Silk road

[CliffordM]

What do folk think about the silk road?  How many know how to get there via the Tor network?  Whilst it's main business is primarily illegal, I do think that it is a very important proving ground for bit coin.

[mjcmurfy]

It's just another underground forum, the purpose of which is the distribution of illegal goods. There are many others like it. It's only special because it uses bitcoin as the means of payment. So it is much more advanced in that regard.

They also have a hedging feature, so if you want to sell something, and don't want the hassle of shifts in the value of btc:usd exchange, you can hedge your account in USD so if btc price rises, you have less btc but same USD, and likewise, if price reduces, you have more btc but same USD value.

The only reason it is important in providing an economic backdrop for bitcoin is that the majority of legal trade websites are not using bitcoin yet. Once it does, SR's "value" to the bitcoin economy will be much less significant.

[DonnyCMU]

They also have a hedging feature, so if you want to sell something, and don't want the hassle of shifts in the value of btc:usd exchange, you can hedge your account in USD so if btc price rises, you have less btc but same USD, and likewise, if price reduces, you have more btc but same USD value.

Interesting... So.. the site holds a balance, in bitcoins, for each buyer, and if the buyer hedge his account and..... how does it work? The SR automatically do the trading? Trade against who? How did the user get more btc if the price drop?

[joeyjoe]

They also have a hedging feature, so if you want to sell something, and don't want the hassle of shifts in the value of btc:usd exchange, you can hedge your account in USD so if btc price rises, you have less btc but same USD, and likewise, if price reduces, you have more btc but same USD value.

Interesting... So.. the site holds a balance, in bitcoins, for each buyer, and if the buyer hedge his account and..... how does it work? The SR automatically do the trading? Trade against who? How did the user get more btc if the price drop?

you upload a balance, people name their prices, you pay. many will ask you release the funds early due to the deflation.

[oOoOo]

I think the fewer people know about S/R the better. We don't want Bitcoin to be associated with illegal activity, it might drive away legitimate business.
.

[Gabi]

I think the fewer people know about S/R the better. We don't want Bitcoin to be associated with illegal activity, it might drive away legitimate business.
.

Like no one use dollars and euros cause they are used for illegal things?

[CliffordM]

I think the fewer people know about S/R the better. We don't want Bitcoin to be associated with illegal activity, it might drive away legitimate business.
.

Like no one use dollars and euros cause they are used for illegal things?

There is a dichotomy about whether the silk road should be brushed under the carpet.  Frankly, illegal or not, I think these things are better in the open.  It is certainly more bitcoinish to be open and upfront about these things.

And don't forget, a lot of the best parts of the modern world have their roots in less than legal practices.  Look at medicine ...

[David M]

I am a big fan of the Silk Road.   

It is funny that it took a 21st Century technology to give us what we had 4,000 years ago.
The historical context should be not be ignored and highlights the restriction of trade that modern sovereign government have thrown at us.

On a side note:

I have been tracking the price of illegal drugs in Australia for 20 years. 

This is what I have found:  (All figures adjusted for inflation - 1990 -> 2011)
CP = Current Price

Marijuana:  Up 22%  ~ CP =  AUD $200-300 per oz:  The only reason I can give for this increase, is the use of thermal imaging to detect crops from aerial reconnaissance -> Increased grower risk. 

Cocaine:  This is a strange one.  From 1990 -> 2000, the price dropped 38% as the cost per gram remained constant for the entire decade. 
              From 2000 -> 2010 prices rose 85%.  ~ CP = AUD $350-$400 per gram.

MDMA: Down 35% (Only 15 years of data) -> Increasing Usage and Popularity
Speed: Up 15% -> Decreasing Usage and Popularity

When looking for arbitrage opportunities, the big one is cocaine.  The current price of cocaine in Australia is 300% more than the current price on Silk Road.

My guess is that in 5 years the price of cocaine in Australia will fall at least 50% as local dealers are squeezed by the Silk Road.  Ain't competition grand?

[DonnyCMU]

They also have a hedging feature, so if you want to sell something, and don't want the hassle of shifts in the value of btc:usd exchange, you can hedge your account in USD so if btc price rises, you have less btc but same USD, and likewise, if price reduces, you have more btc but same USD value.

Interesting... So.. the site holds a balance, in bitcoins, for each buyer, and if the buyer hedge his account and..... how does it work? The SR automatically do the trading? Trade against who? How did the user get more btc if the price drop?

you upload a balance, people name their prices, you pay. many will ask you release the funds early due to the deflation.

I meant how do they do the hedging to keep keep the account value in USD the same after you upload some bitcoins. This could be useful in other scenarios where user don't want to deal with the swing in bitcoin prices.

[BitcoinPorn]

Interesting to see this thread after seeing this post on /r/Bitcoin
"RoBoTs, a group of drug dealers, has threatened that they compromised several exchanges databases. In an attempt to stop day trading."

http://pastebin.com/0Yi7PBeT

Code:

   ..............
   .            .
O--.  O      o  .--O
   .            .
   .   /\/\/\   .
   .............. (We spent more time reading books then doing ascii art)
       RoBoTs
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

  We are an anonymous assemblage of black market pharmacist who use bitcoin. 
We have recently united our ongoing efforts to stop day trading and the 
commodification of bitcoin. If you have bought any our products, you have already 
contributed to the cause, and we thank you.

  We have paid for several elaborate attacks against many bitcoin sites which
day traders rely on, and we have comprised the databases of several more and we
believe these sites do not yet know. We are able to do this because of our vast
bitcoin reserves which allow us to buy anything from private information, DDOS,
stolen databases or even complete dismantling of a website. The amount of bitcoins
we have to spend on offensive security will surely overcome even the most expensive
information security budgets. 

 We know where the day traders lurk, we know who they are but you know nothing 
about us. We will continue to dismantle day trading, crash the economy and 
stabilize the price for merchants and you won't even know who did it. 

 Bitcoin is ours, it may not have been made specifically for us but we have finally
united and we plan to make it ours by ending the commodification. 

With Love,
RoBoT~PaRtY

Not so interesting, some guy asking to buy ritalin with Bitcoin

[fivebells]

Interesting to see this thread after seeing this post on /r/Bitcoin

  They're full of shit.

[Rassah]

One, they are likely full of shit.
Two, it's nice to see someone so invested and committed in Bitcoin, and willing to fight to protect it and support its value. (Even if they are likely full of shit) Sad they don't know enough about markets to understand that day trading isn't the issue.

[BitcoinPorn]

I hope they are full of shit and not just young and ignorant.

[sadpandatech]

I am a big fan of the Silk Road.   

It is funny that it took a 21st Century technology to give us what we had 4,000 years ago.
The historical context should be not be ignored and highlights the restriction of trade that modern sovereign government have thrown at us.

On a side note:

I have been tracking the price of illegal drugs in Australia for 20 years. 

This is what I have found:  (All figures adjusted for inflation - 1990 -> 2011)
CP = Current Price

Marijuana:  Up 22%  ~ CP =  AUD $200-300 per oz:  The only reason I can give for this increase, is the use of thermal imaging to detect crops from aerial reconnaissance -> Increased grower risk. 

Cocaine:  This is a strange one.  From 1990 -> 2000, the price dropped 38% as the cost per gram remained constant for the entire decade. 
              From 2000 -> 2010 prices rose 85%.  ~ CP = AUD $350-$400 per gram.

MDMA: Down 35% (Only 15 years of data) -> Increasing Usage and Popularity
Speed: Up 15% -> Decreasing Usage and Popularity

When looking for arbitrage opportunities, the big one is cocaine.  The current price of cocaine in Australia is 300% more than the current price on Silk Road.

My guess is that in 5 years the price of cocaine in Australia will fall at least 50% as local dealers are squeezed by the Silk Road.  Ain't competition grand?

Wha, no Opiates in Australia? And the prices there are atleast 2x what they are in the US. (and read closer to a 'drug enforcement' price list even for AUD) And I would highly advise hedging against cocaine over the next five years. My money would be on the Opiates as the demand has gone up over the past few years and is still trending in that direction.

Interesting info none the less.

[BitcoinPorn]

How many bitcoins to illegally import a koala from Australia to USA? I can probably get high just off of hugging those things all day! 

I swear I've mentioned it before, but who wouldn't want a Silk Road type service for rare and exotic animals?

Screw what mother earth says as far as what animals should live where, I want to have a koala as a pet.  And a panda too.   Drug dealers are known for buying exotic wildlife, in all honesty is this black market already on TOR and I just haven't looked hard enough?

[David M]

Wha, no Opiates in Australia?

Australia produces 50% of the worlds legal poppy crop and has been grown in Tasmania for 30 years.
The "street" price has been constant because of that.

[julz]

How many bitcoins to illegally import a koala from Australia to USA? I can probably get high just off of hugging those things all day! 

I swear I've mentioned it before, but who wouldn't want a Silk Road type service for rare and exotic animals?

Screw what mother earth says as far as what animals should live where, I want to have a koala as a pet.  And a panda too.   Drug dealers are known for buying exotic wildlife, in all honesty is this black market already on TOR and I just haven't looked hard enough?

I swear you're a thoughtless motormouth at best, and probably a psychopath.  
Bad enough that you don't give a shit about the planet or the suffering of individual animals.. but what have you got against bitcoin?

To even mention this on a day when other people (you know - ones who *have* consciences) are talking about increasing bitcoin adoption by dovetailing in with the #occupywallst event - just smacks of sabotage.   A very large slice of the #occupywallst type would run a mile from bitcoin if there were evidence of a wildlife smuggling market enabled by bitcoin at this stage. 

Look - this sort of thing and worse will come, and it's no more bitcoin's fault than it is that of traditional cash.. but WTF is your beef with the effort to promote bitcoin in positive light such that you would actively seek and/or talk about this shit now?

Yeah.. free speech and all.. say what you want.. but get a sense of timing

[Rassah]

I was kinda kidding about the whole buying koalas with bitcoins thing, even if they are adorably cute. Not sure if gtcporn was, but still, no need to get worked up about it.

[julz]

Yeah.. I'm just throwing slaps now while it's just a comment in a hopefully obscure thread.
I get that it just starts as a joke.
BTCP is as an easy slap target I guess because his mouth seems to take things and run a bit... diarrhoea like. 

[repentance]

Wha, no Opiates in Australia?

Australia produces 50% of the worlds legal poppy crop and has been grown in Tasmania for 30 years.
The "street" price has been constant because of that.

It's also relatively easy to get hold of legitimately prescribed opiates through the black market here at a fairly low price.

The whole cocaine thing was weird though.  It virtually disappeared as a drug of choice here for about 15 years and has only recently main a comeback in popularity.  It's still nowhere near as popular as other illegal stimulants which probably has a lot to do with its high price/short duration.  Crack never really took off here so we've never had low cost cocaine available and there are plenty of other cheap, long-acting stimulants out there for the party all night brigade.

Hash and hash oil have also pretty much disappeared from the market here over the last couple of decades even though they commanded a high price twenty years ago.

And anyone who wants a koala is nuts.  Not only are they hard to care for in captivity due to their limited dietary range, they're nasty fuckers when they get pissed off.