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Author Topic: Contrary to Mt.Gox’s Statement, Bitcoin is not at fault - Gavin Andresen 10/2/14  (Read 12962 times)
Mowcore
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February 10, 2014, 04:47:56 PM
Last edit: February 12, 2014, 09:52:58 AM by Mowcore
 #1

Official response regarding the shenanigans at Mt. Gox from our chum Gavin Andresen.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=418

Quote
The issues that Mt. Gox has been experiencing are due to an unfortunate interaction between Mt. Gox’s implementation of their highly customized wallet software, their customer support procedures, and their unpreparedness for transaction malleability, a technical detail that allows changes to the way transactions are identified.

Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011. In simplest of terms, it is a small window where transaction ID’s can be “renamed” before being confirmed in the blockchain. This is something that cannot be corrected overnight. Therefore, any company dealing with Bitcoin transactions and have coded their own wallet software should responsibly prepare for this possibility and include in their software a way to validate transaction ID’s. Otherwise, it can result in Bitcoin loss and headache for everyone involved.

The Bitcoin core development team has worked to limit transaction malleability. There is broad agreement in the community that this needs to be eliminated. Finding the best and most responsible solution will take time. In the meantime, users of the reference implementation do not need to be concerned. Transactions are always tracked properly by the Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind software.

This is a good reminder that Bitcoin is still young and experimental. There are best practices to think about and account for by those who want to build companies. To help improve both the reference implementation and third party software, the Foundation is committed to working with companies to produce best practices to help improve software.

There has been an update on this matter from Gavin Andresen - Feb 11 2014:-

Update on Transaction Malleability - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=422

Quote
You may have noticed that some exchanges have temporarily suspended withdrawals and wondering what’s going on or more importantly, what’s being done about it. You can be rest assured that we have identified the issue and are collectively and collaboratively working on a solution.
 
Somebody (or several somebodies) is taking advantage of the transaction malleability issue and relaying mutated versions of transactions. This is exposing bugs in both the reference implementation and some exchange’s software.
 
We (core dev team, developers at the exchanges, and even big mining pools) are creating workarounds and fixes right now. This is a denial-of-service attack; whoever is doing this is not stealing coins, but is succeeding in preventing some transactions from confirming. It’s important to note that DoS attacks do not affect people’s bitcoin wallets or funds.
 
Users of the reference implementation who are bitten by this bug may see their bitcoins “tied up” in unconfirmed transactions; we need to update the software to fix that bug, so when they upgrade those coins are returned to the wallet and are available to spend again. Only users who make multiple transactions in a short period of time will be affected.
 
As a result, exchanges are temporarily suspending withdrawals to protect customer funds and prevent funds from being misdirected.
 
Thanks for your patience. Follow us @BTCFoundation for updates as we learn more and make progress.

Here is a post another forum member started in Press regarding this update:-  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=461125.0

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February 10, 2014, 04:52:40 PM
 #2

Official statement regarding the shenanigans at Mt. Gox from our chum Gavin Andresen.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/

Quote
*snip*
the Foundation is committed to working with companies to produce best practices to help improve software.

This is highly ironic, with Mark being a board member...  Grin

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February 10, 2014, 04:54:51 PM
 #3

Of course their wacky php custom wallet is not the problem, it's bitcoin's problem. Anybody remember MagicalTux's custom php ssh shitshow he posted to his blog? He doesn't understand rolling your own crypto (or raw transactions) leads to doom if you don't know what your'e doing. http://blog.magicaltux.net/2010/06/27/php-can-do-anything-what-about-some-ssh/

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February 10, 2014, 04:57:07 PM
 #4

Pretty sure this needs to get addressed sooner than later.

I realize some things take time, but two years to fix a known bug is a wee bit excessive.

-B-

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February 10, 2014, 05:08:20 PM
 #5

Pretty sure this needs to get addressed sooner than later.

I realize some things take time, but two years to fix a known bug is a wee bit excessive.
One could argue if this even remotely classifies as a "bug". It's not a problem whatsoever, if people wouldn't be so stupid to invent their own processing verification rules like MtGox did.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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February 10, 2014, 05:13:57 PM
 #6

The Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin to maintain the reference Bitcoin client.
Peter Vessenes is the Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation, and the Founder of CoinLab.
MtGox (Mark Karpeles) is also a member of the Bitcoin Foundation.
Over the past 18 months or so, Gavin made a lot of changes to the Bitcoin protocol in a relatively short amount of time, including forcing a hard fork.  Many observers noted at the time that this was unwise.
CoinLab and MtGox are involved in some sort of lawsuit involving an agreement to transfer customers from MtGox to CoinLab.
MtGox appears to have been unable to keep up with the changes to the Bitcoin protocol.

Anything inaccurate about this assessment?  I'm trying to maintain a relatively neutral view of the facts, but that's difficult as a Foundation non-member, since the Foundation does everything in secret.  So if anything is mistaken please let me know.

But, beyond just the obvious facts, would anyone like to discuss the obvious clusterfuck of interests going on here?  Should I even mention BitInstant?

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February 10, 2014, 05:27:28 PM
 #7

Pretty sure this needs to get addressed sooner than later.

I realize some things take time, but two years to fix a known bug is a wee bit excessive.

-B-

I guess it depends on the programmers working on it. Cheesy


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February 10, 2014, 05:27:38 PM
 #8

Quote
Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011

Known by whom?

Where is the list of all known Bitcoin issues that I can access and view freely? written in plain non-technical language so that anyone about to invest money into Bitcoin can familiarize themselves with the potential risks?


Quote
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February 10, 2014, 05:30:13 PM
 #9

I called it, last night I was telling some folks that gox's response will be "it's not fault this happened".... sure enough they come out saying it's not their fault.  Gox always does this when something goes wrong,  it's never anything wrong on their end but always something out of their control that causes the problems.

Hopefully in the next 6-12 months gox will be a thing of the past.  They played their role in the btc community especially early on but it's become apparent that under their current management gox isn't fit to be a bitcoin exchange and we need exchanges that are more capable of delivering the demands of a bitcoin exchange.

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February 10, 2014, 05:33:45 PM
 #10

Quote
Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011

Known by whom?

Where is the list of all known Bitcoin issues that I can access and view freely? written in plain non-technical language so that anyone about to invest money into Bitcoin can familiarize themselves with the potential risks?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability

Follow the references.
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February 10, 2014, 05:40:09 PM
 #11

Quote
Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011

Known by whom?

Where is the list of all known Bitcoin issues that I can access and view freely? written in plain non-technical language so that anyone about to invest money into Bitcoin can familiarize themselves with the potential risks?

You say that like it should be somebody's responsibility to provide you with it?
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February 10, 2014, 05:42:38 PM
 #12

Quote
Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011

Known by whom?

Where is the list of all known Bitcoin issues that I can access and view freely? written in plain non-technical language so that anyone about to invest money into Bitcoin can familiarize themselves with the potential risks?

You say that like it should be somebody's responsibility to provide you with it?

You say that like it shouldn't be somebody's responsibility to provide me with it?

Quote
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February 10, 2014, 05:43:14 PM
 #13

Cliff Notes:

Contrary to Mt. Gox’s Statement, Bitcoin is not at fault -Gavin Andresen, Feb 10 2014


whtchocla7e
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February 10, 2014, 05:43:52 PM
 #14

Quote
Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011

Known by whom?

Where is the list of all known Bitcoin issues that I can access and view freely? written in plain non-technical language so that anyone about to invest money into Bitcoin can familiarize themselves with the potential risks?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability

Follow the references.

Added Jan 2013.

Quote
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▃▅▆█ L E A D █▆▅▃▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
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February 10, 2014, 06:04:28 PM
 #15

Pretty sure this needs to get addressed sooner than later.

I realize some things take time, but two years to fix a known bug is a wee bit excessive.

-B-

That's what I was thinking. Bug or weakness, this "Foundation" should have realised that billions of money is at stake. Everywhere you go they warn about safety first, be careful for malware, key-logging, etc. Why would anyone trust any Bitcoin-exchange, where wallets are controlled by third-parties anyway, even worse, they are managed by amateurish clowns !? Now, "empty cocks" is throwing mud and hits Bitcoin in their weakest spot.
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February 10, 2014, 06:30:07 PM
 #16

Maybe this was discussed somewhere else but could this be something Gox came up with to buy them time. There are a lot of people who are questioning their liquidity. I doubt they will cut and run because they are too big for that. So maybe they are just coming up with an excuse while they try to solve their money problems.

As Gavin and many others have said...this is not a new fault. Its been openly discussed for years now. So why is Gox suddenly having problems now when nobody else is?

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination"  -Albert Einstein
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February 10, 2014, 06:53:18 PM
 #17


You say that like it shouldn't be somebody's responsibility to provide me with it?

It's not.  It's called due diligence.  Everyone has to due (Tongue) their own.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
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February 10, 2014, 06:57:04 PM
 #18

Quote
Transaction malleability has been known about since 2011

Known by whom?

Where is the list of all known Bitcoin issues that I can access and view freely? written in plain non-technical language so that anyone about to invest money into Bitcoin can familiarize themselves with the potential risks?

You say that like it should be somebody's responsibility to provide you with it?

You say that like it shouldn't be somebody's responsibility to provide me with it?

Uhhhh no it shouldn't be. You have google and an active internet connection you can find it for yourself. I know for a fact i've seen about a hundred articles on this site alone about a 51% attack and blockchain size...

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February 10, 2014, 06:58:08 PM
 #19

we all know its MTGox's custom scripts that are at fault more so then blaiming bitcoin.

we know this because bitcoin is stored on private keys, and if it was a bitcoin issue, we would all have it. so its a local problem with his system. and the solution is simple.

delete the script and make a new script that connects to the members database and client. theres no need to waste weeks debugging dodgy code that has hundreds of functions for the entire service. when a simple withdraw script will do the trick

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February 10, 2014, 06:59:01 PM
 #20

Maybe this was discussed somewhere else but could this be something Gox came up with to buy them time. There are a lot of people who are questioning their liquidity. I doubt they will cut and run because they are too big for that. So maybe they are just coming up with an excuse while they try to solve their money problems.

As Gavin and many others have said...this is not a new fault. Its been openly discussed for years now. So why is Gox suddenly having problems now when nobody else is?

Gox just doesn't want to accept blame for their shit code.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
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