[FUD] bye bitcoin, this is the end

[Holliday]

Oh, thank god! I can finally get back to being a slave.

[gambit1]

The thing is I felt sorry for him when he said he lost savings. I realize that this was a mistake. He is clearly a bad person.

[hilariousandco]

Why does everyone think the slightest bad news means "the end for bitcoin!"  Just because some people get arrested and there are bad media reports doesn't signal the end.  Just "growing pains" as some have put it.  People need to stop with the mentality that is "to the moon" or "its over."  BTC is gaining, even though the value in terms of USD may have taken a hit recently

This is how FUD-sters work, and also newbs who are just mad/jelly that they don't have any coins.

[kireinaha]

I once dismissed posters such as angrynerd to be a troll, but then others such as bitcoinsteve showed us this week that we should not outright dismiss their soothsaying powers. I'm worried this FUD may be true for 2014, and in short time, we may come to find that our precious coins are woth no more than the buffalo shit on a nickel. I hope it's not true, but this week has been really bad.

[TERA]

How is it going to crash with all that support on Bitstamp now? It's up to $18.5M now. It can't get even get past $630 on 5K dump and then even those bids quickly generate. FUD isn't enough - because the buyers have set up their algos on autopilot and probably aren't even reading the news. We need something else. An ARMY of bitcoins to dump. I'm enlisting an army of 200K coins to dump. Send to.. [wallet address to follow]

[traderCJ]

It's just one big speculator roulette wheel.  Nothing wrong with that, but don't think for a second that we couldn't drop to $400 in a week or bounce to $1000.  It's a crapshoot, almost literally, when the price is so far beyond what monetary velocity dictates.

[gambit1]

"I once dismissed posters such as angrynerd to be a troll, but then others such as bitcoinsteve showed us this week that we should not outright dismiss their soothsaying powers. I'm worried this FUD may be true for 2014, and in short time, we may come to find that our precious coins are woth no more than the buffalo shit on a nickel. I hope it's not true, but this week has been really bad."

When I bought my coins they were £2-4 so meh.

Bitcoin is so young friend. I say calm your nerves because there will be more extremely good and extremely bad weeks.

[MatTheCat]

How is it going to crash with all that support on Bitstamp now? It's up to $18.5M now. It can't get even get past $630 on 5K dump and then even those bids quickly generate. FUD isn't enough - because the buyers have set up their algos on autopilot and probably aren't even reading the news. We need something else. An ARMY of bitcoins to dump. I'm enlisting an army of 200K coins to dump. Send to.. [wallet address to follow]

In the relatively short time I have been paying close attention to the Bitcoin market, I have never seen such a massive Bid wall on Bitstamp. This might suggest that there are hoardes of buyers absolutely chomping at the bit for Bitcoins, but if that were the case, then why aren't they getting bought up and why are all those bids not chasing the spot price up the comparatively shallow Ask wall? From experience, I know that the Bid/Ask walls are very often not to be trusted. Is it the case that there is something to fear here and have all the troops been rallied to the Bid wall to defend Bitcoin against an in-coming threat, or is it a typical Buy/Sell wall confidence trick?

The most obvious conclusion from such a level of buy-in interest would be that Bitcoin is about to experience a rapid and voracious trend reversal with a huge amount of interest ready to push Bitcoin higher when the crunch time comes, but absolutely every other indicator at the moment is bearish. Just about every chart or TA indicator that you could care to name is bearish, sentiment is negative anyhow, and then there is the dire uncertainty of whether or not the exchanges book keeping systems or indeed the Bitcoin protocol itself, has been compromised. In light of all this, This 18.5M of Buy-ins is not coming even close to convincing me to enter the market at this level 'before the mad buying craze starts'. Actually, it's effect is quite the opposite.

EDIT: I have looked at Bitfinex where the buy-in wall is even more immense, but where i also know that it is possible to create massive Liar Walls using leveraged limit orders, even although the user/bot only is only capable of funding a small fraction of the total Bid's he has created. Although Bitfinex have taken away the option for traders to route their orders through Bitstamp in order that the resident shark bots can more effectively farm everyone's margin calls, I do know that a large portion of Bitfinex orders are still routed through Bitstamp. I would suspect that this massive Bid Wall registering on Bitstamp, is actually due to the massive Liar Walls on Bitfinex. In fact, I am sure that this is the case.

I will say it again, Bitfinex strikes me as a damn fucking dodgy exchange to be doing business on, whether the Bitfinex operators are fully aware of it or not.

"I once dismissed posters such as angrynerd to be a troll, but then others such as bitcoinsteve showed us this week that we should not outright dismiss their soothsaying powers. I'm worried this FUD may be true for 2014, and in short time, we may come to find that our precious coins are woth no more than the buffalo shit on a nickel. I hope it's not true, but this week has been really bad."

Soothsaying powers or foreknowledge of a big massive take-down hack attack that he has someone weaned from some darknet forum or rumours from people with access to such information or might even be involved in the perpetration of?

My concern is that perhaps the Bitcoin protocol itself hasn't been compromised (or perhaps it has), but rather that the exchanges book-keeping systems and the way they relate to the blockchain have. It now seems clear that MtGox have been robbed of Bitcoins and don't have the blockchain coins that their book-keeping system says that they do, and now perhaps the other USD exchanges also don't. Perhaps the big dump that affected BTC-E and Bitfinex, wasn't actually somebody mindlessly destroying their real wealth, but an act of hacker vandalism performed using exchange Bitcoin credits, which ended up triggering a whole pile of limit orders and margin calls. Perhaps this act was done as a test, or even as a warning shot intended to make Bitcoin whales nervous and more likely to behave in the manner that the attackers wish when they unleash the main event?

[chesthing]

I think that's the best explanation I've read for what occurred Monday Matt, and maybe Steve knew about it - how else could he have called that? He has said btc will be worth less than $100 on Fri, no flash crash but will hold that for a couple months. If that happens it could be the worst or best thing that could happen for us - another chance to get back in cheap before btc comes back stronger than ever, or it could mean the end. If it is the end, will another coin like Litecoin or Dogecoin take over as top dog? I think the odds the whole crypto scene dies with btc are very close to zero.

[traderCJ]

My concern is that perhaps the Bitcoin protocol itself hasn't been compromised (or perhaps it has), but rather that the exchanges book-keeping systems and the way they relate to the blockchain have. It now seems clear that MtGox have been robbed of Bitcoins and don't have the blockchain coins that their book-keeping system says that they do, and now perhaps the other USD exchanges also don't. Perhaps the big dump that affected BTC-E and Bitfinex, wasn't actually somebody mindlessly destroying their real wealth, but an act of hacker vandalism performed using exchange Bitcoin credits, which ended up triggering a whole pile of limit orders and margin calls. Perhaps this act was done as a test, or even as a warning shot intended to make Bitcoin whales nervous and more likely to behave in the manner that the attackers wish when they unleash the main event?

I've been wondering about this myself - perhaps those coins were siphoned off of Gox over the past few months/years, then sold in two stages.  First stage, build up $10 million USD or so by gradually selling a portion of the stolen coins across the exchanges.  Second stage, dump the rest with the hopes of driving us into a deeper bear market.  Use $10 million to buy back into the market during the funk.  If that was the case, well, then .. epic fail.

Sitting on a bid wall at this point is foolish, in my opinion.  There is too much activity happening behind the scenes right now to be confident in $X price.  Just think about the power these exchanges wield simply through the information at their disposal.  When we're over here guessing at what happened here and there, they know precisely who did what.  They know the players.  They know the news.  They see the withdrawals and deposits.  We're on the outside guessing.  Ah, the life of speculators.  Little more than gamblers, we are.

[MatTheCat]

I think that's the best explanation I've read for what occurred Monday Matt, and maybe Steve knew about it - how else could he have called that? He has said btc will be worth less than $100 on Fri, no flash crash but will hold that for a couple months. If that happens it could be the worst or best thing that could happen for us - another chance to get back in cheap before btc comes back stronger than ever, or it could mean the end. If it is the end, will another coin like Litecoin or Dogecoin take over as top dog? I think the odds the whole crypto scene dies with btc are absolutely zero.

Agreed.

I am going to go out on a limb and state that crypto-currency is the future of money. But it isn't going to be a Wild West anarchistic crypto-currency that is going to become the global digital standard. Whichever crypto ends up stepping up and taking 1st prize (it may even be Bitcoin yet), will be largely owned and controlled by the existing financial establishment. Even if that coin is called RonPaulMaxKeiserLibertyForAll&FuckTheBankersCoin, the coin that is allowed or facilitated to succeed, will be controlled by The Man. The Man is too powerful, has too much technological prowess, has too much wealth, and too much political control to be so easily subverted by a bunch of computer geek punks sitting in their attics hoarding, pumping, and then dumping Alt-coins.

In Bitcoinsteve's thread, a poster pointed out that he was The World's Enemy on godlikeproduction forums. I followed the link to where he started a similar thread warning of Big take-downs to come. This thread has since been deleted but I did come across this link to a 1996 paper on the creation of electronic crypto-cash:

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

Apparently (I have no idea of how 'genuine' it is), the paper was published with kind permission of the NSA, who were apparently conducting research on the creation of a digital crypto-currency long before most people had even heard of the internet. Think about it. Who has the wealth, the technological expertise, the pooled resources, the knowledge of future technological developments, and the motivation to be at the very front of the race; an intelligence agency of the greatest military and economic power the world has ever seen, or some Japanese anarchist computer nerd and his merry online internet mates?

It also strikes me as curious that the two countries who have basically said "no" to Bitcoin, are the two countries who just so happen to be the only two competitors standing in the way of the US and complete global hegemony. Perhaps their intelligence agencies see Bitcoin as a tool by which their sovereign economies could be undermined?

[traderCJ]

I am going to go out on a limb and state that crypto-currency is the future of money. But it isn't going to be a Wild West anarchistic crypto-currency that is going to become the global digital standard. Whichever crypto ends up stepping up and taking 1st prize (it may even be Bitcoin yet), will be largely owned and controlled by the existing financial establishment. Even if that coin is called RonPaulMaxKeiserLibertyForAll&FuckTheBankersCoin, the coin that is allowed or facilitated to succeed, will be controlled by The Man. The Man is too powerful, has too much technological prowess, has too much wealth, and too much political control to be so easily subverted by a bunch of computer geek punks sitting in their attics hoarding, pumping, and then dumping Alt-coins.

In Bitcoinsteve's thread, a poster pointed out that he was The World's Enemy on godlikeproduction forums. I followed the link to where he started a similar thread warning of Big take-downs to come. This thread has since been deleted but I did come across this link to a 1996 paper on the creation of electronic crypto-cash:

The takedowns would be laughably straightforward.  How much of a stretch do you think it would be for Slovenian, Russian and Japanese authorities to bring the hammer down on these cowboys?  Trumped up charges leveled at all the large exchanges.  Exchanges halt trading pending the outcome of investigations.  Price crashes.  US merchants accepting bitcoin harassed by IRS and the DoJ.  Some company allied with world governments announces a new digital money.  Perhaps a few credit card companies, banks, etc jump on board.  Centralized.  No anonymity.  Easy to use.  Chargebacks supported.  Easily seized by authorities.  Can be "printed" at will.  State approved.  A no-brainer, in my book.  Ma and Pa will take the path of least resistance.

[seleme]

I wish I have 100 BTC for all Bitcoin ends  

[seleme]

I would suspect that this massive Bid Wall registering on Bitstamp, is actually due to the massive Liar Walls on Bitfinex. In fact, I am sure that this is the case.

Bitstamp is not showing orders from Bitfinex, you can just do market trades at Stamp from Bitfinex.

[Lauda]

You can send me all the (soon to be) worthless Bitcoins, address is below.

[FierceRadish]

others such as bitcoinsteve showed us this week

Whether his call was luck, insider knowledge, or an unholy pact with a crypto Witch Doctor, it's worth noting that if you PM Bitcoinsteve right now, he will ask for 1BTC to "get to the top". The more bitcoins you send, the "farther down the rabbit hole" you will go.

It's also worth noting that as of a month or so ago, Bitcoinsteve had 1BTC.

The man behind the curtain? Or a chancer who took a punt, as dozens of others have done, and is now trying to scam others reap the rewards?

Time will tell. And in the current market, I wouldn't necessarily bet against BTC going much lower.

But I'd prefer to listen to Matt, who at least backs up his calls with details, analysis and admirable energy.

[stompix]

I wish I have 100 BTC for all Bitcoin ends  

Seeing how many times bitcoin has already died and the revived I'm stating to think Satoshi is Duncan Macleod

[EatonABooger]

I wish I have 100 BTC for all Bitcoin ends  

Seeing how many times bitcoin has already died and the revived I'm stating to think Satoshi is Duncan Macleod

Of the "Clan Macleod" 

Priceless !!!!   LOL  big time.  Brings back memories...

[MatTheCat]

I would suspect that this massive Bid Wall registering on Bitstamp, is actually due to the massive Liar Walls on Bitfinex. In fact, I am sure that this is the case.

Bitstamp is not showing orders from Bitfinex, you can just do market trades at Stamp from Bitfinex.

Perhaps I am wrong but I was told otherwise from Bitfinex admin after I complained about not being able to route my Stop Losses through Bitstamp anymore. Although I have to tolerate my orders landing on bitfinex's bullshit liar order book, apparently a lot of the Bitfinex trade still is going through Bitstamp for the purposes of increased depth. This was meant to make me happy....I think. (I emptied my account of funds immediately).

but I don't trust the walls on Bitstamp either. If that mountain of Bids really was desperate buyers super keen to get Bitcoin then the buying pressure would have chased the price up by now. Buy-Walls are not to be trusted, especially not when they become in an extreme state like they are now. I remember watching the 'market maker' hack on BTC China a couple of weeks back. It was interesting to watch how Bot A would inflate and deflate the walls in order to trick Bot B into losing money.

[igorr]

all mining company has left of the game, and bitcoin is lost investors, its game over