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Author Topic: How mining GeistGeld/Tenebrix can get you a prison sentence in the US  (Read 3876 times)
Lolcust
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September 28, 2011, 02:16:55 PM
 #21

Cryptocurrencies are   abstractions formed by exotic math and more akin to distributed database service than anything else.
That argument (and a large bribe) might work in your court system. It most assuredly will not fly the US Federal Courts.

I assume you expect everyone to take an anonymous attorney-at-lol's word for it ?  Roll Eyes

While this might cause the Courts to legally recognize blockchain based cryptocurrencies as currencies, the downsides to that recognition far outweigh any upsides.

I like that "might" of yours, and an interesting "what if?" scenario (in the same way that "younderboy might be a lawyer since no laws of physics prohibit such a weird circumstance" is an interesting hypothetical Wink )

The US has a host of laws dealing with money, and a case such as this would be a very good excuse for them to get cryptocurrencies regulated without actually passing any new laws.

Again, I assume you expect everyone to take an anonymous attorney-at-lol's word for it ?  Roll Eyes

Also, exactly same (lack of) logic that you seem to apply to Cryptocoins applies to WoW gold, and WoW gold "laundry" would be easier to prosecute.

So do give me a PM when they get arrests, or better yet, convictions in the US for cases of "world of warcraft" not-really-money laundering.


If you cannot launder 50 or 100 bitcoins worth of currency from yourself to yourself, you a bad money launderer indeed.

Oh, I am indeed broken by your astute and in-depth assessment of relative merits of sneaking out an unspecified amount of coins from an addy everyone knows about without getting NOTICED (as opposed to "caught irl")

I see you are not only a powerful e-lawyer, but also a computer crime e-xpert.

You are DaVinci of our times, dude Smiley
What tweet? What are you on about?

Here-here



Ha ha ha haha.

Boy, this is absolutely hillarious. Could you please post this to Twitter or something ? (I can't pwomise a bounty, tho :-P )

No bounty, thx. I don't want to install a client and help further your continuing criminal enterprise. Thx, tho.
 


Which sort of strongly implies that you will tweet your e-lawyering fo' free Cheesy

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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Lupus_Yonderboy
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September 28, 2011, 06:49:15 PM
 #22

Cryptocurrencies are   abstractions formed by exotic math and more akin to distributed database service than anything else.
That argument (and a large bribe) might work in your court system. It most assuredly will not fly the US Federal Courts.

I assume you expect everyone to take an anonymous attorney-at-lol's word for it ?  Roll Eyes

They should trust a Russian money launderer instead? Admittedly it is in your best interest to obfuscate and distract from the topic at hand.

Quote
Oh, I am indeed broken by your astute and in-depth assessment of relative merits of sneaking out an unspecified amount of coins from an addy everyone knows about without getting NOTICED (as opposed to "caught irl")

I see you are not only a powerful e-lawyer, but also a computer crime e-xpert.

You are DaVinci of our times, dude Smiley

Since it has been your stated intention from the beginning to launder money, you do not need to get caught 'irl'. Nor do you need to actually launder any money now. You have formed a conspiracy to break the law at some point in the future using GeistGeld and/or Tenebrix, and anyone who helps further either of those projects (by mining, hosting a pool, or an exchange, etc.) is part of that conspiracy and just as guilty under US law.

Really though, it is pointless for me to argue the intricacies of US law with a Russian money launderer. Especially the one at the center of this little criminal enterprise who has very little to lose and a very small chance of ever being brought to justice. I doubt you will lose any sleep whatsoever should anyone suffer for mining your chain. Everybody who ever breaks the law has a reason, whether base or noble, for doing so. Making you rich should not be the reason anyone goes to prison.


Quote
What tweet? What are you on about?

Here-here



Ha ha ha haha.

Boy, this is absolutely hillarious. Could you please post this to Twitter or something ? (I can't pwomise a bounty, tho :-P )

No bounty, thx. I don't want to install a client and help further your continuing criminal enterprise. Thx, tho.
 


Which sort of strongly implies that you will tweet your e-lawyering fo' free Cheesy

No, although I can see where that can be misread. Your command and grasp of American English and the idioms and slang are absolutely amazing for a non-American. Makes one wonder if you are who you say you are. Russian money laundering is a bit of stereotype, and if you scammed everyone and disappeared...well that is to be expected when dealing with shady characters from Eastern Europe, right 'comrade'?

In fact, I can't seem to find where you have been posting in any other language except English. Hmmmm....
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September 28, 2011, 06:59:53 PM
 #23

Cryptocurrencies are   abstractions formed by exotic math and more akin to distributed database service than anything else.
That argument (and a large bribe) might work in your court system. It most assuredly will not fly the US Federal Courts.

I assume you expect everyone to take an anonymous attorney-at-lol's word for it ?  Roll Eyes

They should trust a Russian money launderer instead? Admittedly it is in your best interest to obfuscate and distract from the topic at hand.

Belo-russian, pretty puhleez.

And so far, your argument boils down to "it will be so because I say so". I think that's a fairly poor argument.

Since it has been your stated intention from the beginning to launder money, you do not need to get caught 'irl'. Nor do you need to actually launder any money now. You have formed a conspiracy to break the law at some point in the future using GeistGeld and/or Tenebrix, and anyone who helps further either of those projects (by mining, hosting a pool, or an exchange, etc.) is part of that conspiracy and just as guilty under US law.

According to an anonymous intenet attorney-at-lol  Roll Eyes

Who can only repeat his statements over and over with no coherent argument. Everybody run and scream, an attorney at lol is on the case!

Really though, it is pointless for me to argue the intricacies of US law with a Russian money launderer.

Belorussian.

I understand Geography is not part of your DaVinci skillset, amrite ?


Everybody who ever breaks the law has a reason, whether base or noble, for doing so. Making you rich should not be the reason anyone goes to prison.

How many people are in prison for laundering USD through WoW gold or those linden-dollar things ?  Roll Eyes

IIRC, 0

So go play someplace else and come back after at least one of those fairly straightforward schemes results in a conviction.


No, although I can see where that can be misread. Your command and grasp of American English and the idioms and slang are absolutely amazing for a non-American. Makes one wonder if you are who you say you are. Russian money laundering is a bit of stereotype, and if you scammed everyone and disappeared...well that is to be expected when dealing with shady characters from Eastern Europe, right 'comrade'?

Not all are short term optimizers, comrade Smiley

Also, once again, Republic Belarus is (regrettably as a matter of fact) not Russia.
In fact, I can't seem to find where you have been posting in any other language except English. Hmmmm....

А навошта мне пісаць на іншых мовах?

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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September 28, 2011, 07:53:12 PM
 #24

Belo-russian, pretty puhleez.

And so far, your argument boils down to "it will be so because I say so". I think that's a fairly poor argument.

And yours boils down to "It will be ok because I say so...look a squirrel!". I think that is a fairly poor rebuttal.
Quote
Since it has been your stated intention from the beginning to launder money, you do not need to get caught 'irl'. Nor do you need to actually launder any money now. You have formed a conspiracy to break the law at some point in the future using GeistGeld and/or Tenebrix, and anyone who helps further either of those projects (by mining, hosting a pool, or an exchange, etc.) is part of that conspiracy and just as guilty under US law.

According to an anonymous intenet attorney-at-lol  Roll Eyes

Who can only repeat his statements over and over with no coherent argument. Everybody run and scream, an attorney at lol is on the case!

Again it is painfully obvious you have no grasp of the US legal system or how it works. Your ignorance is not a defense for you or anyone else. I encourage any Americans reading this thread to consult a legal professional, even if it is an informal friend of a friend type of deal and discuss 'Conspiracy' laws. Anyone who has any regular dealings with the Federal courts in the US will know about them. You are right, they shouldn't trust me, and they damn sure shouldn't trust you.

Quote
Really though, it is pointless for me to argue the intricacies of US law with a Russian money launderer.

Belorussian.

I understand Geography is not part of your DaVinci skillstet, amrite ?

Actually it is, as well as other skillz. The phrasing was intentional. Your response to it says a lot. BTW, I notice President Lukashenko got 79% of the vote in the last election. He must be a really a great guy to get that much support from his people.  Grin
Quote
Everybody who ever breaks the law has a reason, whether base or noble, for doing so. Making you rich should not be the reason anyone goes to prison.

How many people are in prison for laundering USD through WoW gold or those linden-dollar things ?  Roll Eyes

IIRC, 0

So go play someplace else and come back after at least one of those fairly straightforward schemes results in a conviction.

No, but there are people doing time for money laundering with another digital currency, E-gold. The funny part is that the guys running E-gold got the time, even though they weren't the ones doing the laundering. Damn conspiracy laws. Link: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/148720/internet_currency_firm_pleads_guilty_to_money_laundering.html

You might want to read that article and take some notes. It is far more analgous to LolCoins than WoW or Lindens.

Quote
No, although I can see where that can be misread. Your command and grasp of American English and the idioms and slang are absolutely amazing for a non-American. Makes one wonder if you are who you say you are. Russian money laundering is a bit of stereotype, and if you scammed everyone and disappeared...well that is to be expected when dealing with shady characters from Eastern Europe, right 'comrade'?

Not all are short term optimizers, comrade Smiley

Also, once again, Republic Belarus is (regrettably as a matter of fact) not Russia.
In fact, I can't seem to find where you have been posting in any other language except English. Hmmmm....

А навошта мне пісаць на іншых мовах?

Кожны можа выкарыстоўваць Google Translate, таварыш Wink

But I am convinced you are Belorussian, an American would not have corrected me so many times. As I said above, it was intentional.
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September 28, 2011, 08:11:23 PM
 #25

Belo-russian, pretty puhleez.

And so far, your argument boils down to "it will be so because I say so". I think that's a fairly poor argument.

And yours boils down to "It will be ok because I say so...look a squirrel!". I think that is a fairly poor rebuttal.

No, my argument does not include a rebuttal.

My argument boils down to pointing out over and over and over that your statements are just opinions of some anonymous dude who hypothetically might be American.

Also, I occasionally point out that very straightforward laundering schemes exist with other digital "sortakinda notreally moneysez" and so far resulted in 0 convictions.
OH WAIT A SECOND! Now that I think of it, the latter is actually an empirical rebuttal of your entire argument.

Game over, man. Game over.

 


Again it is painfully obvious you have no grasp of the US legal system or how it works.

Again its painfully obvious that you just make trite assertions Cheesy

 I encourage any Americans reading this thread to consult a legal professional, even if it is an informal friend of a friend type of deal and discuss 'Conspiracy' laws. Anyone who has any regular dealings with the Federal courts in the US will know about them. You are right, they shouldn't trust me, and they damn sure shouldn't trust you.

Consulting a lawyer never hurts, that I could get behind (lol agreement in intertube argument, even if a minor one..APOCALYPSE COMETH!  Cheesy).

Srsly, Americans, always consult lawyers.

A Belorussian on the internet and an attorney at lol are telling you, in unison Smiley

Actually it is, as well as other skillz. The phrasing was intentional. Your response to it says a lot. BTW, I notice President Lukashenko got 79% of the vote in the last election. He must be a really a great guy to get that much support from his people.  Grin

He pre-mined votes via so-called "thugs" trick Cheesy


No, but there are people doing time for money laundering with another digital currency, E-gold

E-gold had guaranteed equivalence to USD and a central issuer.

Game-gold and exotic abstract "units" spawned by eldritch mathematications do not have any guaranteed value  and of those two the abstract cryptothingies lack even a formal issuer.




You might want to read that article and take some notes. It is far more analgous to LolCoins than WoW or Lindens.

Yeah, so I can be guaranteed that a legal entity will recognize my TBX or something as a form of USD equivalent ? Puh-leeez, they have no guaranteed equivalence to anything, much like baseball cards, exotic postage stamps and other shenanigans like that (all of which can be stupidly expensive in some markets, btw)

In fact, unlike egold (or even lindens) them crypto-thingies don't have a formal issuer, which kinda disqualifies them from being "real monies" (or at least, makes them "less money than WoW gold")

But I am convinced you are Belorussian, an American would not have corrected me so many times. As I said above, it was intentional.

Well, at least that is settled

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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September 28, 2011, 09:31:55 PM
 #26

But how do you dry it without wrinkling it.
With Bounty, of course  Grin
For the benefit of the readers who never visited the USA:

Bounty is the market-leading brand of the clothes-dryer sheets.

Cute joke, but somewhat inside-ry.


Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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September 28, 2011, 09:33:08 PM
 #27

But how do you dry it without wrinkling it.
With Bounty, of course  Grin
For the benefit of the readers who never visited the USA:

Bounty is the market-leading brand of the clothes-dryer sheets.

Cute joke, but somewhat inside-ry.



Ah thanks.

Now it is indeed funny.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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September 28, 2011, 09:38:47 PM
 #28

Lupus_Yonderboy, did you get your law degree by watching Judging Amy reruns? I mean, man... huh, congratulations must be in order. Smiley Good boy, job well done!
But you know what, passing your bar exam in you basement, while jerking of to a Sears catalogue, will most definitely qualify you for some rants in obscure forums like this particular one.

Do you have a 900 number? I really like to have you on a retainer. You newer know, when one needs some hot air blown up ones ass.
Keep up the good job, boy!


While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 28, 2011, 11:03:02 PM
 #29

gGFR4biTGgiXw1Nvuv4GVYkwUiaguz2t6w

Wink

Have fun in prison!



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September 28, 2011, 11:04:31 PM
 #30

gGFR4biTGgiXw1Nvuv4GVYkwUiaguz2t6w

Wink
Have fun in prison!

Ah yessss, indeed, indeeed Wink

Quickly Yonderboy, burn your mining rig before the CIA comes in its trademark Black Choppah Wink






 

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September 28, 2011, 11:08:06 PM
 #31

gGFR4biTGgiXw1Nvuv4GVYkwUiaguz2t6w

Wink

Have fun in prison!




bwuahahaha, too classic

OP you're in the same boat as we are now!  Roll Eyes

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September 28, 2011, 11:11:47 PM
 #32

gGFR4biTGgiXw1Nvuv4GVYkwUiaguz2t6w

Wink

Have fun in prison!




bwuahahaha, too classic

OP you're in the same boat as we are now!  Roll Eyes

He'll make a deal and rat us out! We must stop him!

Quick, find me a hitman that accepts Geist Gelds ! ! ! Cheesy

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
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September 29, 2011, 12:35:44 AM
 #33

gGFR4biTGgiXw1Nvuv4GVYkwUiaguz2t6w

Wink

Have fun in prison!




bwuahahaha, too classic

OP you're in the same boat as we are now!  Roll Eyes

He'll make a deal and rat us out! We must stop him!

Quick, find me a hitman that accepts Geist Gelds ! ! ! Cheesy

That was before you were forced to admit that you had premined 7.7 million coins for your money laundering operation. Once I found out about that I wiped the usb key containing GG and chucked it in a river.

The idea that a Belorussian could authoritatively hold forth on the US legal system is completely laughable. It would be like an American trying to give a Belorussian legal advice about what is and is not legal in Belarus. Here is the deal, I could care less if you scam these fanbois out of their btcs. Really. There is a sucker born every minute and there is an extremely high amount of suckers in this community, all trying to get rich quick on the next big thing. I really don't care if you take all their money. But there is the very real danger that your money laundering op can get people put in prison who have done nothing more than mine your chains. The fallout from that isn't just going to effect your pet chains either, but all of them, including Bitcoin. Because when they crack down, they are not going to differentiate between 27 different flavors of blockchain based cryptocurrencies. Everybody suffers.

Hmmmm, perhaps this is how you plan to take down Bitcoin. Maybe you are CH in disguise.
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September 29, 2011, 12:44:25 AM
 #34


That was before you were forced to admit that you had premined 7.7 million coins for your money laundering operation. Once I found out about that I wiped the usb key containing GG and chucked it in a river.



Nope.  I was one of the first ones to get on GG, and that 'fun-d' was mentioned in the OP. ("If it lasts longer than x days, I want to try this idea...").

Don't worry though, we can be cell-mates!

Edit: If anything, I'd wager you're CH, as CH has plenty of motive to use oh-so-similar scare tactics on GG/TB.  But I don't have that big of a tinfoil hat Wink

...

THIS MESSAGE WILL SELF-DESTRUCT IN 3,2,1... *poof*

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September 29, 2011, 06:09:34 AM
 #35

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September 29, 2011, 07:00:10 AM
 #36

Started trading on a pair of GG / BTC

Commission is 0.3% per transaction.

https://btc-e.com/gg_exchanger

Bitcoin \ Litecoin \ Namecoin \ Novacoin <-> Exchange btc-e.com

BTC-E.com // Биржа по автоматической торговле Bitcoin \ Litecoin \ Namecoin \ Novacoin <-> Exchange btc-e.com
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September 29, 2011, 07:03:49 AM
 #37

 But there is the very real danger that your money laundering op can get people put in prison who have done nothing more than mine your chains. The fallout from that isn't just going to effect your pet chains either, but all of them, including Bitcoin.  

We have already found that your claims are completely unsubstantiated and not supported by actual cases involving pseudo-monetary constructs.

We now also know that you never read first posts to the end even if the text is fucking bolded Smiley

Any services ?

Assuming it lives past day 4, there will be exchanges, pools, and a wonderful laundry service that guarantees 100% squeaky clean GeistGeld (mined, no history attached)

Lupus, y u no read  Tongue ?

Maybe you are CH in disguise.

No, actually I'm Satoshi pretending to be a Belorussian with (admittedly) limited grasp of coding and a penchant for x-coinsez.  Wink

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
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September 29, 2011, 11:12:58 AM
 #38

 But there is the very real danger that your money laundering op can get people put in prison who have done nothing more than mine your chains. The fallout from that isn't just going to effect your pet chains either, but all of them, including Bitcoin.  

We have already found that your claims are completely unsubstantiated and not supported by actual cases involving pseudo-monetary constructs.

We now also know that you never read first posts to the end even if the text is fucking bolded Smiley

Any services ?

Assuming it lives past day 4, there will be exchanges, pools, and a wonderful laundry service that guarantees 100% squeaky clean GeistGeld (mined, no history attached)

Lupus, y u no read  Tongue ?

Maybe you are CH in disguise.

No, actually I'm Satoshi pretending to be a Belorussian with (admittedly) limited grasp of coding and a penchant for x-coinsez.  Wink

You edited your first post after you restarted the blockchain. Hell, you edited it several times in between starts. So really, cut the crap.

You aren't Satoshi. You aren't fit to lick Satoshi's shorts. You are a Belorussian scammer who has managed to convince a whole 20-30 suckers to mine your scamcoins. Again, I don't care if you take their money/clock cycles, they deserve it.  They do not deserve to spend time in a prison for your greed tho. That was the point.

Good luck
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September 29, 2011, 11:17:05 AM
 #39

There is no need for caution or humility in my statements, because I know I am right.

I stopped reading after that part. Go take a long walk off a short cliff.

But I am right, Matthew. You will not find anyone who practices Federal Law in the US that will give a qualified legal opinion contrary to what I have stated. Disliking the messenger or the manner in which it is delivered does not change the truth.

Have a nice day
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September 29, 2011, 11:18:45 AM
 #40

There is no need for caution or humility in my statements, because I know I am right.

I stopped reading after that part. Go take a long walk off a short cliff.

But I am right, Matthew.

 Roll Eyes And I am Satoshi.

Maybe if I will post it a million times it will get a million times more true, right ?

You will not find anyone who practices Federal Law in the US that will give a qualified legal opinion contrary to what I have stated.

Yes, because you can provide us with such a person's opinion, signed and in writing, right here ?


You edited your first post after you restarted the blockchain. Hell, you edited it several times in between starts

Fortunately, moderatorz have all of them edits sitting in the DB, so you can PM them and settle this for good.


You aren't Satoshi.

This claim is problematic to prove Wink or disprove Wink

Everyone can actually be Satoshi, nobody knows where he is or what he's up to.

He has become a Spiritus Loci Cheesy

They do not deserve to spend time in a prison for your greed tho

Worry not, they won't, because your opinion is not of a court or legal expert, and hardly of any merit (they should of course talk to a real attorney at law, that never hurts)

Good day to you, sir.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
NMC: N6YQFkH9Gn9CTm4mpGwuLB5zLzqWTWFw67
BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
GEG: gK5Lx6ypWgr69Gw9yGzE6dsA7kcuCRZRK
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