[ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded

[Lolcust]

Just one more thing some of you respected speculators might enjoy playing with in your spare time

https://btc-e.com/tbx_exchanger

[eldentyrell_old]

Please explain why anybody should care about the fact that a cryptocurrency is "GPU-hostile" yet not custom-hardware-hostile.

[worldinacoin]

You get higher price for such coins I guess.   Since it is much more difficult to mine than GPU friendly coins.

[eldentyrell_old]

You get higher price for such coins I guess.   Since it is much more difficult to mine than GPU friendly coins.

What silly nonsense.  It is no harder to mine; it just requires a different kind of device.

[Lolcust]

Please explain why anybody should care about the fact that a cryptocurrency is "GPU-hostile" yet not custom-hardware-hostile.

It's actually quite FPGA resistant. You need a 700+ buck FPGA to reach performance of a 100 buck CPU in Tenebrix (Already tested by Art, talk to him if you want nitty-gritty details)

Of course, ASIC customized to the task ("lots of fast memory" as you put it) could crunch this baybe fairly well, but for the love of Zod, TBX has to become hellishly expensive and hellishly popular for it to make sense to even try developing such a solution (and implementing it would likely still make no sense, since economies of scale make CPUs very cheap, and it is likely that the number of CPU crunchers you can deploy for the cost of a single "mem-rich" application-specific design would still outperform said application-specific scrypt-cruncher).

So it is quite hostile to at least one common class of "custom" hardware, and another one is plan uneconomical to deploy.

Also bear in mind that CPUs are common household items, even powerful multicoire ones. GPUs suited for mining well are less common. FPGAs are pretty much scientific and special-purpose exotica, and a Tenebrix-optimized ASIC is a theoretic entity, so Tenebrix has a potentially huge miner base, being well suited for the one of the most common types of computational substrate available, and less tendency to have its minerbase concentrated.

And of course there is the fact that CPUs GPUs and FPGAs all retain uses other than "mining some cryptocurrency" while a hypothetical Tenebrix ASIC will be only good for breaking a certain implementation of Scrypt, thus being completely worthless outside Tenebrix network, making a dedicated "Tenebrix cruncher board" even more economically unsound

So to sum up, Tenebrix is GPU-hostile and quite FPGAs hostile, and sufficiently tricky that even powerful ASICs (should such ever be designed for Tenebrix) would likely still be inferior to CPUs (but this time due to costs involved in making those ASICs happen)

All in all, quite custom-hardware hostile, it turns out to be.

[Frozenace]

I had a go at mining these since yesterday and it's really quite difficult to get a block...

I'm using:

1x i5 (4threads)
1x q6600 (3 threads)
1x athlon x2 (1 thread)
and 1 8-core xeon server (8 threads).

so far I've only managed to get 1 block on the i5... close to 20 hours now.

[Lolcust]

I had a go at mining these since yesterday and it's really quite difficult to get a block...

I'm using:

1x i5 (4threads)
1x q6600 (3 threads)
1x athlon x2 (1 thread)
and 1 8-core xeon server (8 threads).

so far I've only managed to get 1 block on the i5... close to 20 hours now.

Hm, there are quite a bunch of heavy-hitters mining and hoarding TBX right now, and quite a bunch of miners of other coins running it at idle priority on their rigs, so soloing TBX might be a mite tricky, though what you report seems a mite too pessimistic. What scantimes are you using?

Also, did you try the new Tenebrix pool @ simplecoin.us ?

[Edward50]

What are the max coins that can be mined, can't seem to find it?

[Frozenace]

Ok, I got 3 blocks now... I'm just using default settings.

[grod]

The new algorithm is a good idea, but if you're trading (or otherwise supporting) this block chain you need to be aware that the founder "pre-mined" *3 years* worth of coins.  I'll let that sink in.  If you got in on day 1 you weren't an early adopter,  you were equivalent to some schmoe getting into bitcoin some time NEXT YEAR.  That's why the mining reward is 25 brix/block, because the founder took the first 3 years worth of coins for himself.

Priority one for all these scamchains is to get onto exchanges and be available for liquidation.  Even before mining pools.  Every chain this guy makes is listed on some exchange faster than you can say "wallet rape."

As long as the founder of this (same guy as geistgeld) keeps coughing up enough shitcoin variants at a rate of once per week he can make a good living from those not able to beat him to the exit.  For this one, with an exchange of .002 brix/btc he awarded himself 14,000 BTC (or at current prices, $60,000).  Not bad for a few days of work.

That's why the smart money in all the alt chains has their shitcoins for sale as soon as they're mined.  The tech is good, but IMO the future of this particular block chain is dubious.  I'm enjoying the bonus free ~BTC a day from this chain, of course.  No reason not to profit while it's still possible.

[Frozenace]

He's making it pretty clear that the chain is supposed to use spare CPU capacity. At the moment he can't really dump 7 million coins onto the market, so that has to wait for a while.

[grod]

He's making it pretty clear that the chain is supposed to use spare CPU capacity. At the moment he can't really dump 7 million coins onto the market, so that has to wait for a while.

"Spare" cpu capacity still takes power (unless you're the botnet that just destroyed fairbrix and may or may not do the same to tenebrix).  He doesn't have to dump all 7 million -- so far with a week's worth of mining the community has generated less than 50k.  If he sells even 25% of what the rest of the miners generate he can still cash out pretty well without even impacting the "7 million."

Hence the posts to the speculation forum instead of keeping this in the alternative currencies forum until the "experimental" currency is ready for adoption.  The intent is to have greedy but ignorant investors provide more established, valuable currency ASAP.

Even if he makes $10k a week generating new shitcoin variants that's till a pretty good income for minor code changes and board spam.

I don't mind, it's free money to me.  But the "buy and hold" approach holds huge risks here.

[Lolcust]

The new algorithm is a good idea, but if you're trading (or otherwise supporting) this block chain you need to be aware that the founder "pre-mined" *3 years* worth of coins.  I'll let that sink in.  If you got in on day 1 you weren't an early adopter,  you were equivalent to some schmoe getting into bitcoin some time NEXT YEAR.  That's why the mining reward is 25 brix/block, because the founder took the first 3 years worth of coins for himself.

Priority one for all these scamchains is to get onto exchanges and be available for liquidation.  Even before mining pools.  Every chain this guy makes is listed on some exchange faster than you can say "wallet rape."

As long as the founder of this (same guy as geistgeld) keeps coughing up enough shitcoin variants at a rate of once per week he can make a good living from those not able to beat him to the exit.  For this one, with an exchange of .002 brix/btc he awarded himself 14,000 BTC (or at current prices, $60,000).  Not bad for a few days of work

Given that the premined coinage's existence and intent is stated on the official site and in the forums, and is trivially monitorable, you hardly need to make anyone with english reading skills "aware" of it (and those without won't get your post anyway)

Now, if I was really at a race to the exit, I would have cashed out before a pool, don't you think ?  

Hence the posts to the speculation forum instead of keeping this in the alternative currencies forum until the "experimental" currency is ready for adoption.  The intent is to have greedy but ignorant investors provide more established, valuable currency ASAP.
 

Nah, more like "some of the shmott  speculator folks might enjoy toying on this small market with their spare change for fun or out of experimental curiosity".

It's not like I'm saying that it's the next HUGE THING BUY ALL OF IT NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE, amrite ?

He's making it pretty clear that the chain is supposed to use spare CPU capacity. At the moment he can't really dump 7 million coins onto the market, so that has to wait for a while.

Actually, that would be pretty silly of me given that I know at least two people who are watching my premines via automatic tools. It's not very hard given that blockexplorer is up

[Frozenace]

Maybe you can phase out some of the coins eventually, that would drive up the price and build credibility.

[grod]

Given that the premined coinage's existence and intent is stated on the official site and in the forums, and is trivially monitorable, you hardly need to make anyone with english reading skills "aware" of it (and those without won't get your post anyway)

Then the more it's mentioned the better, right?  I don't remember seeng "I've given myself about six years worth of coins the rest of you schmucks will mine" (and that's what 3 years worth of 50 btc/block turns into at 25 btc/block) featured prominently on the tenebrix website.  Me, I think that fact needs a bit more stress and exposure than it's received.

Now, if I was really at a race to the exit, I would have cashed out before a pool, don't you think ?  

The problem with pyramids is you never know when the end will come.  It's all a guessing game.  The longer and bigger the pyramid lasts, the bigger the stake.  If tenebrix does take off you stand to win a lot more than $60,000.  It's a risk of existing vs potential payout.  Besides, if you cash out now you'll only get 2 chains worth of reward.  If you can get a dozen or more chains going before cashing out you'll do far better.

Plus you can, at some point, distribute some malware with the final shitcoin variant du jour, making the ultimate payout even sweeter.

Actually, that would be pretty silly of me given that I know at least two people who are watching my premines via automatic tools. It's not very hard given that blockexplorer is up

Good for them.  But if you DO decide there's enough bids on the exchanges to cash out by the time they get the warning it'll be too late to do anything about it.  Their transactions (and any other speculator transactions), will be behind yours.

Also, isn't your goal to provide a coinage laundry service?  Just wondering when it'll be time to "test" it with your premined GG and brix.

Just picking on you because IMO you got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too greedy with the premine total on tenebrix.  Any of the alt chain pyramids with gigantic premine totals are like that.  Hell, bitcoin itself, with a 1.5M Satoshi premine is like that.
But your latest is truly an amazing display of chutzpah.   

[Lolcust]

Given that the premined coinage's existence and intent is stated on the official site and in the forums, and is trivially monitorable, you hardly need to make anyone with english reading skills "aware" of it (and those without won't get your post anyway)

Then the more it's mentioned the better, right?  I don't remember seeng "I've given myself about six years worth of coins the rest of you schmucks will mine" (and that's what 3 years worth of 50 btc/block turns into at 25 btc/block) featured prominently on the tenebrix website.  Me, I think that fact needs a bit more stress and exposure than it's received.

Well, the year count depends on whether you count the coins I already pledged for the faucet, and methinks that the fact being mentioned in the faq alongside with other technical details is pretty fair of me.

The problem with pyramids is you never know when the end will come.  It's all a guessing game.  The longer and bigger the pyramid lasts, the bigger the stake.  If tenebrix does take off you stand to win a lot more than $60,000.  It's a risk of existing vs potential payout.  Besides, if you cash out now you'll only get 2 chains worth of reward.  If you can get a dozen or more chains going before cashing out you'll do far better.

Plus you can, at some point, distribute some malware with the final shitcoin variant du jour, making the ultimate payout even sweeter.

Yeah, I am actually a master hacker, just pretending to be a graphic designer who does alt-coins for fun. And, after some consideration, would also like to confess that I am Satoshi

(And of course it was me who stole 40 cakes.   )

But I sort of like your paranoid mentality.

Good for them.  But if you DO decide there's enough bids on the exchanges to cash out by the time they get the warning it'll be too late to do anything about it.  Their transactions (and any other speculator transactions), will be behind yours.

Um, tenebrix is not verily fast in terms of accumulating confirmations, and the warning will be triggered when I move money to exchange. By the time they "get" there (accumulate enough confirmations) there will be a panic spree already in progress.

Also, isn't your goal to provide a coinage laundry service?  Just wondering when it'll be time to "test" it with your premined GG and brix.

Yes, those that don't go for bounties to devs and services go for that, and I will announce an open beta when it is implemented (currently, some very interesting stuff is discussed, but I need to run it through people like ArtForz just to know for sure it can be done securely and I don't get to sound like a doofus, before I even openly start discussing it  )

I will invite ya

Just picking on you because IMO you got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too greedy with the premine total on tenebrix.

I am getting quite bored with the stale and inherently subjective discussion of "how big a premine is okay, and how big is not-okay", but I have already pledged 2 mils to a faucet not under my control so some of the concerned folks might sigh a sigh of relief that I now control less "mine-years".

If you think that I got "too far" and my "grasp exceeded grasp" you could at least say how many millions would you be okay with. would 1.5 be okay ?

Any of the alt chain pyramids with gigantic premine totals are like that.  Hell, bitcoin itself, with a 1.5M Satoshi premine is like that.

Actually, btc is interesting in that not only "satoshi coinage" but other large unmoving coin masses do not concern speculators in the slightest (and I think that it doesn't matter whether the mass that crashes your market to shit is 0.7 mil or 7 mil, much like there is no difference between being crushed to death by a honda or an 18-wheel supertruck)

Maybe you can phase out some of the coins eventually, that would drive up the price and build credibility.

Uh, phase out ?

I find the idea...intriguing... could you outline it in more details ?

P.S.: Currently, TBX's price isnt bad for a coin less than 5 days old and only pool and exchange to boast off. The days of huge buy-ins at coin launch are over due to i0 pwnage and SC's embarrassing undead condition.

Still, so far it's a market you can play with for beer change, and methinks that denizens of this subforum might enjoy that.

[Frozenace]

Some companies buy back their own stock and invalidate them, thereby raising the price.

Maybe part of the fund could be used to buy some hardware to ensure minimal operation? Of course you can't really protect against a botnet...

I'm no economist, but I'm sure the whole Cryptoeconomy environment would lend itself to some academic studies etc.
Funding to manipulate currencies, haha.

[Lolcust]

Some companies buy back their own stock and invalidate them, thereby raising the price.

Maybe part of the fund could be used to buy some hardware to ensure minimal operation? Of course you can't really protect against a botnet...

Well, frankly, I'd rather hire developers than buy "cold iron". In fact, I intend to use a large portion exactly for that.

Devs are more useful than a bunch of boxes. Also, more fun.

Also, I've already pledged 2 mil to fuel a "long faucet" (more likely, several) and I think you've read about the whole "transaction mixing buffer" thing

I'm no economist, but I'm sure the whole Cryptoeconomy environment would lend itself to some academic studies etc.

Well, this thing is, to some degree, and experiment, done for fun and out of curiosity (BTC too is an experiment in progress, just one that is getting more and more serious in its attitude)

One of the main reasons why I made GG and TBX is because I think things are getting way too stale with the srs bzns attitude taking hold in the community.

[bulanula]

Given that the premined coinage's existence and intent is stated on the official site and in the forums, and is trivially monitorable, you hardly need to make anyone with english reading skills "aware" of it (and those without won't get your post anyway)

Then the more it's mentioned the better, right?  I don't remember seeng "I've given myself about six years worth of coins the rest of you schmucks will mine" (and that's what 3 years worth of 50 btc/block turns into at 25 btc/block) featured prominently on the tenebrix website.  Me, I think that fact needs a bit more stress and exposure than it's received.

Now, if I was really at a race to the exit, I would have cashed out before a pool, don't you think ?  

The problem with pyramids is you never know when the end will come.  It's all a guessing game.  The longer and bigger the pyramid lasts, the bigger the stake.  If tenebrix does take off you stand to win a lot more than $60,000.  It's a risk of existing vs potential payout.  Besides, if you cash out now you'll only get 2 chains worth of reward.  If you can get a dozen or more chains going before cashing out you'll do far better.

Plus you can, at some point, distribute some malware with the final shitcoin variant du jour, making the ultimate payout even sweeter.

Actually, that would be pretty silly of me given that I know at least two people who are watching my premines via automatic tools. It's not very hard given that blockexplorer is up

Good for them.  But if you DO decide there's enough bids on the exchanges to cash out by the time they get the warning it'll be too late to do anything about it.  Their transactions (and any other speculator transactions), will be behind yours.

Also, isn't your goal to provide a coinage laundry service?  Just wondering when it'll be time to "test" it with your premined GG and brix.

Just picking on you because IMO you got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too greedy with the premine total on tenebrix.  Any of the alt chain pyramids with gigantic premine totals are like that.  Hell, bitcoin itself, with a 1.5M Satoshi premine is like that.
But your latest is truly an amazing display of chutzpah.  

MAN to be honest I think you are not giving this man enough credit !!! He made a new world record in premined virtual coinage and all the coding is done by ArtForz ( wonder what he is getting in return ? maybe the .exe is a trojan and he gets to play with our machines etc. ? ) so truly a new record. To bad I am not a coder to create the newest ScamCoin daily served with a fat dose of BS  

Waiting on SolidCoin 2 but don't think that will be much of a refresh with its tax but much better than 7 million premined.

[Lolcust]

Waiting on SolidCoin 2 but don't think that will be much of a refresh with its tax but much better than 7 million premined.

Actually, it's  premining with no upper bound and  using your electricity

Also don't forget completely unaudited "reimbursement" thing.

So no, I am quite a humble little man compared to a shining Demigod that is Coin Hunter, a true incarnation of Loki among us, simple mortals.

 To bad I am not a coder to create the newest ScamCoin daily

It's not coding skills you lack, but imagination  

all the coding is done by ArtForz  

Now this, ladies an gentlemen, should actually improve your confidence, because ArtForz's work is quite awesome indeed.