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Author Topic: It's high time we end Forign aid to Israel.  (Read 6297 times)
strunberg (OP)
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February 12, 2014, 04:41:25 AM
 #1

 let's go down the rabbit hole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_spies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Cohen_%28Soviet_spy%29
>Cohen


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Gold
Gold was born in Switzerland to Russian Jewish immigrants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Greenglass
http://www.nndb.com/people/527/000088263/
Religion: Jewish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Hall
Theodore Alvin Holtzberg was born in Far Rockaway, New York City to a devout Jewish couple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Koval
George Koval's father, Abram Koval, left his home town of Telekhany in Belarus to emigrate to the United States in 1910. Abram, a carpenter, settled in Sioux City, Iowa, which at the turn of the 20th century was home to a sizeable Jewish population of merchants and craftsmen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Lerner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerner
Lerner is a German family name. It also can be surname of German-Jewish due to the fact that the Jews were taking the names of those nations depending where they settled. Its literal meaning can be either "student" or "scholar".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethel_and_Julius_Rosenberg
Julius Rosenberg was born to a family of Jewish immigrants in New York City

http://mobile.myjewishlearning.com/history/Modern_History/1914-1948/American_Jewry_Between_the_Wars/Radical_Politics/Rosenbergs.shtml
When the Rosenbergs were charged with spying, American Jews feared an anti-Semitic
backlash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saville_Sax
Saville Sax was born in New York City on July 26, 1924 and went by the name of Sarry Sax. He was the son of Bernard Sax (1896–1936) and Bluma Sax (1895–1986). Bluma and Bernard were both born in Russia, of Jewish ancestry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Sobell
Morton Sobell was born into a Jewish family in New York City.


9 out of 11 spies that are involved with atomic weapons were Jewish



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http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html

Israel has sold advanced military technology to China for more than a decade and is moving to expand its cooperation with Beijing, says R. James Woolsey, the Director of Central
Intelligence.

The C.I.A. assessment was provided in written responses to questions by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee. The committee made the assessment public last week as part of a report on recent hearings it conducted on "proliferation threats of the 1990's," a committee aide said on Monday.

There have been many news reports about the sale of Israeli military technology to China, which did not establish diplomatic relations with Israel until 1992, and the Rand Corporation has made similar assessments. The C.I.A.'s response to the committee was reported on Monday by NBC News and confirmed by the aide. Jets, Missiles and Tanks

The C.I.A. says China has been acquiring advanced military technology from Israel for more than a decade on programs for jet fighters, air-to-air missiles and tanks. The agency said the sale of Israeli military technology to China "may be several billion dollars."


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http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/136348/china-israel-united-states
---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/26/AR2005062600544.html
JERUSALEM, June 26 -- Under pressure from the Bush administration, Israel has agreed to cancel an arms deal with China and allow U.S. officials to review its future weapons transactions in an effort to resolve tension between Jerusalem and Washington, usually in lockstep over security matters.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-accused-of-selling-us-secrets-to-china-1510406.html
ISRAEL has sold at least dollars 2bn ( pounds 1.3bn) to dollars 3bn of hi-tech military equipment to China, seriously undermining US efforts to limit the sale of advanced weapons to the Chinese. A Senate report due out later this week says the Israeli exports include military technology developed by the US, and which Washington expressly forbids from being exported to China.

Officials accompanying Israel's Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, on a visit to China confirmed that Israel had done deals but would not elaborate. The CIA told the committee the Chinese were seeking from Israel technologies that Western firms were unwilling to provide.

Those sold by Israel are said by specialists to include technology for the Python - the Israeli version of the US Sparrow air-to-air missile - and technology developed for the US-financed Lavi jet, which the Israelis cancelled some years ago.

The US is also concerned that Israel may have passed on technology for the Arrow anti-missile missile, a joint US-Israel project, which is based on the Patriot missile used in the Gulf war.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

>2011

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/finland-probes-ship-full-of-patriot-missiles-explosives-bound-for-shanghai/


Finnish police launched a probe on a ship bound for Shanghai, China, after they discovered 69 surface-to-air Patriot missiles, explosive materials, and propelling charges illegally aboard.

The British-registered ship in question, Thor Liberty, underwent a customs search at the port of Kotka (around 120-km from Helsinki) and discovered the Raytheon-produced Patriot missiles, and a 150 ton load of improperly packed nitroguanidine, a low level sensitive explosive possessing high detonation speed.

The team hopes to determine the reasoning behind the military cache shipment to the port city of Shanghai.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/20/opinion/if-israel-sold-patriot-secrets.html
>1992



Quote
The United States rushed Patriot missiles to Israel during the Persian Gulf war to defend against incoming Iraqi Scuds. Now intelligence reports say Israel sold Patriot technology to China[/color]. If so, that would violate Israel's obligation not to transfer cutting-edge U.S. technology to others -- a dismaying act by a valued ally.

The reports provide ammunition to Israel-bashers. And they disturb experts concerned with keeping control of advanced military technologies. Washington has long shown extraordinary tolerance toward Israeli transfers of American technology, raising doubts about U.S. commitment to stopping the spread of arms. If the latest reports prove true, Washington needs to impose stern sanctions on Israel and the companies involved.

Israel, of course, has the know-how to produce advanced weapons on its own. It sells many of them to China and other nations to offset the costs of defending itself. But installing U.S. components in such exports would violate its obligations. So would reverse engineering -- taking a U.S. weapon apart to discover its design secrets and then making a copy for sale to others.

Any such sale cheats American defense contractors who jealously guard their patents and markets. It also frustrates officials who are justifiably concerned about arms proliferation.

Sometimes it's difficult to draw the line. Take the Israeli-built Python-3 air-to-air missile. To some U.S. officials it looks suspiciously like a knock-off of an American design, the heat-seeking AIM-9L Sidewinder. Others are persuaded that the Israelis designed it themselves.

Israel sold the Python-3 to China. China in turn designed its own version, called the PL-8, and sold some to Iraq. The Israeli version uses American parts, which it buys with U.S. military aid. But Israel contends it replaced those parts in the version exported to China -- a claim accepted by some U.S. officials. The same U.S. officials don't think that's the case with Patriot technology.

Even when Israel has clearly violated U.S. export controls, American officials have declined to crack down. In a notorious case last fall, an Israeli-owned company exported American ballistic missile components to a South African company and used them in its own Jericho-2 missile.

The Administration imposed trade sanctions on the South African company, but waived them for the Israelis. In exchange it wrested a pledge from Israel to accept international controls against further missile proliferation.

But the bargain may have perpetuated the belief that Israel could transfer U.S. technology without retribution. Now comes the alleged sale of Patriot technology. That would be dangerous because knowledge of how the Patriot works could be used to design missiles that defeat it.

Official Israeli responses suggest the Administration may have winked again. "We have ironclad commitments . . . not to transfer American weapons technology to any country, unless we have an agreement with the United States on that matter, " said Benjamin Netanyahu, an Israeli spokesman.

Did the Israelis transfer Patriot missile technology to China? Did the U.S. acquiesce? If the transfer took place without Administration consent, stern sanctions would send an appropriate message: fair punishment for all proliferators.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking about pollard
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/jonathan-pollard-kerry-israel/2013/12/29/id/544260#

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http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20140104000003
Israeli firms demand gov't ease limits on arms exports to China



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bryant.coleman
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February 12, 2014, 08:11:51 AM
 #2

Why should the American tax payers fund the Israelis?
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February 12, 2014, 07:42:43 PM
 #3

Why should the American tax payers fund the Israelis?

While I agree with the idea of cutting this type of aid to Israel, I was under the impression the Israelis had to spend that money in American military hardware; so isn't it more like "why should the American tax payers fund American private companies"?
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February 12, 2014, 10:10:18 PM
 #4

It really is high time to end foreign aid to Israel. But not because some spies may have had jewish roots. That's just stupid, not to mention blatantly anti-semitic.
The reason to end foreign aid is that the US is directly complicit in the numerous crimes against humanity committed by Israel on a daily basis, mostly against the Palestinian people. Israel must be boycotted, just like South Africa was, until it changes its ways. Don't let your silly conspiracy theories blind you to the real atrocities that are performed using American weapons.

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February 12, 2014, 11:04:39 PM
 #5

It's high time to end foreign aid, period.

It's high time to end government spending altogether.

It's high time everyone boycott government spending by withholding funding until the government learns what every household needs to stay alive: how to balance a fucking budget.

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February 22, 2014, 07:21:56 PM
 #6

Its time the US ends all foreign aid to ANY country.

BTW who is "We"? Not everyone is anti-Israel and not everyone is an American taxpayer,probably because many of us are not American.

It really is high time to end foreign aid to Israel. But not because some spies may have had jewish roots. That's just stupid, not to mention blatantly anti-semitic.
The reason to end foreign aid is that the US is directly complicit in the numerous crimes against humanity committed by Israel on a daily basis, mostly against the Palestinian people. Israel must be boycotted, just like South Africa was, until it changes its ways. Don't let your silly conspiracy theories blind you to the real atrocities that are performed using American weapons.

What "numerous crimes against humanity" exactly are you talking about?
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February 22, 2014, 10:01:21 PM
 #7

What "numerous crimes against humanity" exactly are you talking about?

Heh, you want a list? Because I don't think one forum post is going to cut it...

I recommend you spend 3 days in occupied Palestine. That should be more than enough time to experience some of these crimes first hand.

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February 22, 2014, 10:15:00 PM
 #8

What "numerous crimes against humanity" exactly are you talking about?

Heh, you want a list? Because I don't think one forum post is going to cut it...

I recommend you spend 3 days in occupied Palestine. That should be more than enough time to experience some of these crimes first hand.

10 Years is enough for you? i live in the area in fact.
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February 22, 2014, 10:50:12 PM
 #9

What "numerous crimes against humanity" exactly are you talking about?

Heh, you want a list? Because I don't think one forum post is going to cut it...

I recommend you spend 3 days in occupied Palestine. That should be more than enough time to experience some of these crimes first hand.

10 Years is enough for you? i live in the area in fact.

Well I don't know what "in the area" means in your case, but you either have no idea what's going on in the occupied Palestinian territories or you're ideologically inclined to see Israel as "the good guys" no matter what they actually do. Either way, I'm not going to waste any time trying to convince you.

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February 22, 2014, 10:52:31 PM
 #10

I reckon you could make a (very) strong case for saying that US Jews effectively own and control the US.

FWIW I reckon you could make a reasonable case that says US Jews effectively own and control the UK also - but to do that you'd have to have the info available to decipher ownership of UK companies listed on the stock exchange (this is very difficult btw - but one thing we can say for sure - once a company is listed, it goes to the highest bidder  Wink)

I'm not trying to make a big statement here - I'm definitely not an anti-semite and I know very little about Judaism - but the US did create Israel didn't they ?
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February 22, 2014, 11:06:08 PM
 #11

I reckon you could make a (very) strong case for saying that US Jews effectively own and control the US.

In a sense it's even worse than that - AIPAC and other Jewish lobbies have immense power in Washington, but there is much controversy within Jewish communities about whether these lobbies really represent the majority opinions of American Jews. Mostly these lobbies tend to support the Israeli government no matter what it does, and with apparently little regard to what US Jews actually think about what the Israeli government does.
So I reckon there is a strong case for saying that the US is controlled by Israel even more than it is controlled by US Jews.


but the US did create Israel didn't they ?

Not really... But they have been supporting it quite intensively since the 1960's.
The fault for creating Israel lies partially with you Brits, but that's another story altogether  Smiley

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strunberg (OP)
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February 23, 2014, 07:20:24 PM
 #12

Its time the US ends all foreign aid to ANY country.

BTW who is "We"? Not everyone is anti-Israel and not everyone is an American taxpayer,probably because many of us are not American.

It really is high time to end foreign aid to Israel. But not because some spies may have had jewish roots. That's just stupid, not to mention blatantly anti-semitic.
The reason to end foreign aid is that the US is directly complicit in the numerous crimes against humanity committed by Israel on a daily basis, mostly against the Palestinian people. Israel must be boycotted, just like South Africa was, until it changes its ways. Don't let your silly conspiracy theories blind you to the real atrocities that are performed using American weapons.

What "numerous crimes against humanity" exactly are you talking about?
Israel has been caught sterilizing their female African migrants

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MaxwellsDemon
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February 23, 2014, 08:45:47 PM
 #13

Israel has been caught sterilizing their female African migrants

Well, technically they weren't sterilized. They were strongly encouraged to take contraceptives as part of a (very aggressive) government-run planned-parenthood program, which specifically targeted African migrants with little education and a low socioeconomic status.
This is truly terrible, bordering on eugenics, but it pales in comparison to Israel's real crimes.

I remind you that this particular group of African migrants you're referring to is actually considered Jewish under Israeli law. They were brought to Israel from Ethiopia, and automatically given citizenship and government housing. In Israel's strongly racist society they are very much discriminated against due to the color of their skin, but they are still much, much better off than Palestinians. You do not want to be a Palestinian in Israel (or anywhere, for that matter).

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February 24, 2014, 03:19:22 AM
 #14

Israel has been caught sterilizing their female African migrants

Well, technically they weren't sterilized. They were strongly encouraged to take contraceptives as part of a (very aggressive) government-run planned-parenthood program, which specifically targeted African migrants with little education and a low socioeconomic status.
This is truly terrible, bordering on eugenics, but it pales in comparison to Israel's real crimes.

I remind you that this particular group of African migrants you're referring to is actually considered Jewish under Israeli law. They were brought to Israel from Ethiopia, and automatically given citizenship and government housing. In Israel's strongly racist society they are very much discriminated against due to the color of their skin, but they are still much, much better off than Palestinians. You do not want to be a Palestinian in Israel (or anywhere, for that matter).

Israel is such a nice country that instead of sending back it's illegal migrants back to their home countries. Israel dumps them in European countries, much against the people's will in those countries.

Israel for the Jewish people,Europe for everyone. I wonder how Israel would react if Sweden was buying one way tickets to Israel for illegal Migrants.





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DodoB
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February 24, 2014, 12:01:29 PM
 #15

I reckon you could make a (very) strong case for saying that US Jews effectively own and control the US.

In a sense it's even worse than that - AIPAC and other Jewish lobbies have immense power in Washington, but there is much controversy within Jewish communities about whether these lobbies really represent the majority opinions of American Jews. Mostly these lobbies tend to support the Israeli government no matter what it does, and with apparently little regard to what US Jews actually think about what the Israeli government does.
So I reckon there is a strong case for saying that the US is controlled by Israel even more than it is controlled by US Jews.


but the US did create Israel didn't they ?

Not really... But they have been supporting it quite intensively since the 1960's.
The fault for creating Israel lies partially with you Brits, but that's another story altogether  Smiley

I did not say Israel is the good guys,and im just going to say im very familiar with the area,and i've been in occupied Palestine, Have you? I guess not.
 No idea from where did you pull that that "Israel kicks black Jews and Arabs out" claim. You cant just throw lies in the air without a reliable source.
And about that ridiculous "International Jew Conspiracy".. it's a great laugh
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February 24, 2014, 02:54:30 PM
 #16

Israel will do fine without any help, but some of those with “wipe israel from the face fo the earth” might end up glass desert themselves.

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February 24, 2014, 08:42:49 PM
 #17

I did not say Israel is the good guys,and im just going to say im very familiar with the area,and i've been in occupied Palestine, Have you? I guess not.

Oh... Quite a bit more than you, I bet...
But it's not a contest. Everyone should come over to occupied Palestine and see for themselves, the more the merrier  Smiley


No idea from where did you pull that that "Israel kicks black Jews and Arabs out" claim. You cant just throw lies in the air without a reliable source.

That's not what I said.


And about that ridiculous "International Jew Conspiracy".. it's a great laugh

That's not what I said either. It IS pretty much what strunberg said, which is why I laughed at him.
Saying there's an international Jewish conspiracy is silly anti-semitism. Saying AIPAC have power on capitol hill is an understatement.

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February 24, 2014, 10:30:51 PM
 #18

I'm against any interventions in foreign countries unless there is a complete holocaust going on!
USA shouldn't make decisions for other countries and interfere in their diplomacy, they are too noisy.
Leave them to fight their own battles..

I don't have anything personal against the US or any foreign "aid" but as much as they are trying to show that they are enforcing peace all they do is enforce, which always damages one side  Undecided

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