Lightning Network Discussion Thread

[Anon136]

I really what to ask this question please..
Is the lightening network known as segwit?

Segwit was a fork to the core bitcoin protocol that made implementation of lightning less difficult. Lightning network is a new protocol layer that is completely detached from the bitcoin protocol which rides on top of the core bitcoin network and allows the forwarding of secure redeemable but as of yet unredeemed IOUs that can be treated as bitcoin.

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[ABCbits]

Looks like Electrum will support LN very soon, this surely will boost LN usage since majority of Bitcoiner who own desktop use Electrum.

https://twitter.com/ElectrumWallet/status/1047498819133480961

[Rath_]

Looks like Electrum will support LN very soon, this surely will boost LN usage since majority of Bitcoiner who own desktop use Electrum.

I wonder if Electrum is going to support receiving funds over the Lightning Network. LND already supports "disabling" channels which means that the routing problem should not be present anymore. This solution should be implemented in Electrum as well in order to avoid the increase of offline channels which might cause problems while sending payments. I have just watched the end of the event's stream and it was mentioned that a new version with the Lightning Network support should be released in a few months. There is no need to rush.

[xbossJ]

I understand very little about lightening network! I do know that for lightening network, some transactions are taken off chain! Question that bogs me most is how do the transactions get reconciled/synced with on-chain to avoid double spending issues?? and a unified record on the blockchain itself!!

[Rath_]

I do know that for lightening network, some transactions are taken off chain!

Every single transaction made on the Lightning Network is an off-chain one. In order to start using the Lightning Network you have to open a channel with someone else using specialised software. Opening and closing channel requires broadcasting on-chain transactions.

how do the transactions get reconciled/synced with on-chain to avoid double spending issues??

The Lightning Network works thanks to Hashed TimeLock Contracts. The current penalty system requires both nodes to be online once every day (144 blocks) by default (it can be negotiated) to check whether or not the other party attempted to cheat. If so, a penalty transaction is being broadcast. Off-chain funds can't be spend on-chain since they are locked up in a multi-signature address. Everything is settled down after the channel closure.

[degenLove]

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

[Zin-Zang]

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

    
Flaws in LN (Lightning Network). 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5031079.0

[d5000]

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

LN is not the only scaling technology for Bitcoin, albeit it's the most advanced one - all other are concepts, whitepapers or early testnet alphas (e.g. Drivechain). But if LN "goes wrong" then that doesn't mean Bitcoin will be doomed. And LN has already advanced to the point where it can be used for small amounts - so the possibility for it to "go wrong" gets smaller and smaller.

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?

Simply look at the development repos and other sources:

https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair (Eclair)
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd (LND/Neutrino)
https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning (C-Lightning)
https://blog.lightning.engineering/ (Blog of the LND developers)
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev (Lightning Development Mailing List)

I need to retake my testing of Neutrino/LND.

[Wind_FURY]

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

    
Flaws in LN (Lightning Network). 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5031079.0

Is this another attempt to put the blame on the developers for market crashes? degenLove, no the Lightning Network is NOT "helping holding the 6k". Plus no, Lightning MIGHT make a huge impact or it won't, but the "market" is not betting its hopes in it.

Bitcoin has already proven itself to be sounder money than fiat.

[Rath_]

Proposals which were accepted to the Lightning Network Specification 1.1 are available here. The most notable ones (for an average user) are dual funded channels + proper advertising of such channels, Replace-By-Fee for funding transaction (not available for uncooperative close for obvious reasons), channel splicing, multi-path payments, increased maxchannel capacity and hidden destinations. More information can be found in the link above.

[Carlton Banks]

Port forwarding doesn't work on those bad IP's (I can't upload data to my peers). Does it make a difference for running a LN node?

Yes, port forwarding makes a difference. But lightning doesn't need lots of listening nodes to add resilience to the network in the same way bitcoin does, but setting it up without port forwarding/listening only really benefits you (you will basically have a node that only your manual connected peers will see, the rest of the network will be unaware your node exists, so you won't be routing any payments). This is still useful; you can still set up channels, and monitor those channels.

If it does is it possible to connect to someone else's node to run my LN node?

Not sure if any of the lightning clients (clightning or lnd) allow this yet. Same applies, you can't accept incoming connections without port forwarding.

One solution is to use tor and a hidden service IP. The tor onion IP will be static, and tor client forwards ports. You can do the same for your own bitcoin node too, probably a good idea to investigate if it's better to use separate .onion IP addresses for the lightning node and the bitcoin node (I would expect the answer is "yes", for the sake of the privacy of people who would route payments through your lightning node). That would help both networks.

[nefIndustries]

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

LN is a layer two solution, meaning it is built on top of & completely separate from the Bitcoin blockchain that has been running for almost 10 years. While the Lightning Network may help increase adoption, its impact will likely not be seen for at least a year or two. The network is growing at a faster rate every day. LND is hard to run for regular users right now. Right now, to implement a node using all the features available (connecting to peers, opening channels, funding channels, making sure you are properly connected to peers & the network) you must be fluent in some sort of command line interface, understand internet trafficking, IP addresses, and be comfortable using and reading information from a terminal. It may be scary at first, but with a drive to learn on your own, perseverance, and a little bravery, I know you can do it!

If that doesn't sound appealing to you, there are applications are being built with a user interface, making it feel much safer and less chaotic.

If the lightning network failed right now, I don't think it would result in a massive dump. I think this because not very many people are using it & regular people are not paying attention to Bitcoin right now. If it failed during the craziness of December 2017, I think it would result in a massive dump, because people who buy at the top don't understand the technology and they would think it was actually Bitcoin that had failed. However, we know that it is a layer two solution and is completely separate from the standard Bitcoin Blockchain.


As for resources to keep an eye on development:
These are the three main BOLT protocol implementations

This is one resource for news from the applications built on top of these implementations

Here you can see Lightning Nodes and their Channels

And finally here is an extra resource to keep you busy and learning for days!

When you are hungry for more come back here! 

[Wind_FURY]

There is $1,800,000 in there. We should have a campaign underway to make Bitcoin merchants, casino gambling sites, and exchanges play with the Lightning Network.

Where can we find some good guides for merchants to set up Lightning to experiment with, and what are the channels to find community tech support?

https://www.longhash.com/news/lightnings-crazy-fast-growth

Today, over 450 BTC ($1,800,000) is held in Lightning Network channels -- a 100x increase in channel capacity since February. In addition, there are currently over 16,000 channels on main net -- a 16x increase in channels since February.

[JayJuanGee]

There is $1,800,000 in there. We should have a campaign underway to make Bitcoin merchants, casino gambling sites, and exchanges play with the Lightning Network.

Where can we find some good guides for merchants to set up Lightning to experiment with, and what are the channels to find community tech support?

https://www.longhash.com/news/lightnings-crazy-fast-growth

Today, over 450 BTC ($1,800,000) is held in Lightning Network channels -- a 100x increase in channel capacity since February. In addition, there are currently over 16,000 channels on main net -- a 16x increase in channels since February.

I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

[ABCbits]

I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

Track LN network capacity is pretty easy since all you need to do is check for 2-of-2 multi-sig HLTC transaction on bitcoin network. It's simple and effective method as almost nobody use such transaction format.

Private network/channel only prevent your transaction tracked from services such as https://1ml.com/, but it's not really private if you make channel directly to public node. CMIIW.

[JayJuanGee]

I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

Track LN network capacity is pretty easy since all you need to do is check for 2-of-2 multi-sig HLTC transaction on bitcoin network. It's simple and effective method as almost nobody use such transaction format.

Private network/channel only prevent your transaction tracked from services such as https://1ml.com/, but it's not really private if you make channel directly to public node. CMIIW.

So the punchline is that the 450-ish BTC on the lightning network is a largely accurate assessment of its full capacity?

[ABCbits]

So the punchline is that the 450-ish BTC on the lightning network is a largely accurate assessment of its full capacity?

AFAIK yes, even though there might be another way to track LN capacity that i dont know.
But FYI, it doesn't reflect amount of BTC you can sent through LN since that depends on amount of BTC that can send/receive on each channel which used on your payment routing path.

[Wind_FURY]

There is $1,800,000 in there. We should have a campaign underway to make Bitcoin merchants, casino gambling sites, and exchanges play with the Lightning Network.

Where can we find some good guides for merchants to set up Lightning to experiment with, and what are the channels to find community tech support?

https://www.longhash.com/news/lightnings-crazy-fast-growth

Today, over 450 BTC ($1,800,000) is held in Lightning Network channels -- a 100x increase in channel capacity since February. In addition, there are currently over 16,000 channels on main net -- a 16x increase in channels since February.

I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

I'm confused, private channels? Aren't all open channels detected by checking the nodes of the Lightning Network? https://rompert.com/recksplorer/

I am also a Lightning newbie. Haha.

[Wind_FURY]

Newbie question. Would it then be correct to make an assumption that there's really more than $1,800,000 in total channel capacity in the network?

[Carlton Banks]

Newbie question. Would it then be correct to make an assumption that there's really more than $1,800,000 in total channel capacity in the network?

If there are 2 or more networks, there are 2 or more totals