JayJuanGee
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Activity: 3710
Merit: 10209
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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September 05, 2018, 12:03:54 AM |
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It would be pretty darn nice to have a hardware lightning channel that could be bought, plugged in, connected, and loaded with 1/10 BTC.
there is one now, its called casa node https://keys.casa/lightning-bitcoin-node/Where would be the place to look at relatively objective reviews about such a device? Of course, the company itself is going to say nice things, but how can we be assured that we are NOT screwed over in the future after we have set up the device and then later realize that our BTC ended up getting stolen?
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Flatulenters
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Merit: 16
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September 05, 2018, 12:14:46 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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It would be pretty darn nice to have a hardware lightning channel that could be bought, plugged in, connected, and loaded with 1/10 BTC.
there is one now, its called casa node https://keys.casa/lightning-bitcoin-node/Where would be the place to look at relatively objective reviews about such a device? Of course, the company itself is going to say nice things, but how can we be assured that we are NOT screwed over in the future after we have set up the device and then later realize that our BTC ended up getting stolen? No reviews yet as they just starting to accept pre orders. first shipments will be in ocktober. Yeah, there will always be a risk using any hardware/software built by a 3d party.
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Rath_
aka BitCryptex
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Activity: 1876
Merit: 3131
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September 05, 2018, 05:13:21 AM Last edit: September 05, 2018, 06:20:20 AM by BitCryptex Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Anon136 (1) |
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Of course, the company itself is going to say nice things, but how can we be assured that we are NOT screwed over in the future after we have set up the device and then later realize that our BTC ended up getting stolen?
If you are really concerned about this (and you should be) then consider buying Raspberry Pi with an external harddrive. You can use RaspiBlitz. It's quite easy to install. Here you can view the installation instructions and there is even a list of hardware which you will need. The cost is 120 euro (including a touchscreen!) which is about 150 dollars. Half the cost for a self-made and open source device. The only flaw is that you might not like using the command line all the time.
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3710
Merit: 10209
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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September 05, 2018, 06:29:06 AM |
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Of course, the company itself is going to say nice things, but how can we be assured that we are NOT screwed over in the future after we have set up the device and then later realize that our BTC ended up getting stolen?
If you are really concerned about this (and you should be) then consider buying Raspberry Pi with an external harddrive. You can use RaspiBlitz. It's quite easy to install. Here you can view the installation instructions and there is even a list of hardware which you will need. The cost is 120 euro (including a touchscreen!) which is about 150 dollars. Half the cost for a self-made and open source device. The only flaw is that you might not like using the command line all the time. Hey BitCryptex... thanks for the description of another option. A reason that I responded to Flatulenters's earlier post with my question was because I am enthralled by the idea of a kind of plug and play user experience - even though I understand that command line might give a bit more control. Perhaps I am waiting for a set up that is nearly as easy as setting up a Trezor...? hahahaha... Wishful thinking, perhaps?
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Rath_
aka BitCryptex
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Activity: 1876
Merit: 3131
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September 07, 2018, 07:05:19 PM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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A reason that I responded to Flatulenters's earlier post with my question was because I am enthralled by the idea of a kind of plug and play user experience - even though I understand that command line might give a bit more control.
Perhaps I am waiting for a set up that is nearly as easy as setting up a Trezor...? hahahaha... Wishful thinking, perhaps?
Actually, we are not that far from that! There are still a few problems to solve (e.g. receiving money if one's node is offline) but it is a matter of time before someone releases a small device similar to TREZOR capable of running a Lightning Network node. I have found an interesting tutorial on making your own portable Lightning Network node. It still requires some technical knowledge but as you can see we are getting closer to the thing described by you. By the way, TREZOR T has got a micro-SD slot so it might have some LN related features in the future.
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OddEvenBets.com
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September 10, 2018, 10:03:56 AM |
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Can I install LN node and daemon on Ubuntu 14.04? I try but cannot compile.. The 1990s are calling: use ./configure! The 1990s are calling: use ./configure! make: *** [ccan/config.h] Error 1
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███████████████████████████████████████ OddEvenBets - it's not my domain now! I lost it. ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
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Carlton Banks
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Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
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September 10, 2018, 11:03:46 AM |
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Can I install LN node and daemon on Ubuntu 14.04? I try but cannot compile.. The 1990s are calling: use ./configure! The 1990s are calling: use ./configure! make: *** [ccan/config.h] Error 1 install automake, then do ./configure && make
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Vires in numeris
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Wind_FURY
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Activity: 2912
Merit: 1825
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September 11, 2018, 07:38:58 AM |
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This post was made by franky1 from another topic. I am bringing this in here to discuss and debate. I will ask him to come here if he wants to discuss. remember the gold era. people stopped swapping gold and locked it into vaults/banks/fortknox(LN factories) and traded unconfirmed receipts of proof with each other until one side no longer had value. then the winner... became those that were the vaults Before we continue, can you explain "why" the vaults became the winner, and how that relates to the Lightning Network? if you read LN's 2018 concept you will see,, LN factories/watchtowers = third party= banks But are Lightning nodes = banks? Do the users surrender all control of their Bitcoins to open a channel? Is there a fractional reserve?
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| .SHUFFLE.COM.. | ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ | ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ | . ...Next Generation Crypto Casino... |
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Rath_
aka BitCryptex
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September 11, 2018, 04:32:01 PM |
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But are Lightning nodes = banks? Do the users surrender all control of their Bitcoins to open a channel? Is there a fractional reserve?
There is no fractional reserve on the Lightning Network. Opening a channel means locking up bitcoins in a multi-signature address. Both parties have the same level of control as long as they are online - you can get your coins back any time you want except when the other party is offline. Anyone can set up a Lightning Network node so even if banks attempted to hijack the network, it would be possible to exclude their nodes from routing your payment.
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Wind_FURY
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September 12, 2018, 05:58:36 AM |
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I know, those questions were asked rhetorically. Because there are some people in this forum that I cannot understand why they would resort to twisting the facts to make a criticism. Is it pride? Perhaps tribalism?
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| .SHUFFLE.COM.. | ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ | ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ ███████████████████████ | . ...Next Generation Crypto Casino... |
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DooMAD
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Leave no FUD unchallenged
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September 12, 2018, 07:18:07 AM Last edit: September 12, 2018, 06:13:37 PM by DooMAD |
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I know, those questions were asked rhetorically. Because there are some people in this forum that I cannot understand why they would resort to twisting the facts to make a criticism. Is it pride? Perhaps tribalism?
Some people just go full on tin-foil-hat sometimes. They see people moving forward together and assume it has to be a conspiracy, rather than simply taking a course of action which is beneficial for the group as a whole. Or, if they aren't deluded, they're just malicious. One or the other. The good news is that it won't slow our progress and few people are buying into the FUD. Just ignore them.
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. .HUGE. | | | | | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . CASINO & SPORTSBOOK ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | |
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Samarkand
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September 12, 2018, 05:52:23 PM |
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... Both parties have the same level of control as long as they are online - you can get your coins back any time you want except when the other party is offline. ...
Is there a comprehensive list of solutions that mitigate this "you always have to be online" problem if you want full control of your funds in open payment channels? This just seems like a huge barrier to entry for newcomers, because many average persons are neither willing nor able to run LN-related software 24/7. If the solution is a centralized service that watches your open LN channels, there are obviously several disadvantages inherent to a centralized solution.
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Rath_
aka BitCryptex
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Activity: 1876
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September 12, 2018, 07:55:54 PM |
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Eclair wallet for Android now supports channel backup! Channel data is encrypted and optionally uploaded to Google Drive which makes it easy for an average user to recover it when needed. Is there a comprehensive list of solutions that mitigate this "you always have to be online" problem if you want full control of your funds in open payment channels?
The only thing I can think of right now are watchtowers which some people consider as a security threat. Keep in mind that if the other party attempts to close the channel forcefully when you are offline, it won't happen immediately. The locktime is negotiated always when the channel is founded. Usually, it is about 144 blocks (1 day). Running a Lightning Network node isn't as demanding as Bitcoin Core instance. Thanks to neutrino you don't have to download much data.
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Carlton Banks
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September 12, 2018, 08:18:51 PM |
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Is there a comprehensive list of solutions that mitigate this "you always have to be online" problem if you want full control of your funds in open payment channels? Run your own lightning node 24/7/365. It's not very demanding, an Arduino or Raspberry Pi could do it (in fact, your internet router could probably do it, which is kinda convenient as being online 24/7/365 is what a router's designed for) This just seems like a huge barrier to entry for newcomers, because many average persons are neither willing nor able to run LN-related software 24/7. If the solution is a centralized service that watches your open LN channels, there are obviously several disadvantages inherent to a centralized solution. Well, watchtowers aren't even an option yet, the code for the protocol doesn't exist AFAIK. As stated elsewhere in the thread, eltoo simplifies the situation, and there's probably more room for improvement too. I personally think that having a small server running out of your house will slowly become a cultural norm, as lightning nodes are certainly not the only reason something like that is useful.
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Vires in numeris
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Wind_FURY
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September 13, 2018, 05:59:21 AM |
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Is there a comprehensive list of solutions that mitigate this "you always have to be online" problem if you want full control of your funds in open payment channels? Run your own lightning node 24/7/365. It's not very demanding, an Arduino or Raspberry Pi could do it (in fact, your internet router could probably do it, which is kinda convenient as being online 24/7/365 is what a router's designed for) For Bitcoin nerds like us, yes we can do it, although I have not found any motivation to set up a node and join the Lightning Network yet. But for an average user of "Bitcoin as a payments tool", it would take more effort, time, and more eading.
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Carlton Banks
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September 13, 2018, 11:02:46 AM |
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for an average user of "Bitcoin as a payments tool", it would take more effort, time, and more eading.
Well, Bitcoin is a cultural change as well as a different type of money. I've learnt things I perhaps otherwise wouldn't so that I can be more effective using Bitcoin, there's no reason not to expect that others will be similarly motivated. Plus, complete lightning nodes are available for sale already
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Vires in numeris
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Samarkand
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September 14, 2018, 08:29:16 AM |
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... For Bitcoin nerds like us, yes we can do it, although I have not found any motivation to set up a node and join the Lightning Network yet. But for an average user of "Bitcoin as a payments tool", it would take more effort, time, and more eading.
This was exactly my concern. Many people won´t bother with using an Arduino and instead will rely on their credit card and let VISA handle the "server stuff" and the "technical details". Of course it would be trivial for more tech-savvy people, but the average citizen probably has to be incentivized to use the LN in another way. ... As stated elsewhere in the thread, eltoo simplifies the situation, and there's probably more room for improvement too. ...
I did some reading regarding eltoo after you pointed out eltoo the last time. However, my impression was that eltoo needs certain additions to the Bitcoin protocol that haven´t been implemented so far. https://www.bitcoinlightning.com/eltoo-protocol/The Eltoo protocol is gaining steam among LN advocates. To institute Eltoo, it will be required to add the SIGHASH flag and SIGHASH_NOINPUT to the Bitcoin protocol.
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DooMAD
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Leave no FUD unchallenged
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September 14, 2018, 09:46:49 AM |
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... As stated elsewhere in the thread, eltoo simplifies the situation, and there's probably more room for improvement too. ...
I did some reading regarding eltoo after you pointed out eltoo the last time. However, my impression was that eltoo needs certain additions to the Bitcoin protocol that haven´t been implemented so far. https://www.bitcoinlightning.com/eltoo-protocol/The Eltoo protocol is gaining steam among LN advocates. To institute Eltoo, it will be required to add the SIGHASH flag and SIGHASH_NOINPUT to the Bitcoin protocol. Yes, that requires a softfork. But then so does Schnorr Sigs, so there will probably end up being a few new features bundled together in the next softfork, just to save having more than one. The assumption is that this will be far less controversial than the previous softfork, as most of the would-be-opponents have forked away and care more about their other chains now.
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. .HUGE. | | | | | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . CASINO & SPORTSBOOK ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | |
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Rath_
aka BitCryptex
Legendary
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September 15, 2018, 01:00:09 PM |
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LND v0.5 beta has just been announced. This version mostly consists of many small improvements. However, there are a few things worth taking look at. Autopilot can now create unadvertised channels which do not take part in payment routing. Another great thing is that channels which are being closed are excluded from routing payments. The same applies if one of the node's peers is offline.
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suzanne5223
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September 15, 2018, 09:42:41 PM |
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for an average user of "Bitcoin as a payments tool", it would take more effort, time, and more eading.
Well, Bitcoin is a cultural change as well as a different type of money. I've learnt things I perhaps otherwise wouldn't so that I can be more effective using Bitcoin, there's no reason not to expect that others will be similarly motivated. Plus, complete lightning nodes are available for sale already You're right but there's is something I don't understand concern what you said about the complete lightning nodes to be available for sale and the Casa nodes which was meant for showcasing the Lightning network to big exchanges. Does all this mean that the lightning network is no longer beta testing?
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