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Author Topic: [Suggestion]Solving the spam problem with a "Report Score" for bad reports.  (Read 478 times)
iasenko
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July 05, 2018, 08:49:07 AM
Last edit: November 02, 2018, 12:14:00 PM by iasenko
Merited by suchmoon (5), LoyceV (3), pooya87 (2), Jet Cash (2), d5000 (1), Piggy (1), bitmover (1), Silent26 (1)
 #1

Here is my idea how to deal with the spammers with a very easy approach. It's just a quick scratch up.

We already have a working "Report to Mods" system and all the stats we have now are only informative, lets put those stats into work.
In addition to Merit and Trust, we can have a new measure - "Report score" /I can't come with a better name/.

Report score is a calculation of the activity, merit, post count and the amount of bad reports you have received when somebody reported you. - For example if your post have been reported for spamming, and the Mods delete it, then you get 1 bad report. The calculation is based on this formula:

Code:
report_score= (((activity*1,2)+(airdrop_merit*1,1)+(received_merit*10)+(post_count*0,5))/bad_reports);

Normal score should be considers above 10.

If you have score below 10, the signatures can automatically be turned off.
Different penalties can be added based on the score.

The pros of this system are>
  • Easy to implement.
  • We already have the data of the reports
  • Your reports will matter and your time reporting is not wasted
  • It will be easy to spot spambots
  • No way to cheat the system as it is controlled by the mods
  • It can be tweaked in the future,
  • More people will start reporting
  • Eeasier for the bounty managers to spot spammers
  • Less spam and better content, more people will be aware of the rules and follow them

Cons >
  • Can be abused by the Mods/ not so easy of course/
  • More work for the mods Wink

@ Theymos, this system does not affect the freedom you are trying to maintain in the forum. All those reports and bans are already happening, just use them as a tool the help the others.

Basically I change my concept a bit and we can say that it's a bit more accurate now. It can be readjusted of course, this is just a proposal I came up with a few months ago.
The score doesn't need to have actual impact on the profiles, can be only informative.
All the information is in the code.
Don't judge my programming skills, I'm not a programmer but I get the things done when I need to.
Code:
// Calculating your reports score
// Everything below 10 should be considers as a bad score.

#include <iostream>
#include <iomanip>
using namespace std;
int main()
{
int activity; // The current activity. The higher activity you have the better is the score
int airdrop_merit; // The airdropped merit, again more airdropped merit is better.
int received_merit; // This is the merit you actually received, I put a more weight on it as it is the most reliable measure.  
int post_count; // Here is your post count, less weight on as I don't think it is that important, can change it to ratio between activity and post count.
int bad_reports; // Those are your posts reported by others and deleted by moderator, I can include the Deleted topics too but I have to think a bit more on it.
float report_score; // This is the report score, as I see it everything above 10 should be marked as normal.


cout << "\n"<< "----------------------------"<< "\n";
cout << "Calculating a report score"<< "\n";
cout << "-----------------------------"<< "\n";
cout << "Enter activity: ";
cin >> activity;
cout << "Enter airdroped merit: ";
cin >> airdrop_merit;
cout << "Enter received merit: ";
cin >> received_merit;
cout << "Enter post count: ";
cin >> post_count;
cout << "Enter bad_reports: ";
cin >> bad_reports;
report_score= (((activity*1.2)+(airdrop_merit*1.1)+(received_merit*10)+(post_count*0.5))/bad_reports);
cout << fixed;
        cout << setprecision(2);
cout << "Your bad report score is :" << report_score;
cout<<"\n";

return main();
}

Everyone can test the code here > http://cpp.sh/8hvk6 the deleted posts by mods you can find in Vod's https://bpip.org/ project.

Updated the formula.

THE OLD POST
Here is my idea how to deal with the spammers with a very easy approach. It's just a quick scratch up.

We already have a working "Report to Mods" system and all the stats we have now are only informative, lets put those stats into work.
In addition to Merit and Trust, we can have a new measure - "Report score" /I can't come with a better name/.

Report score is the amount of bad reports you have received when somebody reported you. - For example if your post have been reported for spamming, and the Mods mark it as a "good", then you get one negative point.
Those points are just for example
If you have 3 negative points, the signatures are automatically turned off.
If you have 10 negative points you are automatically banned.
For the every rule you can have a different weight like for plagiarism you get directly 3 points, and autoban for 7 days / OK permaban/. Those are just example values can be adjusted, the principle is important.
Also the pointing system can be Rank or post-count-dependent like for instance  3 bad reports for a Legendary with 10000 posts  compared to 3 bad reports for a Newbie with 50 posts, need to have different Weight.

The pros of this system are>
  • Easy to implement.
  • We already have the data of the reports
  • Your reports will matter and your time reporting is not wasted
  • It will be easy to spot spambots
  • No way to cheat the system as it is controlled by the mods
  • It can be tweaked in the future,
  • More people will start reporting
  • Eeasier for the bounty managers to spot spammers
  • Less spam and better content, more people will be aware of the rules and follow them

Cons >
  • Can be abused by the Mods/ not so easy of course/
  • More work for the mods Wink

@ Theymos, this system does not affect the freedom you are trying to maintain in the forum. All those reports and bans are already happening, just use them as a tool the help the others.

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July 05, 2018, 09:02:10 AM
 #2

Cons >
  • More work for the mods Wink
You said it bro  Grin
You don't want to make their life hell, do you?

By the way, sounds good to me. Both the reporter (in favor) and who get reported (against) will have impact. The forum will look pretty clean.

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July 05, 2018, 09:04:13 AM
 #3

I like the idea but I'd suggest one little tweak. The score should be proportional to the number of posts made. Someone that's been here for years and made thousands of posts is almost bound to have had a few deleted. So someone with 10 deleted posts out of 5000 isn't as bad as someone with 10 deleted posts out of 50.

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July 05, 2018, 09:08:28 AM
 #4

It's certainly an interesting idea, and it may encourage more reporting of bad posting habits.

If we can get rid of annoying posts like this one from a hero who has yet to earn any merit.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4388663.msg39131924#msg39131924

It was bad enough that the opening post included that massive image, rather than linking to it. But to quote it in full, and then reply with a comment that is basically the repeat of a previously posted opinion, just clogs up the thread, and adds no value. Obviously the poster is a sig spammer, and I'm sure that the risk of the temporary removal of signature rights would go a long way towards improving the quality of his posting. As a hero, merit will be of no interest to him, unless bounty managers insist on merited posters.

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July 05, 2018, 09:10:48 AM
Last edit: July 05, 2018, 03:13:47 PM by Silent26
 #5

Not bad. I certainly like the idea but like one of it's cons which is "More work for the Mods" there is a conflict that they will agree on this. Moderators are having bad times busting spammers everyday and I'm sure that they're pretty busy in other stuffs, I don't think they can still manage to do this task, but who knows? Maybe they can.
How many members are here in the forum and how many reports are  being generated everyday, even old reports are not yet handled. It's just my opinion, and I think Moderators will busier if this idea was implemented. But overall, I like it. I'm just worried about our Mods, they're humans too and they can feel tiredness too.

Actually I have something in mind, but I'm not done yet concluding it.

Quote

Less spam and better content, more people will be aware of the rules and follow them
I don't think spammer will learn their lesson even though this idea was implemented. There are already a lot of spammers before Merit System was introduced, and merit system's goal is to somehow lessen spammers. But like what we can see, spammers are still all around the forum and still posting garbages and like before, they are still not following the rules. The Merit system just prevent them from ranking but they're still doing the same bad thing.  I don't think that this "pro" will work, I don't think that they will start to be aware to the forum rules just because of this, but still, I'm looking forward for the implementation of this idea Smiley


Edit.
A little off-topic but I also would like to congratulate you for becoming a Sr. Member. Just don't forget who gave you your 250th Merit  Tongue I wonder what would be the look of that kid in your avatar when you reached Hero or even Legendary.

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July 05, 2018, 09:12:29 AM
 #6

I like the idea but I'd suggest one little tweak. The score should be proportional to the number of posts made. Someone that's been here for years and made thousands of posts is almost bound to have had a few deleted. So someone with 10 deleted posts out of 5000 isn't as bad as someone with 10 deleted posts out of 50.

Yes I was thinking about it too but to have a different weight base on the Rank, now that you mention it I like your suggestion too, I will add it to the OP.

Not bad. I certainly like the idea but like one of it's cons which is "More work for the Mods" there is a conflict that they will agree on this. Moderators are having bad times busting spammers everyday and I'm sure that they're pretty busy in other stuffs, I don't think they can still manage to do this task, but who knows? ~

Well they don't have to do anything, I was thinking about the report page, when the new changes come, as Welsh suggested, to have drop down menu with choosing what to report, then the system automatically will mark it as as Spam , Plagiarism, Homographs etc. and it will reward the points based on the reports.
The more work will come from the more reports that gonna come, as many people here are tired of spam will start reporting more often when they see that there is an impact on the spammers.

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July 05, 2018, 09:57:37 AM
 #7

I got between 5 and 10 posts deleted since I am a member (it wasn't some shit posts btw,I'm not angry at all. I think mods are just jealous because I am too cute  Grin Cheesy ).
By following your example I could have been banned since Sad I am not bragging but I don't think I am a boring member who deserve to be fired

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July 05, 2018, 10:18:06 AM
 #8

Deleted posts doesn't mean that they were reported. I often write in bad threads just to note the OP that the thread is reported and it will be removed, so I aslo get a lot of my posts deleted. Same as deleting spammy mega-threads won't affect your score if you have some posts deleted, because nobody reported your post personally. 
The idea is that the users themselves will be responsible to report the spammers, this will help to build a better community.


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July 05, 2018, 11:06:58 AM
 #9

Another little feature I would suggest is to let a timeframe play a role. Crappy posters that are often reported will soon enough encounter all the punishments rules set to counterbalance their acts, but as time goes by, so can they/some/one amend.
I’m thinking specifically of the signature that automatically gets turned off. It could be automatically turned back on (with a blank value) if no more reports of a kind are marked as valid in a given windows timeframe (or the moving running total that triggers events is counted within a certain window timeframe).

P.D. Congrats on becoming a "Sir Member" "Sr. Member"!

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July 05, 2018, 11:14:29 AM
 #10

Another little feature I would suggest is to let a timeframe play a role. Crappy posters that are often reported will soon enough encounter all the punishments rules set to counterbalance their acts, but as time goes by, so can they/some/one amend.
I’m thinking specifically of the signature that automatically gets turned off. It could be automatically turned back on (with a blank value) if no more reports of a kind are marked as valid in a given windows timeframe (or the moving running total that triggers events is counted within a certain window timeframe).

P.D. Congrats on becoming a "Sir Member" "Sr. Member"!


I was thinking about the time-frame too, but this is up to Theymos to decide if he actually like the whole idea.
There is a plenty room for tweaking and development here. It's just a way to use the already existing system instead a build one from scratch.

Thank you, few months ago I never thought that I would rank up again this year but .. now it's time to change my avatar Smiley

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July 05, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
 #11


For the every rule you can have a different weight like for plagiarism you get directly 3 points, and autoban for 7 days.
I'm sure this was just as an example, but I would hope plagiarism is still a 1 way trip to Permaban town.

I'm wondering what reports would you want to see on the list. For instance Off-topic, these can be spam and completely off base, or they can be a mini conversation within a thread for a few posts. I'm fine with the latter as it gives a conversational community feel. There's also "Low-quality" reports, and these again can be subjective. These are the types of "grey" area posts I could see creating a greater workload for the Mods.

Quote
Snipped
  • Your reports will matter and your time reporting is not wasted
  • No way to cheat the system as it is controlled by the mods
  • More people will start reporting
  • Less spam and better content, more people will be aware of the rules and follow them


Overall I like the idea, and I like the optimism.

Unless people can carry their own reporting score as a badge, I don't see anyone who doesn't already feel like their reports are doing something, gaining that sense. This kind of ties into the "more people will start reporting", I feel like if they aren't already doing so this won't change many peoples minds.The fact that there are penalties that weren't previously there may bring in a few more reporters, which would be a benefit.

In instances like the "grey" areas I mentioned above, vindictive people could use this system to try and target a user and create an abundance of reports against them. Typing that I also realized we may need to limit the ability to make reporting if abused,  as this new system may generate reporting spam to gum up the system. Again vindictive people will do almost anything.

I don't think the system would necessarily reduce the spam, the punishments would though. The loss of a Sig, would stop most  accounts from posting that are just here for the Sig money, but they will also probably just create a new account as it's not Ban evading, unless tied into that somehow.

I would like to think that this would open peoples eyes to following the rules, but look at how many plagiarism threads we see about account bans. Still daily there are reports of plagiarism flowing in. I think more likely this will be the next flood of threads taking over Meta: Where my Sig? What is spam ban? NAzi Mod removed my Sig, because jealous etc.

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July 06, 2018, 11:04:16 PM
 #12

The whole idea is to discourage the spamers. I know that they "work" hard here and they won't give up that easily but it might work.

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July 06, 2018, 11:19:09 PM
 #13

If you have 3 negative points, the signatures are automatically turned off.
If you have 10 negative points you are automatically banned.
For the every rule you can have a different weight like for plagiarism you get directly 3 points, and autoban for 7 days.
Also the pointing system can be Rank or post-count-dependent like for instance  3 bad reports for a Legendary with 10000 posts  compared to 3 bad reports for a Newbie with 50 posts, need to have different Weight.
I tend to get off-topic a few times(accidentally) and I have sense of feeling that I get reported. I like this idea, but while these points be public? Public as in everyone can see it? That better not be the case, people might not like it. If this report score can be private and if members get the opportunity to see which of their posts get reported, that'd be helpful for those who are willing to learn from their mistakes.

Spammers won't be discouraged. Not until signature campaigns and bounties exist. Why would spammers care about the report score if they keep only shitposting. Even if they get banned, they move on and create another account. 

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July 07, 2018, 01:13:40 AM
 #14

    Cons >
    • Can be abused by the Mods/ not so easy of course/
    I don't think those mods would be the one to be abusive around here if this was to be implemented. As you already said, the current report to moderator is working fine, with this, mods are doing superb jobs with handling all those reports.

    Therefore, the people that would be abusing this would be the members/users as well.
    Example:
    Scenario:
    I tend to get off-topic a few times(accidentally) and I have sense of feeling that I get reported.
    Abuse: Members with multiple accounts or have friends to support them can and would connive to throw another member out. Of course as the reporter they'd know if the report was accepted or not, then proceed with another member reporting this user again.

    @pugman This scenario can pretty much happen even if report scores are private



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    July 07, 2018, 01:46:59 AM
     #15

    -snip-
    Why would spammers care about the report score if they keep only shitposting. Even if they get banned, they move on and create another account.  

    Even if they can create another account, the amount of money that they will get from the signature campaign will be much less than before. They'll also have a hard time to increase their ranks cause activity alone is not enough, they'll need merits. (I think this has been mentioned by steamtyname up there)

    Because report score is related to their posting quality, they'll naturally get forced to be more careful when they post. They will 'work' to make sure they don't get banned because they're spamming.

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    July 07, 2018, 05:05:15 AM
     #16

    Spammers won't be discouraged. Not until signature campaigns and bounties exist. Why would spammers care about the report score if they keep only shitposting. Even if they get banned, they move on and create another account. 
    Not if signature campaign is only allow from member and up. Or to Jr. member as well if a couple of merits was needed in order to reach Jr. rank. Any newly created account would be useless for sig bounties. That could encourage people to take better care of their account. By not having a bad "report score" for example.



    Anyway, I like this idea. The merit system is great, it prevent people from ranking up, but it doesn't prevent people from spamming and creating new accounts. This could provide a nice and needed addition to the merit system.

    Ps: I added your idea to my list of propositions to clean up the forum. I hope you don't mind. I am trying to regroup every interesting ideas that could be implemented.
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    July 07, 2018, 05:47:04 AM
     #17

    Are you going to fix the title or what? rapports facking lol. how many times are you going to suggest things about reporting etc? we already know you are one of the top reporters. theymos already changed the accuracy calculator to give more incentive to people in order for them to report without worrying too much about the accuracy. this is not a contest to see who is better, just contribute where you can.

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    July 07, 2018, 07:26:58 AM
     #18

    Are you going to fix the title or what? rapports facking lol. how many times are you going to suggest things about reporting etc?

    Thanks man for correcting me, forgot to change from Norwegian to English while I'm on the phone, so autocorrect is not helping. I love reading your trolly work Wink.
    As you said, I do what I can to help the forum.
    Btw, I'm faaaar from being top reporter but I'm tired of all those meaningless commets as everyone else.


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    July 07, 2018, 09:10:24 AM
     #19

    If you have 3 negative points, the signatures are automatically turned off.
    If you have 10 negative points you are automatically banned.
    Say you hate me: I have 4927 posts. If you go read them all, chances are you can find 3 (or 10) bad ones. Or even better: more than 3 of my posts have been deleted by moderators already, in over 3 years on this forum.
    Does that mean I deserve a ban? I don't think so, and I've never been banned.

    Quote
    For the every rule you can have a different weight like for plagiarism you get directly 3 points, and autoban for 7 days.
    Plagiarism gets you a permanent ban instantly. There's no need to lower the punishment.

    Quote
    For the every rule you can have a different weight like for plagiarism you get directly 3 points, and autoban for 7 days.
    Also the pointing system can be Rank or post-count-dependent like for instance  3 bad reports for a Legendary with 10000 posts  compared to 3 bad reports for a Newbie with 50 posts, need to have different Weight.
    Agreed Cheesy
    But this shouldn't be automated. Question for the Mods: does Bitcointalk keep track of bad posts per person, say a hidden field in the profile only visible for Mods? If it doesn't, I think this should be implemented, so Mods can easily see who's a repeat offender, and take action based on that.
    A Newbie posting a referal link isn't a big problem, if he learns from it and stops posting them. I too had the great idea to earn money from posting a few referal links when I was a Newbie, until I got all of them back as Deleted Post in my PM:
    Code:
    Read June 30, 2015, 09:57:35 PM Deleted Post Bitcoin Forum
    Read July 01, 2015, 08:11:10 AM Deleted Post Bitcoin Forum
    Read July 01, 2015, 12:49:47 PM Deleted Post Bitcoin Forum
    For the record: I didn't have a signature at that time. But I stopped posting reflinks.
    If, however, a user doesn't learn from it and keeps spamming, he deserves a ban.

    In the past year, some of my posts were deleted, when I answered a technical question which turned out to be a necrobump. I'm more careful now, but I don't think I deserve a punishment for that.

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    July 07, 2018, 09:38:25 AM
     #20

    Say you hate me: I have 4927 posts. If you go read them all, chances are you can find 3 (or 10) bad ones. Or even better: more than 3 of my posts have been deleted by moderators already, in over 3 years on this forum.
    Does that mean I deserve a ban? I don't think so, and I've never been banned.

    That's why I suggested above that the score should be proportional to the number of posts made. I accumulated a lot of deleted posts from replying to posts that were deleted as the moderators often clean up all resulting posts as well as the spam post. That was when I used to tell spammers off before I worked out what the report button was for.

    does Bitcointalk keep track of bad posts per person, say a hidden field in the profile only visible for Mods? If it doesn't, I think this should be implemented

    I'd like to know that as well. If someone is getting a high proportion of their posts deleted then that's an indication the forum would be better off without them. If someone with 5000 posts has had 20 deleted it probably isn't an issue.

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