOU....I'm not even talking about IOU's.

You are - but let's look at what you say "next" (pun intended).

Example: NXTMONEY is pegged at 1 USD....so everyone who has or wants to receive NXTMONEY knows that it is worth 1 USD, 1 YEN, 1 CNY for example locally in his country.

This is the problem - *how* is it *pegged*?

It can only be so if some individual or group is "guaranteeing" to accept it for 1 USD (or whatever) but if that person/group decides that they are not worth it (for whatever reason - maybe they don't have any USD left) then your *pegging* has just failed and in fact the coins are worth ZERO.

This is why they are not *actual* USDs (or whatever) - they are actually IOUs - this is EXACTLY how Ripple works.

I have been working on a solution in my mind for a couple weeks now....I will explain it once Asset Exchange testing starts and we play around for some time....right now it's only concepts in our minds....at least I had the luxury of speaking to a PhD who has been testing the Asset Exchange for some time now but there are still black spots in my thinking.


 

[CIYAM]

I have been working on a solution in my mind for a couple weeks now....I will explain it once Asset Exchange testing starts and we play around for some time....right now it's only in our minds....at least I had the luxury of speaking to a PhD who has been testing the Asset Exchange for some time now but there are still black spots in my thinking.

Best of luck with it - but my guess is you end up with something like "Bitshares" who think that just because you call something bitUSD then it will magically be "worth" 1 USD because of it being a "prediction market".

I don't think that holds water at all nor any kind of other "pegging" unless you are talking about the kind of "pegging" that governments do (like Hong Kong's pegging of the HKD to the USD) which is not at all what I think people interested in "decentralised" solutions are looking for.

[2Kool4Skewl]

Nxt could have a special kind of asset backed by fixed amount of NXT.

But if we aren't supposed to "trade NXT" then that wouldn't have any value then would it?

The point is that we are NOT supposed to do anything, it's up to the community how to develop Nxt further.

I think it is best for NXT to have multiple purposes.

1 - As a store of value because of its scarcity.

2 - As an intermediate currency between IOUs issued on the asset exchange.

[2Kool4Skewl]

I have been working on a solution in my mind for a couple weeks now....I will explain it once Asset Exchange testing starts and we play around for some time....right now it's only in our minds....at least I had the luxury of speaking to a PhD who has been testing the Asset Exchange for some time now but there are still black spots in my thinking.

Best of luck with it - but my guess is you end up with something like "Bitshares" who think that just because you call something bitUSD then it will magically be "worth" 1 USD because of it being a "prediction market".

I don't think that holds water at all nor any kind of other "pegging" unless you are talking about the kind of "pegging" that governments do (like Hong Kong's pegging of the HKD to the USD) which is not at all what I think people interested in "decentralised" solutions are looking for.

+1

Any type of "pegging" is centralization.  This is the antithesis of Nxt's ideology.

[bitcoinpaul]

Nxt could have a special kind of asset backed by fixed amount of NXT.

But if we aren't supposed to "trade NXT" then that wouldn't have any value then would it?

The point is that we are NOT supposed to do anything, it's up to the community how to develop Nxt further.

Let me rephrase his question:

If we don't "trade NXT" then that wouldn't have any value then would it?

[CIYAM]

I think it is best for NXT to have multiple purposes.

1 - As a store of value because of it's scarcity.

2 - As an intermediate currency between IOUs issued on the asset exchange.

I agree (and had always thought that was the intention).

The mistake that Ripple made was to make all the statements about Ripples just being "postage stamps" and having no real value and then suddenly hyping their value after launching and giving away "coins" (a small percentage). If they had been more honest about it in the first place people would not have been so turned off by it and so far I think Nxt has been far more honest (so no need to go and do the "reverse" of Ripple).

[landomata]

+1

Any type of "pegging" is centralization.  This is the antithesis of Nxt's ideology.

Pegging INSIDE the NXT ASSET EXCHANGE would be Decentralized....as I said I need real time with the Asset Exchange to take my solution forward.