SebastianJu accepts transaction buying/selling bitcointalk accounts

[digaran]

Are you the new merit source now? if you are then what happened to your promise of meriting those 10 posts in your application? if you are then it could explain your change of behavior, or are you trying to become more of DT bitches so that they could welcome you to their flock? are you also going to do favors for those who you or DT members trust? perhaps doing merit favors for them like some of the sources?
The problem with me is that I don't do favors for people, escrowing for account sales for years deserve a red trust. you disagree? you want to let them decide what is best?

Who says DT=trusted? DT actually means that theymos is favoring a selected few over others, he is not doing anything if these trusted few do something untrustworthy such as red tagging the competition or countering the feedbacks to hide the truth from the public eyes or bullying other forum members or leaving positive trust on whomever they want with no reference.
How does that make you feel if I could rank up anybody I want without giving them any merits? leaving positive trust with no reference is like that, they are increasing the trust scores of anybody they want without providing any evidence other than their words.

Here take this positive trust because I trust this guy.(without providing any convincing reason so that people know why this guy has a green trust)
Here take this forum rank because I trust this member.(without giving them merits so that people could see why this member is getting to the next rank)
Both of them are wrong.
Here SebastianJu has done escrow for account sales for years if you read the PM in the screenshot, didn't he know that the community was frowning such deals? yet he was gladly taking the deals because of his fees. unfuckingtrustworthy behavior no matter how much you don't want it to be.

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[actmyname]

are you also going to do favors for those who you or DT members trust? perhaps doing merit favors for them like some of the sources?

I am not aware of any DT member that wants merit that badly. Most are Hero Members and Legendary.

Who says DT=trusted? DT actually means that theymos is favoring a selected few over others, he is not doing anything if these trusted [... are] countering the feedbacks to hide the truth from the public eyes

This argument is still stupid and yet you continue to push it. Is this quote not enough? Haven't you seen it enough?

It's entirely legitimate to give someone a new positive rating just to negate a negative rating.

or [DT members] leaving positive trust on whomever they want with no reference.

You can leave feedback based on the person, not a specific trade.

- It's OK to post a rating about the person in general, not tied to a specific trade.

they are increasing the trust scores of anybody they want without providing any evidence other than their words.
[...]
Here take this positive trust because I trust this guy.(without providing any convincing reason so that people know why this guy has a green trust)

The comment section isn't relevant at all, then.

[pugman]

Are you the new merit source now? if you are then what happened to your promise of meriting those 10 posts in your application? if you are then it could explain your change of behavior, or are you trying to become more of DT bitches so that they could welcome you to their flock? are you also going to do favors for those who you or DT members trust? perhaps doing merit favors for them like some of the sources?

Irrelevant.

I am not trying to be a DT "bitch". I want to help this forum,yes. But being a DT member is not the only way. And change of behavior? The fuck? Do elaborate.

I don't do anybody favors,unless I know them very well personally.

The problem with me is that I don't do favors for people, escrowing for account sales for years deserve a red trust. you disagree? you want to let them decide what is best?

This has nothing to do with favors. Stop twisting my own words against me. I know what I said and I stand by it. Seb shouldn't be tagged for doing escrow.

Do you know there is something called,"There's an exception to anything and everything." This applies here.

Seb helps this forum, and the people by providing escrow so that people can't be scammed and you want to warrant him a negative trust because he is untrustworthy all of a sudden,just because he escrows accounts?

Who says DT=trusted? DT actually means that theymos is favoring a selected few over others, he is not doing anything if these trusted few do something untrustworthy such as red tagging the competition or countering the feedbacks to hide the truth from the public eyes or bullying other forum members or leaving positive trust on whomever they want with no reference.

What does =/= mean?

You have a very disturbing idea of what DT actually is. No wonder you're saying random shit.

How does that make you feel if I could rank up anybody I want without giving them any merits? leaving positive trust with no reference is like that, they are increasing the trust scores of anybody they want without providing any evidence other than their words.
Here take this positive trust because I trust this guy.(without providing any convincing reason so that people know why this guy has a green trust)
Here take this forum rank because I trust this member.(without giving them merits so that people could see why this member is getting to the next rank)
Both of them are wrong.

You have no clue on how this forum works, let alone DT. Do you know why theymos handpicked a few DT members? Do you? And FYI, people have been booted off from DT1.

Here SebastianJu has done escrow for account sales for years if you read the PM in the screenshot, didn't he know that the community was frowning such deals? yet he was gladly taking the deals because of his fees. unfuckingtrustworthy behavior no matter how much you don't want it to be.

You can't say if he knew or didn't knew. If a community frowns such behavior, that doesn't mean that he should also frown such behavior.

[digaran]

Ignoring our newest forum sheep a.k.a pugman. moving forward with the fact that from now on people are going to use SebastianJu as escrow to buy and sell forum accounts without any risk.

Unfuckingbelievable, could we have a few topics on invites and accounts asking buyers and sellers to use the most trusted forum escrow for their deals already?

[wizcoin]

Doing escrow of buying and selling account is obviously tolerating the transaction of an account being transferred to someone else. Isn't being untrustworthy? Or is it only because a "SebastianJu" did the escrow that's why no one can touch him? So is it safe to say that the account that were escrowed by someone like "SebastianJu" can be safe and will not be tagged by DT members as long as they aren't violating any rules?

How about other members of this community doing escrow like this but not famous as SebastianJu, will they be neg tagged for this kind of transaction?

No hate, just asking this.  

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Doing escrow of buying and selling account is obviously tolerating the transaction of an account being transferred to someone else. Isn't being untrustworthy?

I don't like it particularly, but I'm not going there with the tagging.  That goes for all escrows.  The purpose of an escrow is to keep the buyer and seller safe, which is what SebastianJu was doing.  That's necessary with bitcoin, and I would probably venture that escrow has been used for other things I wouldn't agree with--I don't have examples, just my suspicion, and I'm not talking about SebastianJu in particular.  But every situation is different. 

In this case, it's bitcointalk accounts and he might not agree with my stance that account buyers & sellers are killing this forum and can be used to scam.  I pick my battles, and this isn't one of them.

[digaran]

Bump, unbelievable seeing that SebastianJu is still walking around with no red tags, I know that you are afraid of OgNasty, I'm just hoping for the best.

Doing escrow of buying and selling account is obviously tolerating the transaction of an account being transferred to someone else. Isn't being untrustworthy?

I don't like it particularly, but I'm not going there with the tagging.  That goes for all escrows.  The purpose of an escrow is to keep the buyer and seller safe, which is what SebastianJu was doing.  That's necessary with bitcoin, and I would probably venture that escrow has been used for other things I wouldn't agree with--I don't have examples, just my suspicion, and I'm not talking about SebastianJu in particular.  But every situation is different.  

In this case, it's bitcointalk accounts and he might not agree with my stance that account buyers & sellers are killing this forum and can be used to scam.  I pick my battles, and this isn't one of them.

Hear me out will you? if SebastianJu is not tagged with red left and right, people will use his service to buy and sell accounts, your great job at tagging account sales would be wasted if people could bypass somebody like you on DT2 and trade accounts safely. SebastianJu is not going to stop this because he is getting a fee for escrowing no matter what is the deal, if he is tagged though he will stop doing it.

[Lauda]

Bump, unbelievable seeing that SebastianJu is still walking around with no red tags, I know that you are afraid of OgNasty, I'm just hoping for the best.

You can't tag him even if you have proper justification without receiving unjust retaliation (not OgNasty, Seb. himself). Therefore, I highly doubt that anyone will act on this regardless of where they stand on escrowing forum accounts.

[Quickseller]

Bump, unbelievable seeing that SebastianJu is still walking around with no red tags, I know that you are afraid of OgNasty, I'm just hoping for the best.

You can't tag him even if you have proper justification without receiving unjust retaliation (not OgNasty, Seb. himself). Therefore, I highly doubt that anyone will act on this regardless of where they stand on escrowing forum accounts.

Very few people are so corrupt that they will leave negative ratings against people that speak out against them for made up reasons. Your level of corruption is the exception rather than the rule.

See won’t get tagged because he isn’t weak enough to be unable to defend his actions. He would win a debate of the issue on its merits.

[qwk]

You can't tag him even if you have proper justification without receiving unjust retaliation (not OgNasty, Seb. himself). Therefore, I highly doubt that anyone will act on this regardless of where they stand on escrowing forum accounts.

I would.

There's just one tiny problem, why I won't:
I simply don't see anything wrong with escrowing a deal that is perfectly legal and even accepted under the rules of this forum.

If I negged that, where should I stop?
Could I also neg the escrows of any kind of deal I personally don't like?

I don't like selling Altcoins, ICOs, drugs, porn (because I consider it a human right to get that for free!), and probably a lot of other things.
But who am I to force my opinion on others?

I really loathe account sales.
But I will never judge anyone for escrowing them.

[minifrij]

The buyers and sellers of the accounts are the issues. Keeping people safe as an escrow isn't something to be punished for, regardless of what they are escrowing.

Ignoring all of the above, I generally do not like telling other people what kind of transactions they can and cannot take part of, when all parties to the transaction are fully understanding of the consequences of the transaction. Attempts to regulate these kinds of transactions is nothing more than a power grab.

What a silly thing to say.

[Quickseller]

Ignoring all of the above, I generally do not like telling other people what kind of transactions they can and cannot take part of, when all parties to the transaction are fully understanding of the consequences of the transaction. Attempts to regulate these kinds of transactions is nothing more than a power grab.

What a silly thing to say.

Sarcasm?

[minifrij]

Sarcasm?

Not particularly. I think there is certainly merit to trying to regulate certain types of sales, and punish those overstepping boundaries.
Someone buying/selling fake IDs or credit cards is a non-extreme example that comes to mind right away. Both may understand the consequences of the transaction should they be caught, however that doesn't mean that we should allow these transactions to take place here without leaving negative ratings and the like. IMO, thinking that these transactions should be allowed and go unpunished/unfiltered is a silly thing to think.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, in which case feel free to correct me.

[digaran]

Very few people are so corrupt that they will leave negative ratings against people that speak out against them

Like OgNasty for example? being so corrupt to leave me a negative rating after speaking against him.

won’t get tagged because he isn’t weak enough to be unable to defend his actions. He would win a debate of the issue on its merits.

I would very much like to see how he is going to win this debate if he is tagged by a DT member, I wish there were some good DT1 member who could have tagged SebastianJu for escrowing account deals. unfortunately people around here are too coward to do anything.

Read more about it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1102721.msg42549551#msg42549551

EDIT: what is this dude saying posting below my post? what does this old timer trust abuser wants from me? I wonder what could happen if account sales were banned by the forum? I'm sure ogy and friends could've found another way at earning escrow fees.

[OgNasty]

Dude...  You are obsessed with trying to get my attention.  Look at how much time you've spent over the last week mentioning me.  Get a life.  Please.

OgNasty

OgNasty

OgNasty

OgNasty

OgNasty

OgNasty

OgNasty

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OgNasty

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Very few people are so corrupt that they will leave negative ratings against people that speak out against them

Like OgNasty for example? being so corrupt to leave me a negative rating after speaking against him.

won’t get tagged because he isn’t weak enough to be unable to defend his actions. He would win a debate of the issue on its merits.

I would very much like to see how he is going to win this debate if he is tagged by a DT member, I wish there were some good DT1 member who could have tagged SebastianJu for escrowing account deals. unfortunately people around here are too coward to do anything.

Read more about it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1102721.msg42549551#msg42549551

EDIT: what is this dude saying posting below my post? what does this old timer trust abuser wants from me? I wonder what could happen if account sales were banned by the forum? I'm sure ogy and friends could've found another way at earning escrow fees.

Does Account buying and selling is illegal?
I seen somewhere people got tagged for selling accounts, then why these guys doesn't get the same tag?

[Quickseller]

Sarcasm?

Not particularly. I think there is certainly merit to trying to regulate certain types of sales, and punish those overstepping boundaries.
Someone buying/selling fake IDs or credit cards is a non-extreme example that comes to mind right away. Both may understand the consequences of the transaction should they be caught, however that doesn't mean that we should allow these transactions to take place here without leaving negative ratings and the like. IMO, thinking that these transactions should be allowed and go unpunished/unfiltered is a silly thing to think.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, in which case feel free to correct me.

The sale of fake IDs and stolen credit cards is illegal in most of the civilized world, so this is already against forum rules.

Further, both of your examples have real victims, and the harm is not that someone's feelings are hurt. There will be people and/or entities that will ultimately suffer real financial losses as a result of stolen credit cards and/or fake IDs.

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts. None of the flawed arguments against account sales even make this claim. In fact these arguments fail to account for *real* market incentives not to do the very same things that those against account sales claim sales cause.

It is ridiculous to claim any kind of authority to regulate what people can and cannot do. Especially when you are in absolutely no way elected, and in no way accountable for your decisions. People who regulate others' actions who are neither elected nor accountable are generally described as "dictators".

[qwk]

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Yes, there are.
The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.
Therefore, a certain percentage of the people whose accounts have been "hacked" are victims of people selling forum accounts.

It's the same logic that applies to the sale of e.g. ivory.
Of course the seller doesn't shoot elephants, but someone does when there's a market.
In the end, the elephant dies.

[digaran]

I seen somewhere people got tagged for selling accounts, then why these guys doesn't get the same tag?

Nobody is going to tag SebastianJu because they are afraid of a retaliatory negative trust from them, since abuse of trust system has gone unpunished for years people are afraid to do anything because even if DT members such as ogy and SebastianJu abuse the system nobody with any power(an admin aka theymos) would step in to solve and put an end to the massive abuse. long story short, if you are on DT you could do whatever you want.

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Selling forum accounts would encourage spam and scam, therefore the whole community is the victim of account sales whether through trusted escrows such as SebastianJu or in the black market. stop defending your own underground business.

People who regulate others' actions who are neither elected nor accountable are generally described as "dictators".

Wrong, dictators are generally elected first and before becoming a dictator, they'll later become dictator when nobody is able to hold them accountable such as ogy and friends.
EDIT:

Power with no authority is tyranny.

[Quickseller]

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Yes, there are.
The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.
Therefore, a certain percentage of the people whose accounts have been "hacked" are victims of people selling forum accounts.

I don’t think selling accounts makes hacking accounts profitable. If you were to hack my account, and it was not possible to sell my account, you could scam someone with my account, which IMO is worse than you selling my account because if you sold my account, I could argue to the buyer their lack of a signed message is an indication they did not do proper due diligence and they were scammed by someone else, however if you were scamming from my account directly that argument would not work.

Further the reason accounts have value is because they can generate income. Using the above scenario, if you cannot sell my account after hacking it, you could use it to generate income, likes