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Author Topic: OccupyLA on 10/1 !! We will be there in Bitcoin Attire! Financial Revolution!  (Read 7315 times)
WiseOldOwl
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October 04, 2011, 05:42:47 PM
 #101


Look at all the other countries that have successfully implemented and continue to run well respected national health services you boob.

Please don't include Canada on that list.

Universal healthcare may have been successfully implemented, but its a mess currently.

Six month waiting lists for some non-surgical examination procedures. Actual surgery can easily require a 1-year wait unless your condition is critical.

Emergency room wait times are ridiculous, I have had to wait 4 hours on more than one occasion. In one case a person literally died after waiting for 34 hours in emergency. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2008/11/19/hospital-emergency.html

+1

This is widely known, and you shouldnt have to explain it to these people.

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WiseOldOwl
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October 04, 2011, 05:49:24 PM
 #102

So do we have a donation address for OccupyLA yet?

They dont, they arent the brightest. I am over it. Its sad to see so many dumb people that are willing to do something about their beliefs.

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October 04, 2011, 06:25:09 PM
 #103

So do we have a donation address for OccupyLA yet?

They dont, they arent the brightest. I am over it. Its sad to see so many dumb people that are willing to do something about their beliefs.

If you are so out of place at the demonstrations I would suspect that it probably shows.  In that case, it may be somewhat better to _not_ make a big deal about Bitcoin.  If people sense that you are considering them universally stupid and backward, they very well could have some non-positive perceptions of you as well and may not be as receptive to considering and exploring Bitcoin as they could be.

It is, of course, a free country (for now) and you can do as you like.  I'm just saying as a practical matter it might be a better strategy to pay some attention to selecting the messenger as well as the message for a target audience in promoting Bitcoin.  I do hope that you balance your desire have Bitcoin promoted successfully with your other priorities.

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October 04, 2011, 07:26:41 PM
 #104


Look at all the other countries that have successfully implemented and continue to run well respected national health services you boob.

Please don't include Canada on that list.

Universal healthcare may have been successfully implemented, but its a mess currently.

Six month waiting lists for some non-surgical examination procedures. Actual surgery can easily require a 1-year wait unless your condition is critical.

Emergency room wait times are ridiculous, I have had to wait 4 hours on more than one occasion. In one case a person literally died after waiting for 34 hours in emergency. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2008/11/19/hospital-emergency.html

Yeah, Canada doesn't have a single national healthcare plan.  They have 13 different systems based on broad national requirements administered by each individual territory/province.  Their system isn't perfect, but I would say it works somewhat better than the current US system, at least in the area of controlling the kind of out-of-control price inflation we're seeing in the US.

Also, emergency room wait times suck in America as well, and people dying during the wait isn't completely unheard of.

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October 04, 2011, 08:08:55 PM
 #105

Yeah, Canada doesn't have a single national healthcare plan.  They have 13 different systems based on broad national requirements administered by each individual territory/province.  Their system isn't perfect, but I would say it works somewhat better than the current US system, at least in the area of controlling the kind of out-of-control price inflation we're seeing in the US.

Also, emergency room wait times suck in America as well, and people dying during the wait isn't completely unheard of.

The rapid price increases in America are very easy to explain, and in fact this was made clear to me on a recent doctor visit.

The problem is that the patient (customer) is not the one who pays for the service. There is a disconnect between customer and merchant. This disconnect enables the incentive of a company (hospital/doctor) to raise its prices to go unchecked. The doctor can prescribe anything, run any tests, and generally "over-service" the patient, because the patient wants "all the health he can get" and isn't paying the cost directly. For the most part, it's paid by the insurance provider or an employer via the insurance provider.

This singular dynamic is the primary reason healthcare costs in America seem "unrestrained." The incentive to reduce costs is gone, or almost gone.

I had understood this conceptually for a while, but on a recent doctor visit it was made terribly clear. I went to get a prescription. Before the doctor would prescribe the drug, he said I needed to take some blood tests and other types of analysis. It sounded a bit excessive, so I asked him, "How much will all that cost?"  You see, I cared about the cost, because I don't have insurance. I have to pay for the services I receive. The doctor said the tests would cost roughly $900-$1,200. I gasped! He looked surprised at my question, and asked, "don't you have insurance?" I said no. He looked more surprised, paused, and then said, well, I guess we don't need to run all these tests. He crossed some things out on the clipboard, and said, "okay, just these three tests are required. The cost will be about $350.

So I paid for those tests, and got the prescription.  If I had been a "normal client" with insurance to cover every expense, the cost of acquiring the services would be over a grand. But when the discipline of a price-conscious customer is added to the equation, the cost dropped to $350. Remember that when insurance companies pay your bills, their costs are distributed amongst all their policy holders. That is why insurance premiums keep rising - because doctors and hospitals have no incentive to control what they provide for a given demand.

This isn't the full story of why prices are rising, but it is a large portion of it. Insurance should not be paying for normal medical expenses. It should cover only catastrophic events, and people should get used to paying for the services and goods they demand. The overall price of health in the country would fall, or at least stabilize.

It is not a coincidence that those industries with the most government distortion are the industries in which prices are out of control (college, healthcare, war, etc.)

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October 04, 2011, 08:49:16 PM
 #106

Which tent are you guys? I took a stroll over (I live nearby) but didn't see any Bitcoin logos.
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October 04, 2011, 09:03:12 PM
 #107


Yeah, Canada doesn't have a single national healthcare plan.  They have 13 different systems based on broad national requirements administered by each individual territory/province.  Their system isn't perfect, but I would say it works somewhat better than the current US system, at least in the area of controlling the kind of out-of-control price inflation we're seeing in the US.

Also, emergency room wait times suck in America as well, and people dying during the wait isn't completely unheard of.

+1  

And in Canada one generally doesn't have to fear losing their entire life savings when they get sick.
( edit/ also think of car insurance. Everyone complains about having to pay it, but how many would wish they didn't have it when they get into an accident they are responsible for?  ) 

And also just because something is not managed properly is not prove against the concept.

And I would dare suggest that most people in this Country approve of a system of socialized ( for lack of a better term ) healthcare and tend to vote 'provincially' for leaders that say they will protect it...  it is not something forced on us...  it's called democracy.    Wink


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October 04, 2011, 09:38:15 PM
 #108

The problem is that the patient (customer) is not the one who pays for the service. There is a disconnect between customer and merchant. This disconnect enables the incentive of a company (hospital/doctor) to raise its prices to go unchecked. The doctor can prescribe anything, run any tests, and generally "over-service" the patient, because the patient wants "all the health he can get" and isn't paying the cost directly. For the most part, it's paid by the insurance provider or an employer via the insurance provider.

Right, any healthcare system based on third-party payment, whether the third party is an insurance company, your (self-insured) employer or the government, will have difficulty controlling costs.  Even if you believe that their should be a social safety net to help poor people access medical care (I do), it would be far better to give the money directly to the patient.  This also preserves the sanctity of the patient-doctor relationship.  The healthcare debate should be about eliminating third parties, not which third party should be responsible.

"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi
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October 04, 2011, 10:50:07 PM
 #109

I'm gonna go protest the color Purple instead. I wish to have it removed from the spectrum.

The sad thing is, my lone protest against the color Purple probably has a better shot at getting something accomplished than these OccpyMyStreet guys have.

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October 05, 2011, 12:54:18 PM
 #110

So do we have a donation address for OccupyLA yet?

They dont, they arent the brightest. I am over it. Its sad to see so many dumb people that are willing to do something about their beliefs.

I believe that we have to first come to an understanding that many people who lack education and intelligence are also the product of this current failing system. This understanding is the foundation where people can build a new system on. Without this, we are no better than the Wall St thugs that justifies their actions because they think the rest of the world deserves exactly what they are getting. First knowing the current system has failed, which is happening now, then helping each other understand the real problem out of love that comes from that common understanding is how we will change this world.
WiseOldOwl
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October 05, 2011, 02:36:56 PM
 #111

I went back home, sorry.
They were lagging so hard on bitcoin donations.
Just to make it clear, I wasn't discussing politics, but rather only discussing Bitcoin and how it works.
That's why when I finally got home I had to vent here Smiley

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October 05, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
 #112

I went back home, sorry.
They were lagging so hard on bitcoin donations.
Just to make it clear, I wasn't discussing politics, but rather only discussing Bitcoin and how it works.
That's why when I finally got home I had to vent here Smiley

Thanks for your efforts.

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