Transparent mining 2, or What part of Legacy should be left behind

[Isildur23]

NXTs as coins... NXTs r not coins, at least the creator of Nxt didn't want them to be coins. They r tokens that grant privileges to support Nxt. Deflation is not much better than inflation, "real" coins should be created on top of Nxt and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant. BCNext understands that this is very arguable, the community should decide if it wants to follow the path showed by him or stick to Bitcoin legacy with unchangeable supply of coins in hope to become rich by doing nothing.

@Come-from-Beyond, I am not sure if I understand this right. I see to possible interpretations:

1st:
BCnext doesn't want the price of nxt to rise (i find this unlogical because even if we issue coins backed by Nxt, the value of Nxt will still rise even if we issue more and more of them. The value of those coins will not rise.

2nd:
BCnext means that we shouldn't just hold Nxts and wait until their price rises, but rather we should make services and develop businesses on top of Nxt in order to support Nxt and consequently it's price will grow.

Or neither of them? Sorry, i wish i didn't care about price, but i do, if it rises i would be able to start a business connected with nxt, work from home and don't see much people, be part of the revolution and see how banks' revenue is crashing. I hope this doesnt sound too bad.

BCNext created a platform to build economy on. We use NXT as coins but BCNext planned that "money" will be built on top of Nxt core. Anyway it doesn't really matter what he wants, Nxt will evolve the way the community wants it to evolve. I wouldn't pay much attention to BCNext's plans.

But isn't this the natural way for things to happen? I mean it's not like following somebody's plans. It will happen naturally, big businesses will be built on top of Nxt and they will take care of it and supprot it with forging, while fees will be lowered and there won't be people who forge "for the sake of forging". Coins will be issued backed by Nxt and will play the role of means of exchnage, but Nxt will still be something like a reserve currency. I thought this evolution was inevitable. Is this what BCnext meant or i didn't understand it?

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[Come-from-Beyond]

But isn't this the natural way for things to happen? I mean it's not like following somebody's plans. It will happen naturally, big businesses will be built on top of Nxt and they will take care of it and supprot it with forging, while fees will be lowered and there won't be people who forge "for the sake of forging". Coins will be issued backed by Nxt and will play the role of means of exchnage, but Nxt will still be something like a reserve currency. I thought this evolution was inevitable. Is this what BCnext meant or i didn't understand it?

Seems u r right.

[bitcoinpaul]

NXTs as coins... NXTs r not coins, at least the creator of Nxt didn't want them to be coins. They r tokens that grant privileges to support Nxt. Deflation is not much better than inflation, "real" coins should be created on top of Nxt and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant. BCNext understands that this is very arguable, the community should decide if it wants to follow the path showed by him or stick to Bitcoin legacy with unchangeable supply of coins in hope to become rich by doing nothing.

@Come-from-Beyond, I am not sure if I understand this right. I see to possible interpretations:

1st:
BCnext doesn't want the price of nxt to rise (i find this unlogical because even if we issue coins backed by Nxt, the value of Nxt will still rise even if we issue more and more of them. The value of those coins will not rise.

2nd:
BCnext means that we shouldn't just hold Nxts and wait until their price rises, but rather we should make services and develop businesses on top of Nxt in order to support Nxt and consequently it's price will grow.

Or neither of them? Sorry, i wish i didn't care about price, but i do, if it rises i would be able to start a business connected with nxt, work from home and don't see much people, be part of the revolution and see how banks' revenue is crashing. I hope this doesnt sound too bad.

BCNext created a platform to build economy on. We use NXT as coins but BCNext planned that "money" will be built on top of Nxt core. Anyway it doesn't really matter what he wants, Nxt will evolve the way the community wants it to evolve. I wouldn't pay much attention to BCNext's plans.

But isn't this the natural way for things to happen? I mean it's not like following somebody's plans. It will happen naturally, big businesses will be built on top of Nxt and they will take care of it and supprot it with forging, while fees will be lowered and there won't be people who forge "for the sake of forging". Coins will be issued backed by Nxt and will play the role of means of exchnage, but Nxt will still be something like a reserve currency. I thought this evolution was inevitable. Is this what BCnext meant or i didn't understand it?

That is my understanding, too. And CfB said something similar also, I think (coins for currency, NXT for value)

[landomata]

BCNext created a platform to build economy on. We use NXT as coins but BCNext planned that "money" will be built on top of Nxt core. Anyway it doesn't really matter what he wants, Nxt will evolve the way the community wants it to evolve. I wouldn't pay much attention to BCNext's plans.

But isn't this the natural way for things to happen? I mean it's not like following somebody's plans. It will happen naturally, big businesses will be built on top of Nxt and they will take care of it and supprot it with forging, while fees will be lowered and there won't be people who forge "for the sake of forging". Coins will be issued backed by Nxt and will play the role of means of exchnage, but Nxt will still be something like a reserve currency. I thought this evolution was inevitable. Is this what BCnext meant or i didn't understand it?

That is my understanding, too. And CfB said something similar also, I think (coins for currency, NXT for value)

Actually the Nxt ecosystem is what gives value....that's why the price in fiat terms doesn't matter.

These businesses and services all exist inside the Nxt ecosystem....the stronger the ecosystem the more valuable it becomes.

[Come-from-Beyond]

That is my understanding, too. And CfB said something similar also, I think (coins for currency, NXT for value)

NXT itself is backed by power to influence on the whole system. If u own 1M NXT then u'll forge each 1000th block. And u can charge fiat money for inclusion transactions into blocks.

[bitcoinpaul]

Actually the Nxt ecosystem is what gives value....that's why the price in fiat terms doesn't matter.

Wait, what? When Assets are backed by and bought with NXT, NXT will have a value in fiat terms because of these assets and vice versa.

Or do you think the fiat world ends in the next months?

[sepehr]

Hi BCNext and everybody,

IMHO, The problem with Nxt is that the person have more Nxt receives the transaction fees.
But it is not fair!
We should pay the fee to the server and peer hosts and administrators directly.

I'm deep in Nxt but by the way don't doubt to invest on a coin that considers the above fair paradigm.

Thanks,
Sepehr

[Come-from-Beyond]

That is my understanding, too. And CfB said something similar also, I think (coins for currency, NXT for value)

NXT itself is backed by power to influence on the whole system. If u own 1M NXT then u'll forge each 1000th block. And u can charge fiat money for inclusion transactions into blocks.

I'd like to add that this "power" is very valuable. If u forge the next block u decide what orders to include into it. And this decision will change the market.

NXT -> Power -> Ability to change the world

[Come-from-Beyond]

But it is not fair!

What r u talking about? Nxt offers the most fair way.

[landomata]

Actually the Nxt ecosystem is what gives value....that's why the price in fiat terms doesn't matter.

Wait, what? When Assets are backed by and bought with NXT, NXT will have a value in fiat terms because of these assets and vice versa.

Or do you think the fiat world ends in the next months?

I am saying the Nxt ecosystem has value no matter whether it is priced in USD or GOLD or WHEAT or some other currency not yet created...if it survives and continues to grow it will have intrinsic value.

Like the Internet.


 

[CIYAM]

I'd like to add that this "power" is very valuable. If u forge the next block u decide what orders to include into it. And this decision will change the market.

Actually this is something that concerns me far more than the initial distribution or the PoS reward for forging.

If AE bid/ask tx's can be arbitrarily included or not in a block then I can see a lot of manipulation occurring in this part of the system (another reason that I am not really hooked on the whole AE thing).

This of course could be compounded by huge stake holders "colluding" to say hold back orders.

[landomata]

I'd like to add that this "power" is very valuable. If u forge the next block u decide what orders to include into it. And this decision will change the market.

Actually this is something that concerns me far more than the initial distribution or the PoS reward for forging.

If AE bid/ask tx's can be arbitrarily included or not in a block then I can see a lot of manipulation occurring in this part of the system (another reason that I am not really hooked on the whole AE thing).

You can;t just arbitrarily block inclusion into blocks...the only way is if someone one out bids you in tx fee....and if they do you can wait for the next block which can be only the next second.

or am I missing something.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Actually this is something that concerns me far more than the initial distribution or the PoS reward for forging.

If AE bid/ask tx's can be arbitrarily included or not in a block then I can see a lot of manipulation occurring in this part of the system (another reason that I am not really hooked on the whole AE thing).

This of course could be compounded by huge stake holders "colluding" to say hold back orders.

Luckily Nxt can't provide HFT so we shouldn't worry much. Time critical trades will still be done off-chain.

[CIYAM]

You can;t just arbitrarily block inclusion into blocks...the only way is if someone one out bids you in tx fee....and if they do you can wait for the next block which can be only the next second.

I am pretty sure you can decide which txs you are going to include in your block - the fee is simply to encourage to include as many as you can but if you don't want to include one or more particular txs (and instead include others) then I don't think anything can stop you.

Of course TF does help and it is likely such txs would get included in a following block, but, if we are talking about "matching an order" then a forger could simply include their own tx in preference to another (meaning that you might have just "missed out" on your buy/sell to that forger even if your tx was actually broadcast *first*).

[CIYAM]

Luckily Nxt can't provide HFT so we shouldn't worry much. Time critical trades will still be done off-chain.

Which then begs the question if all "time critical" trades are going to end up being off-chain (therefore centralised) what exactly is the huge benefit of even having the AE?

(sorry to be so negative about AE but I am still struggling to see why it "so great")

[Come-from-Beyond]

Luckily Nxt can't provide HFT so we shouldn't worry much. Time critical trades will still be done off-chain.

Which then begs the question if all "time critical" trades are going to end up being off-chain (therefore centralised) what exactly is the huge benefit of even having the AE?

Maybe non-critical ones?

[CIYAM]

Maybe non-critical ones?

And this is something that makes me wonder about the value of the AE. If we aren't going to trust it for "time-critical" trades (which would be pretty much *all* trades if you are a day trader) then what exactly are these *important* but non-time critical trades that it is needed for?

(some concrete examples would be very helpful here)

[Come-from-Beyond]

And this is something that makes me wonder about the value of the AE. If we aren't going to trust it for "time-critical" trades (which would be pretty much *all* trades if you are a day trader) then what exactly are these *important* but non-time critical trades that it is needed for?

(some concrete examples would be very helpful here)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455861

[landomata]

Maybe non-critical ones?

And this is something that makes me wonder about the value of the AE. If we aren't going to trust it for "time-critical" trades (which would be pretty much *all* trades if you are a day trader) then what exactly are these *important* but non-time critical trades that it is needed for?

(some concrete examples would be very helpful here)

Time-critical is subjective....60 seconds can be time-critical....it all depends on the pace of the market.

[sepehr]

But it is not fair!

What r u talking about? Nxt offers the most fair way.

It's more fair if we pay the transaction fees directly to server operators.