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Author Topic: SELLERS: Let's Raise Our Prices to $2/BTC!  (Read 5951 times)
LZ
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March 19, 2011, 04:03:47 PM
 #21

I like this idea, it may stop the decline. But we still need to increase the demand. I moved my sell orders to $2.

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March 19, 2011, 04:07:43 PM
 #22

I'll have to agree with the rest in that this was a ridiculous proposition.

[...] We know that Bitcoin will be very successful and that its inherent value is much higher than today's prices of $0.8/BTC. [...]

There's no such thing as "inherent value" in anything. Bitcoins or paper currency. Value exists only when you trade something for something else. Our trading means that we both believe my thing is worth as much as your thing. So we trade, because I want some of your thing and you want some of my thing. This is elementary.

If everybody starts insisting like that, the volume of trades will drop; perhaps to zero.

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March 19, 2011, 04:20:04 PM
 #23

More relating to Bitcoin not being a fiat currency...

Fiat money is money that has value only because of government regulation or law. The term derives from the Latin fiat, meaning "let it be done", as such money is established by government decree. Where fiat money is used as currency, the term fiat currency is used.

Definition of FIAT
1: a command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort
2: an authoritative determination : dictate <a fiat of conscience>
3: an authoritative or arbitrary order : decree <government by fiat>
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March 19, 2011, 04:30:32 PM
 #24

Currency (whether or not you use the word "fiat" to describe it) works because people accept it. People accept the paper currencies of today for the simple reasons that (a) they are used to accepting them and (b) everybody else accepts them as well. If people aren't convinced that BTC is a real currency and it can be used to buy real things or at least can be traded (both ways!) with currencies that are "real" to them, they won't be interested in getting BTC. Nobody will want to buy BTC using other currencies and the people who will have it won't be able to do much with it except give it away cheap, or trade among themselves.

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March 19, 2011, 05:18:49 PM
 #25

More relating to Bitcoin not being a fiat currency...

There are many definitions of fiat. The very same Wikipedia article has one of the definitions as:
    * money without intrinsic value.

Bitcoin fills into this definition.

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March 19, 2011, 06:13:56 PM
 #26

There's definitely a paucity of bids, at any price, on Mt. Gox right now. 

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March 19, 2011, 06:30:43 PM
 #27

There are many definitions of fiat. The very same Wikipedia article has one of the definitions as:
    * money without intrinsic value.

Bitcoin fills into this definition.

No money has intrinsic value. A gold coin is worth at least the "intrinsic value" of the gold content, but that gold does not have an intrinsic value, it is determined by the market. If all money is fiat, why bother using that term in reference to Bitcoin, as if implying that some other money is not fiat. If some money is fiat, then how do you defend a definition other than "authoritative decree"?
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March 19, 2011, 07:25:53 PM
 #28

One reason for the lack of bids is that buying in through exchangers is difficult, timely, and costly.  I don't think there is any automated exchange service available.  Almost all put the buyer in a "pay and wait" situation - mostly through LR and WU.  I'm experiencing this myself.  Of course, we all know the reasons for this (irreversible transactions attract fraudsters).

Depositing by bank wire or ACH to Mtgox is supposed to be an option, but its an "e-mail for more info" option.  And how many days or weeks until they respond to the email?  I can only imagine how happy the online banking fraudsters would be if this method was available to them (it sure beats recruiting money mules).

If the friction and cost of buying in with cash is reduced, price of bitcoin will go up.

(Is it correct that the Feb. rally was due to a run on LR?)

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March 19, 2011, 07:33:18 PM
 #29

I take it as good sign that this post seems to be totally ineffectual at moving the market.  Bitcoin took on normal speculative market behavior around december last year, another great sign that bitcoin is legit.  When I say "normal" behavior, I am talking about punctuated growth, ups and downs, impulsive and corrective moves.  Don't get seduced into the trap of trying to explain the moves in the BTC exchange rates with "outside forces" like the Japan disaster or investor psychology like "people are afraid of Bitcoin."  The correction we are in is natural and good for a speculative market.  It weeds out the over optimistic.  My bet is on long-term appreciation of Bitcoins, but don't expect the path to be a straight line...
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March 19, 2011, 11:53:53 PM
 #30

I take it as good sign that this post seems to be totally ineffectual at moving the market.

I moved my sells order to $2/BTC on MtGox hours ago, and neither the depth of market chart, nor the trade data show my order... There could be a MtGox bug where it is not displaying asks >= $2/BTC.
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March 20, 2011, 12:45:54 AM
 #31

Even my jedi level mind game didn't work at all (saying I moved sell orders to $2 and actually moving them only slightly above 24hr high). It didn't move an inch!

So either this channel of communication is very ineffective, though I'm pretty sure it is, or there is a real market force driving bitcoin exchange rates... we're getting more and more mature, quite a satisfying realization I say!
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March 20, 2011, 03:21:09 AM
 #32

Once people do this, I will sell at 1.99.

This is exactly why this wouldn't work competition drives down prices.

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March 20, 2011, 09:55:45 AM
 #33

Once people do this, I will sell at 1.99.

Exactly.


It makes me really happy that people on this forum understand basic economics.  So many people don't. 
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March 20, 2011, 10:10:02 AM
 #34

So either this channel of communication is very ineffective, though I'm pretty sure it is, or there is a real market force driving bitcoin exchange rates... we're getting more and more mature, quite a satisfying realization I say!

These graphs should give you an idea of what has been happening to the Bitcoin network lately. Let's hope that drop doesn't continue either.

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March 20, 2011, 09:01:17 PM
 #35

There's no such thing as "inherent value" in anything.

Finally!! Someone else understands it!

 Grin

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barbarousrelic
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March 20, 2011, 09:37:17 PM
 #36

I don't like this idea but this is very easy.

Just make a cartel with 100 members each one holding at least 10k coins.

Almost everything is easy if you've got a ton of money to blow on it.  Tongue

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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March 21, 2011, 02:08:29 AM
 #37

I do much more simpler and serious offer. I accept bitcoins in my online store at the rate of $2.00 = 1BTC. Bitcoins do not worth anything without products and services behind them.

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March 21, 2011, 03:24:51 AM
 #38

I don't like this idea but this is very easy.

Just make a cartel with 100 members each one holding at least 10k coins.

Almost everything is easy if you've got a ton of money to blow on it.  Tongue

Not too much money. We are talking about a money oriented community.

I believe 10 or 20 wealth forummers can skyrocket the prices (Like a bitcoin OPEC...)

I think you might have it backward. If you want to force the price up, you need a huge amount of $, not BTC. Getting a bunch of people to sell at no less than $2/BTC is useless if there's even just one guy with 10k BTC offering to sell at $1. There's simply not enough impatient demand for BTC yet. I think there is patient demand, and they know they can bid low and eventually get what they want. And there's enough impatient supply to do that for them, since many miners are concerned about recouping hardware investments. Even if you could round up 100 big sellers and band together at $2/pc, there will still be plenty of supply that won't join you.

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March 21, 2011, 03:29:04 AM
 #39

I do much more simpler and serious offer. I accept bitcoins in my online store at the rate of $2.00 = 1BTC. Bitcoins do not worth anything without products and services behind them.

That's a good idea. I just might do something similar someday, since the stuff I sell has high profit margins. I can handle a 50% loss vs my usual sales, if it brings in new customers.

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March 21, 2011, 03:55:27 AM
 #40

Now I think that we have to move our sell orders to the right edge of the Depth of Market.
Or most traders will not know about our orders and about our idea to continue the RALLY.

"Never invest unless you can afford to lose your entire investment." © S3052
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