New Mt Gox Press Release - Feb 10 - they are claiming flaw in bitcoin protocol !

[Brangdon]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but is this true? The TX ID can be modified and re-broadcast to effectively double-spend?

It's not true. Both versions of the transaction will have the same inputs, outputs and amounts; they are two different ways of expressing the same transaction, and only one will be accepted by the network, so there is no double-spend. No-one should care which version of the transaction gets accepted. (MtGox did care, and that's their mistake.)

[LiteCoinGuy]

[njcarlos]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but is this true? The TX ID can be modified and re-broadcast to effectively double-spend?

It's not true. Both versions of the transaction will have the same inputs, outputs and amounts; they are two different ways of expressing the same transaction, and only one will be accepted by the network, so there is no double-spend. No-one should care which version of the transaction gets accepted. (MtGox did care, and that's their mistake.)

I think my point was that there is not real utility in allowing a TX ID to be modified. I'd be open to hearing what I might be overlooking but at face value it seems like a very poor decision in design.

[njcarlos]

Why is a year old bug not addressed in code? Are we really relying on wikis to maintain this protocol?

[DooMAD]

*pic*

Why is a year old bug not addressed in code? Are we really relying on wikis to maintain this protocol?

We're not, it was fixed years ago by the bitcoin devs and every other exchange on the face of the planet kept up to date, but gox were shit and useless and didn't bother.  They used their own crappy code and fucked it up.  End of story.

[Draino]

I'm sure at this point they realize that but are going to "punish" the community (and by extension the core developers) by suspending withdrawals until it's fixed. As "trendy" as it is to blame Gox, there's enough blame to go around to both the developers and Gox. Mistakes on both sides that have cost many people a lot of money.

If that's the case, I'd hope that the core developers would continue working on Bitcoin's problem with scaling, and not escalate the malleability thing much at all.  It sucks for the users of gox, but I think that's a lesson many of us have learned through bitcoin-- don't trust your money to a third party willy-nilly-- and particularly not one with a track-record of incompetence (especially one with no clear redeeming qualities).  Perhaps a lawsuit and pursuit of any applicable criminal penalties will ease the gox customers's suffering.

[FrictionlessCoin]

In an instance like this, the statement from Gox had to have been approved by the CEO. Also, he must have known the exact consequences the statement's release would have on the market.  I guess, let the conspiracy theories begin but I would love to have a Gox insider give some insight as to what the decision process was. And also who outside of Gox was in on the action? Hey, maybe the Fed offered to bail them out if they agreed to try and crash the market.

This is equivalent to the head of the NY Stock exchange saying on a monday morning before the market opening that every stock exchange has a significant flaw and hence they alone will not open. Further that they will freeze every trader's funds. Of course the BTC market is mostly self-policing.... That MF pissed off a lot of people today (and by no means the first or last time). Perhaps one day he will piss off the wrong people.

MtGox has been short BTC for a very long time.  Almost every major BTC crash was because of Mt Gox.

[hilariousandco]

*pic*

Why is a year old bug not addressed in code? Are we really relying on wikis to maintain this protocol?

We're not, it was fixed years ago by the bitcoin devs and every other exchange on the face of the planet kept up to date, but gox were shit and useless and didn't bother.  End of story.

Yeah, this is gox's fault entirely. Mark needs to be kicked out of the foundation for the damage he's causing Bitcoin.

[dorobotsdream]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but is this true? The TX ID can be modified and re-broadcast to effectively double-spend?

It's not true. Both versions of the transaction will have the same inputs, outputs and amounts; they are two different ways of expressing the same transaction, and only one will be accepted by the network, so there is no double-spend. No-one should care which version of the transaction gets accepted. (MtGox did care, and that's their mistake.)

I think this txid mutability doesn't cause double-spend by itself. But if the sender (i.e. Mt. Gox) thinks (erroneously) the coins didn't arrive because they didn't see the txid and somebody complained and they did the spend again, then it depends. If the sending address still holds enough coin, or if they use a different address then the sender does a double-spend. It could be that somebody acquired knowledge of their accounting flaw and used it to their advantage.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but is this true? The TX ID can be modified and re-broadcast to effectively double-spend?

It's not true. Both versions of the transaction will have the same inputs, outputs and amounts; they are two different ways of expressing the same transaction, and only one will be accepted by the network, so there is no double-spend. No-one should care which version of the transaction gets accepted. (MtGox did care, and that's their mistake.)

I think this txid mutability doesn't cause double-spend by itself. But if the sender (i.e. Mt. Gox) thinks (erroneously) the coins didn't arrive because they didn't see the txid and somebody complained and they did the spend again, then it depends. If the sending address still holds enough coin, or if they use a different address then the sender does a double-spend. It could be that somebody acquired knowledge of their accounting flaw and used it to their advantage.

This is just poor bookeeping on Mt.Gox side.

If 5 BTC is sent from address X to address Y,  then it will be permanently on record in the block chain.  Does not matter which TXID was used.

[g0re79]

Recently released MtGox´s statement at https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html is largest pile of BS FUD I ever saw - does anybody actually believe them? No reference to anyone from BitCoin devs, no proof of anything, just bullcrap. They picked up (or made up, whatever) minor, hardly achievable and easilly trackable flaw and build a story around it, which in the end sounds to me like arguing that someone with time machine can pause time and rob Your pockets meanwhile.. They fucked up badly with their amateurish coding sklills, thats all. And the most horrible about theese sick fucks is that they are trying to drag whole cryptoscene to hell with them, as they know this is theirs end:

Note that this will also affect any other crypto-currency using the same transaction scheme as Bitcoin.

Pricks..

[nosf009]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but is this true? The TX ID can be modified and re-broadcast to effectively double-spend?

It's not true. Both versions of the transaction will have the same inputs, outputs and amounts; they are two different ways of expressing the same transaction, and only one will be accepted by the network, so there is no double-spend. No-one should care which version of the transaction gets accepted. (MtGox did care, and that's their mistake.)

+10000
If someone's core business is financial, and with all things aside, exchange is that;
why in hell would you be so stupid and not fucking store transactions in a way that nobody can fuck you over? Retoric.
Now, this basically means it's time for amateurs to step off this crypto train, and make room for some capable people to step in.
As much as I'm sorry to see that such human stupidity can ruin BTC market image and status and hurt so many people financially, GOX has to die off unless they show any signs of IQ, and that would even have to be at WARP 9.9 speed in these conditions for anyone to start back even remotely putting faith back at them.

Sure, it may look like this thread is bunch of FUD at first glance, but the basic technological problem here is so simple that for such amounts of money involved (and I'm talking about profit alone on trading) only retards, forgive me for saying like that, would do what these people do. And it has nothing to do with anyone in universe except the MtGox. It's 100% their shit. Period.

[nosf009]

Now, can somebody hack their news CMS so we can modify the statement?

[FrictionlessCoin]

Recently released MtGox´s statement at https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html is largest pile of BS FUD I ever saw - does anybody actually believe them? No reference to anyone from BitCoin devs, no proof of anything, just bullcrap. They picked up (or made up, whatever) minor, hardly achievable and easilly trackable flaw and build a story around it, which in the end sounds to me like arguing that someone with time machine can pause time and rob Your pockets meanwhile.. They fucked up badly with their amateurish coding sklills, thats all. And the most horrible about theese sick fucks is that they are trying to drag whole cryptoscene to hell with them, as they know this is theirs end:

Note that this will also affect any other crypto-currency using the same transaction scheme as Bitcoin.

Pricks..

They are trying to come up with any plausible excuse to prevent a massive bank run.

The question I have is,  if this is a Bitcoin problem, then why are there also delays for withdrawing USD?

[CoinShovel]

How can we get MT Gox stripped from the Bitcoin Foundation along with it's CEO, Mark Karpeles?

This is doing tremendous damage to the community and they're still plastered all over the face of the Foundation that is supposed to be helping the community grow.

[Mikellev]

One exchange after another is "upgrading" their btc wallets ? With what ?

I cant find anythin official https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master .....

[nosf009]

Recently released MtGox´s statement at https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html is largest pile of BS FUD I ever saw - does anybody actually believe them? No reference to anyone from BitCoin devs, no proof of anything, just bullcrap. They picked up (or made up, whatever) minor, hardly achievable and easilly trackable flaw and build a story around it, which in the end sounds to me like arguing that someone with time machine can pause time and rob Your pockets meanwhile.. They fucked up badly with their amateurish coding sklills, thats all. And the most horrible about theese sick fucks is that they are trying to drag whole cryptoscene to hell with them, as they know this is theirs end:

Note that this will also affect any other crypto-currency using the same transaction scheme as Bitcoin.

Pricks..

They are trying to come up with any plausible excuse to prevent a massive bank run.

The question I have is,  if this is a Bitcoin problem, then why are there also delays for withdrawing USD?

Because that yacht and expensive hoes cost soo much, and also are appealing to the (not only) eye, so, enjoy while you can?
Kidding. Ofc, it's about delaying doom.

And yes, community should strike back hard and with no compromise, fuck them off, and continue. Help the fellow crypto guys who got their money fucked by putting a large pressure on them and cut off that cancer once for all. Why so harsh? Because if there was no statement that's more or less insult to our IQ, we could talk, but this seems like they don't much give a F for community, so why should we give back anything but FUD and bad stuff? Simple.

[Rannasha]

This is just poor bookeeping on Mt.Gox side.

This is exactly what it is. Poor bookkeeping, nothing more, nothing less.

[WesandEAC]

Hehe so fellas, here we have Mt Gox blaming the core development team even though the problem was well documented in 2011

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability

And then after blaming them, they ask for help to adopt their proposal which clearly is an undefined rendition of what the rest of the community is doing because no other exchange has any problem and are operating just fine.  

I see this as the chess pieces being stacked to make a sacrifice and cut Gox loose, they could use the excuse that the core team did not want to help them.  Good try but we see the play pretty clearly here hehe.  I am sure from Mark's perspective he feels right and just.  However he is wrong

By some miracle the tightly knit community may come together and fix this as there has never been a phenomenon of people working together as is occurs in the Bitcoin World to my knowledge - that is the only mitigating factor.  Good luck everyone.

[yatsey87]

How can we get MT Gox stripped from the Bitcoin Foundation along with it's CEO, Mark Karpeles?

This is doing tremendous damage to the community and they're still plastered all over the face of the Foundation that is supposed to be helping the community grow.

Keep protesting and demanding he resign or be booted out.