Bitcoin ATMs and fake money problem?

[hilariousandco]

I'm not an expert in atm machines , but i think it's just a piece of software that runs when you inset a bill that checks it against some patterns.
So it would be fairly easy to get a recognition software that detect fakes , just like banks have , for every bill out there , and install it with a few clicks.

I doubt that this is not the standard procedure , otherwise I'm pretty sure we would have already seen reports of people inserting some home printed money in those machines.

Ok, then why in most banks there are still a human cashiers that personally check some of the bills and it's not all automated?
Based on what experience or facts you think is easy to make a software that recognizes fake money?

The cashiers do other jobs too. Most banks in the UK tell you to use the automated machines if you're paying in money / cheques because it saves time. My mate even had a note swallowed because it was fake, so they obviously work.

And there wasn't any alarm? No closed doors and police units storming the bank?

He was shot before he could get to the door. Jokes, it just told him on the screen that a counterfeit had been detected and gave him a receipt detailing that it had been kept and what to do to retrieve or contest it.

[RodeoX]

If they are following KYC regulations then they should know who passed the bad bill. Don't the B-ATMs use hand-print readers or something?

[Sheldor333]

Well one way would be detector pens that can be swiped across notes to tell if they are fake. They turn the swiped area of the note a certain color on genuine notes and another color on counterfeit ones. That is install them and make them only accept notes of the right color.

Here is something in news: http://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/businessbankinginsurance/atms-that-can-detect--fake-notes-are-now-here/article1-1040650.aspx

[Armis]

I was thinking, if someone runs a bitcoin ATM and it's not Robocoin  (Which is the only one that does user verification) don't they risk of becoming the perfect place for people to launder counterfeited money?
I suppose the note taking mechanism can't recognize them. Especially since most seem to be programmable to work with any currency...

So how do we solve that?
Camera at the spot won't really stop the determined ones.

Is it possible to 'launder counterfeit money'?

Sure if you can find a way to swap it for legit money without them noticing.

somehow I think they have a different term for that, all I could think of is "passing" counterfeit money, but I'm pretty sure the word 'laundering' is for a wholly different context.

IMO, laundering is the act of taking real money that is gotten though illegal means and incorporating it into legal enterprise thereby 'cleaning the dirty money'.

I don't think you can launder counterfeit money because no matter what you do with the money it will still be counterfeit.

[CryptoPanda]

I was thinking, if someone runs a bitcoin ATM and it's not Robocoin  (Which is the only one that does user verification) don't they risk of becoming the perfect place for people to launder counterfeited money?
I suppose the note taking mechanism can't recognize them. Especially since most seem to be programmable to work with any currency...

So how do we solve that?
Camera at the spot won't really stop the determined ones.

Is it possible to 'launder counterfeit money'?

Sure if you can find a way to swap it for legit money without them noticing.

somehow I think they have a different term for that, all I could think of is "passing" counterfeit money, but I'm pretty sure the word 'laundering' is for a wholly different context.

IMO, laundering is the act of taking real money that is gotten though illegal means and incorporating it into legal enterprise thereby 'cleaning the dirty money'.

I don't think you can launder counterfeit money because no matter what you do with the money it will still be counterfeit.

Makes sense and point taken

[bitkanu]

I was thinking, if someone runs a bitcoin ATM and it's not Robocoin  (Which is the only one that does user verification) don't they risk of becoming the perfect place for people to launder counterfeited money?
I suppose the note taking mechanism can't recognize them. Especially since most seem to be programmable to work with any currency...

So how do we solve that?
Camera at the spot won't really stop the determined ones.

Is it possible to 'launder counterfeit money'?

Sure if you can find a way to swap it for legit money without them noticing.

somehow I think they have a different term for that, all I could think of is "passing" counterfeit money, but I'm pretty sure the word 'laundering' is for a wholly different context.

IMO, laundering is the act of taking real money that is gotten though illegal means and incorporating it into legal enterprise thereby 'cleaning the dirty money'.

I don't think you can launder counterfeit money because no matter what you do with the money it will still be counterfeit.

Makes sense and point taken

  i also can't understand

[Armis]

Well one way would be detector pens that can be swiped across notes to tell if they are fake. They turn the swiped area of the note a certain color on genuine notes and another color on counterfeit ones. That is install them and make them only accept notes of the right color.

Here is something in news: http://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/businessbankinginsurance/atms-that-can-detect--fake-notes-are-now-here/article1-1040650.aspx

If ATM took that technology alone, people who bleach 1 USD notes to reprint with 100 USD image would milk that ATM dry, all of the notes would pass the detector pen test because all of the PAPER is real, but the image wasn't.

[CryptoPanda]

Well one way would be detector pens that can be swiped across notes to tell if they are fake. They turn the swiped area of the note a certain color on genuine notes and another color on counterfeit ones. That is install them and make them only accept notes of the right color.

Here is something in news: http://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/businessbankinginsurance/atms-that-can-detect--fake-notes-are-now-here/article1-1040650.aspx

If ATM took that technology alone, people who bleach 1 USD notes to reprint with 100 USD image would milk that ATM dry, all of the notes would pass the detector pen test because all of the PAPER is real, but the image wasn't.

yep, and the article kinda makes it sound like this was implemented just recently, 2013

[hilariousandco]

I was thinking, if someone runs a bitcoin ATM and it's not Robocoin  (Which is the only one that does user verification) don't they risk of becoming the perfect place for people to launder counterfeited money?
I suppose the note taking mechanism can't recognize them. Especially since most seem to be programmable to work with any currency...

So how do we solve that?
Camera at the spot won't really stop the determined ones.

Is it possible to 'launder counterfeit money'?

Sure if you can find a way to swap it for legit money without them noticing.

somehow I think they have a different term for that, all I could think of is "passing" counterfeit money, but I'm pretty sure the word 'laundering' is for a wholly different context.

IMO, laundering is the act of taking real money that is gotten though illegal means and incorporating it into legal enterprise thereby 'cleaning the dirty money'.

I don't think you can launder counterfeit money because no matter what you do with the money it will still be counterfeit.

You launder/exchange it for real money.

[adub]

OP,
This is how counterfeit detection works in the Lamassu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNaAc3okRk&feature=youtu.be&t=36s

[StevenS]

Because when one of the largest banks in my country declared it has to go through some changes ,(and fire some peoples)  in a matter of days all the banks got some new machines where you could insert cash and make a deposit to any of your bank accounts or pay bills , even exchange currecy, not having to talk to the cashier anymore.

ING for example , never really had ,since they first come with their first bank here,  cashiers , they only had atms for depositing and withdrawing money.

I'm pretty sure that when these ATMs take the cash, they stack it in the order in which it was received, and there is a log kept of to which account was used for which bill. Then, I'm assuming that the human who services the ATM does a spot check on the stack and will start an investigation if counterfeit bills are found.

But then, I could be completely wrong if the counterfeit detection has advanced to the point that it's as good as a human.

[jongameson]

there is no fake money it's all gay (now for a music video)

sorry there's none.  now you have to look up Roni Size - Brown Paper Bag by yourself.  on YouTube

[lemipawa]

if fake money it must be top news on coindesk

[Soros Shorts]

That's great! Is there more information about it? Can't see a word about it on their page.

Image, magnetic and UV checks.

[Armis]

there is no fake money it's all gay (now for a music video)

sorry there's none.  now you have to look up Roni Size - Brown Paper Bag by yourself.  on YouTube

thanks for that, it was a joy to watch and learn  

from: StevenS on February 12, 2014, 09:45:49 PM

But then, I could be completely wrong if the counterfeit detection has advanced to the point that it's as good as a human.

The counterfeit detection technology is far better than human detection, however do you want to pay for that level of detection.

There are many different detection levels, from the very bottom, "the pen" to the very top 'CAT scan for money' (see vid above).   

[CryptoPanda]

OP,
This is how counterfeit detection works in the Lamassu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNaAc3okRk&feature=youtu.be&t=36s

wow much cool
is that the actual model Lamassu is using?

[stompix]

Because when one of the largest banks in my country declared it has to go through some changes ,(and fire some peoples)  in a matter of days all the banks got some new machines where you could insert cash and make a deposit to any of your bank accounts or pay bills , even exchange currecy, not having to talk to the cashier anymore.

ING for example , never really had ,since they first come with their first bank here,  cashiers , they only had atms for depositing and withdrawing money.

I'm pretty sure that when these ATMs take the cash, they stack it in the order in which it was received, and there is a log kept of to which account was used for which bill. Then, I'm assuming that the human who services the ATM does a spot check on the stack and will start an investigation if counterfeit bills are found.

But then, I could be completely wrong if the counterfeit detection has advanced to the point that it's as good as a human.

Ok , for the sake of it I went in and asked what would happen If I were to unknowingly stick a fake bill.
It seems that every ATM is fit with a detector , and the moment the bill gets detected it it's seized and the personal of the bank is notified.

Now , checking the prices around , it seems that an auto scanner for 16 kind of currencies is priced at around 200 euros and this is the stand alone device, so I guess it's even cheaper for a bank or a company that buys in bulk to add those thingies.

[cbeast]

They've come a long way from the days when an eleven year old could Xerox a single to get change at laundromat and buy a Coca-Cola. Not saying, just saying.

[adub]

OP,
This is how counterfeit detection works in the Lamassu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNaAc3okRk&feature=youtu.be&t=36s

wow much cool
is that the actual model Lamassu is using?

No the one in the video has all the latest features. I know some of the features are not on the model the Lamassu uses but I'm not sure exactly where that line is. More than anything I wanted to show a demo of how the note detection works.

[CryptoPanda]

Because when one of the largest banks in my country declared it has to go through some changes ,(and fire some peoples)  in a matter of days all the banks got some new machines where you could insert cash and make a deposit to any of your bank accounts or pay bills , even exchange currecy, not having to talk to the cashier anymore.

ING for example , never really had ,since they first come with their first bank here,  cashiers , they only had atms for depositing and withdrawing money.

I'm pretty sure that when these ATMs take the cash, they stack it in the order in which it was received, and there is a log kept of to which account was used for which bill. Then, I'm assuming that the human who services the ATM does a spot check on the stack and will start an investigation if counterfeit bills are found.

But then, I could be completely wrong if the counterfeit detection has advanced to the point that it's as good as a human.

Ok , for the sake of it I went in and asked what would happen If I were to unknowingly stick a fake bill.
It seems that every ATM is fit with a detector , and the moment the bill gets detected it it's seized and the personal of the bank is notified.

Now , checking the prices around , it seems that an auto scanner for 16 kind of currencies is priced at around 200 euros and this is the stand alone device, so I guess it's even cheaper for a bank or a company that buys in bulk to add those thingies.

That's very useful info, thanks for getting in and asking!