[2018-07-03]Voorhees vs Schiff: Bull Meets Bear at NY Bitcoin Debate

[Portal_Network]

A debate between an infamous bitcoin detractor and one of the cryptocurrency's most well-known entrepreneurs made sparks fly in New York City Monday.

Hosted by the Soho Forum, a monthly Manhattan debate series, the event saw Erik Voorhees, the CEO of exchange service ShapeShift, argue that government-backed monies will eventually be replaced by bitcoin and blockchain innovations. The world's largest cryptocurrency, he said, just needs gradual adoption to eventually triumph.

However, the debate was far from a one-sided showcase. There to represent the opposition, Peter Schiff provided more than a healthy dose of skepticism. Perhaps most damningly, he argued people are not currently buying into bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies to use them; they're here to get rich, he said.

The economist said that bitcoin is primarily seen as a speculative asset. Moreover, even people who do plan to use bitcoin cannot do so easily.

Bitcoin is not, at present, a reliable store of value, he continued. Schiff pointed out that the price of a bitcoin can change hour-to-hour, which makes it difficult for people to price goods or negotiate contracts using the cryptocurrency.

"The biggest problem with bitcoin and why it can never be used as money is because [currency] has to be a reliable store of value, not just a medium of exchange," he said.

Voorhees did not see market fluctuations as an issue.

He told the crowd:

"I remember when it was a big deal when bitcoin moved 50 percent. Today, it's a big deal when it moves 10 percent. I think in a few years it'll be a big deal when it moves 2-3 percent. While bitcoin is volatile today, I think this problem is self-correcting."

Still, the event did see both provocateurs find common ground. Schiff, for example, doesn't believe in fiat currency.

"The fiat system that we have now is not going to work," but "replacing fiat currency with digital currency is not an improvement," he said.

See More: https://www.coindesk.com/voorhees-vs-schiff-bull-tackles-bear-at-bitcoin-debate/

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[Betwrong]

I agree with Erik Voorhees on that that volatility of Bitcoin will be decreasing with time. The more different individuals will be holding BTC the less volatile it will be, because most people are not speculators and also it's almost impossible to agree on cooperative action when there are millions of participants. I know that we already have millions of Bitcoin holders but it is also known that 96% of addresses own less than 4% of the total amount of BTC. With wider adoption the distribution of BTC will become more equal and market manipulations will be less possible.

[1Referee]

The more different individuals will be holding BTC the less volatile it will be, because most people are not speculators and also it's almost impossible to agree on cooperative action when there are millions of participants. I know that we already have millions of Bitcoin holders but it is also known that 96% of addresses own less than 4% of the total amount of BTC. With wider adoption the distribution of BTC will become more equal and market manipulations will be less possible.

Bitcoin wealth distribution isn't much different from legacy wealth distribution. If one thing became clear throughout the years, then it's the fact that the Bitcoin elite holds more coins after a correction than before, and this year after year. I technically don't even need to buy Bitcoin anymore; I can just keep waiting for bull runs that I can short, and there you have it. If I look at my net result of my short last year, then it's a gain of 125%. In other words, for every 1BTC that I shorted, I gained an additional 1.25BTC.

I'm a small fish, imagine how much whales managed to gain during the recent correction. I'm quite certain that they are closer to 200% with thousands and thousands of coins. Above all the spot profits they likey have shorted Bitcoin through futures as well.

Bitcoin won't ever have a fair distribution of wealth. The higher the price is, the lower the amounts are that people can afford and need. The elite can hold 98% of all Bitcoins and that 2% is still enough for the average joes to use it as currency and store of value.

[Betwrong]

The more different individuals will be holding BTC the less volatile it will be, because most people are not speculators and also it's almost impossible to agree on cooperative action when there are millions of participants. I know that we already have millions of Bitcoin holders but it is also known that 96% of addresses own less than 4% of the total amount of BTC. With wider adoption the distribution of BTC will become more equal and market manipulations will be less possible.

Bitcoin wealth distribution isn't much different from legacy wealth distribution. If one thing became clear throughout the years, then it's the fact that the Bitcoin elite holds more coins after a correction than before, and this year after year. I technically don't even need to buy Bitcoin anymore; I can just keep waiting for bull runs that I can short, and there you have it. If I look at my net result of my short last year, then it's a gain of 125%. In other words, for every 1BTC that I shorted, I gained an additional 1.25BTC.

I'm a small fish, imagine how much whales managed to gain during the recent correction. I'm quite certain that they are closer to 200% with thousands and thousands of coins. Above all the spot profits they likey have shorted Bitcoin through futures as well.

Bitcoin won't ever have a fair distribution of wealth. The higher the price is, the lower the amounts are that people can afford and need. The elite can hold 98% of all Bitcoins and that 2% is still enough for the average joes to use it as currency and store of value.

Apparently I'm more optimistic about Bitcoin wealth distribution than you are. I agree that whales most likely collected even more BTC than before with this year's roller coaster, but I don't think that this trend will continue. There are millions of wealthy people who can afford buying 1 BTC and hold it no matter what. Those people are just not among the adopters yet, but they will surely be in the future. Also, I think Bitcoin will rise a lot because of that. There are 36 Million Millionaires in the World. Just think what will happen if every one of them will be willing to hold just 1 Bitcoin.

[1Referee]

Apparently I'm more optimistic about Bitcoin wealth distribution than you are.

I strongly hope that I'll be proven wrong in the long run.

There are millions of wealthy people who can afford buying 1 BTC and hold it no matter what. Those people are just not among the adopters yet, but they will surely be in the future. Also, I think Bitcoin will rise a lot because of that. There are 36 Million Millionaires in the World. Just think what will happen if every one of them will be willing to hold just 1 Bitcoin.

Correct, but considering that most wealthy individuals are just interested in the exposure, they can just as easily use cash settled instruments where they will never touch one single satoshi. There needs to be a serious mentality shift where people will start to value Bitcoin like how they value Gold. With Bitcoin you can own the actual asset without the bulk that people usually store in safe deposit boxes. If you also take into consideration Gold's currency aspect that never really took off, but Bitcoin's currency aspect did and will do even more with LN, it's all up to the people to realize that.