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Author Topic: Gravity Kicks MultiPools in the A$$  (Read 2544 times)
maco (OP)
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February 10, 2014, 07:16:25 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2014, 03:11:40 AM by maco
 #1

Well, as we know, Multi-pools are there to make sure they switch when profits are at its peak... Investor or Miner are seeing large dumps onto the exchange for every altcoin *UNLESS* Gravity Well[1] is implemented to stop them. Most developers are now starting to implement KGW at its launch to make sure they are prepared in their defense against multi-pools.  This is where Gravity Well kicks in and having this implemented will help keep the value where it needs to be without much dumping on the exchange.

The Gravity Technology was implemented and that kicks them out of 'gaming-the-system' of altcoins.
maco (OP)
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February 10, 2014, 07:17:59 PM
 #2

Source: https://forum.megacoin.co.nz/index.php?topic=893.0

The Newbie's Guide to the Kimoto Gravity Well[1]

Many of you may have heard of Kimoto's Gravity Well and that it is supposedly a major part of what makes Megacoin unique from other cryptocurrencies. However, many of you may also not know what exactly it is and what makes it so special. If that is the case, then this guide is for you.

What Is a Mining Difficulty Readjustment Algorithm, Anyway? To understand what the Gravity Well algorithm is and what it does, you first need to understand what a "mining difficulty readjustment algorithm" is and why is it important for all current cryptocurrencies based off of the original Bitcoin source code. First, let's pull a few important definitions from the Bitcoin wiki:

Difficulty Difficulty is a measure of how difficult it is to find a new block compared to the easiest it can ever be.

Difficulty Readjustment (for Bitcoin) The difficulty is adjusted every 2016 blocks based on the time it took to find the previous 2016 blocks. At the desired rate of one block each 10 minutes, 2016 blocks would take exactly two weeks to find. If the previous 2016 blocks took more than two weeks to find, the difficulty is reduced. If they took less than two weeks, the difficulty is increased. The change in difficulty is in proportion to the amount of time over or under two weeks the previous 2016 blocks took to find.

So basically, the "difficulty" of a coin determines how hard it is for miners to find and mint blocks of that coin. The more miners there are mining a coin, the faster blocks will be found and at the end of this difficulty readjustment period (approximately every two weeks for Bitcoin), the difficulty will change accordingly so that the number of coins minted will follow the intended distribution curve. This has worked well for Bitcoin (so far) because of it's extremely slow adoption rate in the early days and now because of the sheer number of miners on the network. However, this method of difficulty readjustment is flawed for new altcoins entering the market today for a number of reasons which I will discuss below.

The History of the Gravity Well Mining Difficulty Readjustment Algorithm When Megacoin first launched, it used a more traditional difficulty readjustment algorithm based off of Bitcoin's original proposal. (Author's note: I have forgotten what the original implementation was for Megacoin, but if anyone knows the details please let me know so I can put that here for perspective and history's sake.) By this time, some SHA-256 coins had already felt the pain of difficulty readjustment problems due to the influx of ASIC miners and an activity known as "pool-hopping".

If you are familiar with cryptocurrency mining at all, you may already know that in most cases, solo mining is usually impossible without extremely powerful hardware due to the large number of people now aware of cryptocurrencies and willing to mine for them. Most miners mine through pools, which provide proportional payouts of coins based on the amount of hashing power you provide to the network. This mitigates some of the risk of mining in that you receive a steady stream of coins based on your network hashing rate, so even small-time miners can still earn their share of the pie. However, as pool mining became more popular and more altcoins arrived on the market, services known as "multipools" began to appear. These were special pools that allowed miners to automatically switch to the "most profitable" coin to mine based on the current exchange rates. However, these new multipools introduced some new problems to the cryptocurrency landscape, one of those being major difficulty readjustment woes.

As Megacoin began to rise in price several months after its inception, it started to become a target for these multipools. What happens when this occurs is that suddenly the Megacoin network gets barraged by an influx of new (and very powerful) miners. This causes the block confirmation time to plummet and subsequently causes the difficulty to skyrocket at the next difficulty readjustment. When this occurs, the mining profitability also drops due to the higher difficulty which then in turn causes all of the multipool miners to leave the network in search of the next most profitable coin. What remains is an extremely high difficulty and only the "core" group of Megacoin miners left to deal with the aftermath. In extreme cases, the difficulty may be so high in proportion to the number of miners left that the entire network grinds to a halt. This has happened in the past to Terracoin and Feathercoin, among others. The only solution if this occurs is to hard fork the coin in an attempt to readjust the difficulty (or change the difficulty readjustment algorithm) or simply grind out the mining at an extremely slow pace (during which time the coin is basically unusable) until enough blocks are found to make it to the next difficulty readjustment. The more blocks required until the next difficulty readjustment, the longer this period of unusability will be, and in some cases could mean the death of the coin completely unless drastic measures are taken.

When this happened to Megacoin, Kimoto decided to come up with a better way to perform difficulty readjustment, and the result is the Kimoto Gravity Well (which is now also used as the difficulty readjustment algorithm for Anoncoin as well after it met a similar fate as that described above). And thus, we have the Megacoin we know and love today. Next I will discuss what exactly the Gravity Well does and how it works to keep mining stable and fair for all Megacoin miners and users.

Gravity Well: Explained Now that you know how the Gravity Well came to be, let's take a look at what exactly it does and how it works. At the most basic level, Kimoto has changed how difficulty readjustment works so that the difficulty is adjusted after every single block that is mined on the network. I'm not 100% sure about the exact mathematics behind the calculations, but so far since its introduction on the network the difficulty has adjusted smoothly and flawlessly no matter how many miners there are on the network and even throughout the huge price (and subsequent mining hash rate) increase we have seen over the past couple of weeks. This keeps mining fair and secure for all miners and users of the coin, and prevents the rampant multipool abuse that was (and still is) common with most all other altcoins out on the market today. This is even more important to consider when one day ASIC miners are developed for Scrypt coins and a small number of miners will suddenly have access to extremely powerful mining hardware. If and when this occurs, a malicious (or simply greedy) miner can simply point his or her ASIC miner at any Scrypt-based coin and cripple it because of the extreme difficulty fluctuation this will cause. (This is actually what happened with Terracoin after SHA-256 ASICS began to flood the market.) Megacoin, however, will be safe from this type of malicious mining behavior due to the smooth difficulty readjustment that Kimoto's Gravity Well provides.
triwebb1
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February 10, 2014, 07:38:17 PM
 #3

There are several coins that are using this system now, it is definitely a step above the traditional difficulty adjustment mechanism.  I'm glad that DUCK has implemented this!  It will help this coin retain it's functionality while other coins get destroyed.
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February 10, 2014, 07:39:35 PM
 #4

Duck is a dead coin. I think the dev scammed everyone or something

But, the grav well is a great innovation. A few coins without it were screwed

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February 10, 2014, 07:41:49 PM
 #5

I personally really like this, multipools are really fking up the dif of few coins.
maco (OP)
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February 10, 2014, 07:50:29 PM
 #6

Duck is a dead coin. I think the dev scammed everyone or something

But, the grav well is a great innovation. A few coins without it were screwed

I think 42 coin got screwed badly due to this pitfall of not having Gravity Implemented.

I don't see how duck is a dead coin, tho..? and why does everyone in the crypto community call each other Scammers so fast with no real reason?
Instead of being united and working towards the same plan, we fight each other for no apparent reasons. This is what I hate about bitcointalk... my 2 cents.

Look at how bad MTGOX scammed people... and no one seems to call them a scam? Why? Put your shit together community... we are fighting each other for no reason.

Today, a lot of places pulled MTGOX out of their Pricing Index and Browsing Support... I think Duck is far away from that type of stunt Mtgox is pulling. .
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February 10, 2014, 07:51:15 PM
 #7

I think it's smarter to implement this after launching, but before hitting an exchange. Big multipools do not mine launchcoins since there is no exchange to dump the coins. When you want to create a hype for a coin, it's not done with KGW.  When all miners start at launch mining this coin difficulty the rockets, making it not really attractive to start at the beginning of the launch. So they know they are better off starting to mine in 2 or 3 days, when the hype is gone. But this also means the hashrate will not rocket at the introduction....   so this is not good for the coin. Because after a few days there was no hype and the coin has not jumpstarted.... and it may look there is not much interrest in the coin.

Miners want to be rewarded for supporting your coin at moment 1. So diff retarget after a lot of blocks is good. This means day 0 miners will have lots of coins, and will support it.

Sure there are serious coins with a purpose that could implement Kimoto, and still get away with it. But i do not think a Duckcoins falls in this catagory... But most coins are just here to get pumped and dumped. This is not a bad thing when everyone knows this really...

How do you get miners to mine a coin with no purpose, and no rewards for early miners?

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February 10, 2014, 07:54:42 PM
 #8

Good read. Thanks!
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February 10, 2014, 07:57:36 PM
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I think it's smarter to implement this after launching, but before hitting an exchange. Big multipools do not mine launchcoins since there is no exchange to dump the coins. When you want to create a hype for a coin, it's not done with KGW.  When all miners start at launch mining this coin difficulty rockets. So they know they are better off starting to mine in 2 or 3 days. But this also means the hashrate will not rocket at the introduction....   so this is not good for the coin. Because after a few days there was no hype and the coin has not jumpstarted,

Miners want to be rewarded for supporting your coin at moment 1. So diff retarget after a lot of blocks is good. This means day 0 miners will have lots of coins, and will support it.

Sure there are serious coins with a purpose that could implement Kimoto, and still get away with it. But i do not think a Duckcoins falls in this catagory... But most coins are just here to get pumped and dumped. This is not a bad thing when everyone knows this really...

How do you get miners to mine a coin with no purpose, and no rewards for early miners?



+1.

Agreed.

Why not just fork the coin to implement KGW before hitting an exchange? If feasible...
terracide
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February 10, 2014, 08:00:30 PM
Last edit: February 10, 2014, 08:50:49 PM by terracide
 #10

I think it's smarter to implement this after launching, but before hitting an exchange. Big multipools do not mine launchcoins since there is no exchange to dump the coins. When you want to create a hype for a coin, it's not done with KGW.  When all miners start at launch mining this coin difficulty rockets. So they know they are better off starting to mine in 2 or 3 days. But this also means the hashrate will not rocket at the introduction....   so this is not good for the coin. Because after a few days there was no hype and the coin has not jumpstarted,

Miners want to be rewarded for supporting your coin at moment 1. So diff retarget after a lot of blocks is good. This means day 0 miners will have lots of coins, and will support it.

Sure there are serious coins with a purpose that could implement Kimoto, and still get away with it. But i do not think a Duckcoins falls in this catagory... But most coins are just here to get pumped and dumped. This is not a bad thing when everyone knows this really...

How do you get miners to mine a coin with no purpose, and no rewards for early miners?



+1.

Agreed.

Why not just fork the coin to implement KGW before hitting an exchange? If feasible...

not only feasible... but done by almost every coin. It's not because they did not think about it when creating the coin... they thought about it very well and decided to do this later. Why worry about multipools ....  first there has to be a profitable coin to attract them. This is done by volume by miners with a good hashrate and market capitalisation.

When i see a coin that has KGW at introduction i will not mine it at start. Does not make sense. Sorry for being the partypooper.

Megacoin was a well known and supported coin with a big marketcapwhen Kimoto introduced difficulty retarget per block.
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February 10, 2014, 08:10:15 PM
 #11

I've been a big supporter of Kimoto Gravity well for weeks. I was one of the first to suggest it for Catcoin (which as of yet is still deciding on a new algorithm) and also KlondikeCoin, which thanks to a great dev got implemented long before the multipools had a chance to wade in.

Kimoto Gravity Well is becoming the mainstream difficulty algorithm to fight back against the multipools and coin hoppers, and I for one am glad of it. I would like to see some KGW variations start appearing, though. I do believe it can still be improved upon.

Variety is a good thing, and it would be boring if every other Scrypt coin that came out now was KGW.

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February 10, 2014, 08:56:04 PM
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I've been a big supporter of Kimoto Gravity well for weeks. I was one of the first to suggest it for Catcoin (which as of yet is still deciding on a new algorithm) and also KlondikeCoin, which thanks to a great dev got implemented long before the multipools had a chance to wade in.

Kimoto Gravity Well is becoming the mainstream difficulty algorithm to fight back against the multipools and coin hoppers, and I for one am glad of it. I would like to see some KGW variations start appearing, though. I do believe it can still be improved upon.

Variety is a good thing, and it would be boring if every other Scrypt coin that came out now was KGW.


There are many other things you can do ... KWG is good but you need something to attract miners. Like block halving, bigger payouts the first XX blocks etc. KWG is not the thing to attract miners. A trophy block every  1210th block  makes people jump in and jump out.
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February 10, 2014, 09:43:25 PM
 #13

Good write-up, thanks OP.

I really hope that CSC will implement this soon. It gets kicked in the nuts on a daily / bi-daily basis due to a high number of blocks between difficulty adjustments. It's one of the few alts that I see having a long-term future, but not if miners continue to shy away from it because they know they're just grinding out the hard work in-between the multipools jumping all over it.
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February 10, 2014, 10:26:12 PM
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+++ for intellect and style of writing, Sir I hope u become a Titan of the future community
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February 10, 2014, 11:17:58 PM
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I've been a big supporter of Kimoto Gravity well for weeks. I was one of the first to suggest it for Catcoin (which as of yet is still deciding on a new algorithm) and also KlondikeCoin, which thanks to a great dev got implemented long before the multipools had a chance to wade in.

Kimoto Gravity Well is becoming the mainstream difficulty algorithm to fight back against the multipools and coin hoppers, and I for one am glad of it. I would like to see some KGW variations start appearing, though. I do believe it can still be improved upon.

Variety is a good thing, and it would be boring if every other Scrypt coin that came out now was KGW.

It will be good for the altcoins to have more options when it comes to differentiate themselves from other coins.
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February 11, 2014, 02:02:07 AM
 #16

pump before the coin lunched? is it that bad ?
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February 11, 2014, 02:17:03 AM
 #17

+1  Smiley

Thanks for sharing this---a good read. I was pretty unclear on difficulty reajustment until you presented this.

Perhaps in another thread you could create a list of coins that utilize the kitomo gravity well? Would be most useful.
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February 11, 2014, 02:23:01 AM
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+1  Smiley

Thanks for sharing this---a good read. I was pretty unclear on difficulty reajustment until you presented this.

Perhaps in another thread you could create a list of coins that utilize the kitomo gravity well? Would be most useful.

https://forum.megacoin.in/index.php?topic=2791.msg9395#msg9395
maco (OP)
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February 11, 2014, 06:53:11 AM
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+1  Smiley

Thanks for sharing this---a good read. I was pretty unclear on difficulty reajustment until you presented this.

Perhaps in another thread you could create a list of coins that utilize the kitomo gravity well? Would be most useful.

https://forum.megacoin.in/index.php?topic=2791.msg9395#msg9395

Yes, credit goes to KIMOTO => https://forum.megacoin.in/index.php?topic=2791.msg9395#msg9395
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February 11, 2014, 07:53:24 AM
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+1  Smiley

Thanks for sharing this---a good read. I was pretty unclear on difficulty reajustment until you presented this.

Perhaps in another thread you could create a list of coins that utilize the kitomo gravity well? Would be most useful.

https://forum.megacoin.in/index.php?topic=2791.msg9395#msg9395

Yes, credit goes to KIMOTO => https://forum.megacoin.in/index.php?topic=2791.msg9395#msg9395

Hrmmm these the coins that have it impemented? If so I for sure will stick to those coins then.

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