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Author Topic: Possible 51% Attack on fairbrix (fbx)  (Read 4786 times)
OneMINER
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October 02, 2011, 10:40:43 PM
 #1

After some difficulty fairbirx was released recently. Shortly after many early adopters had their blocks invalidated. There has been some speculation that an unknown attacker executed a 51% attack effectivly stealing approximatly 1,600 blocks. Lolcust and I were talking about this and decided that making our conversation public might do some good. So I'm posting our conversation below.

Additional info:

Fairbrix Source is here: https://github.com/coblee/Fairbrix
Windows binaries here: http://www.mediafire.com/?9gc2
If you use IRC a fairbirx channel is on freenode at #fairbrix

Here is the conversation between Lolcust and I:

OneMINER:
I was wondering how an accidental 51% attack would occur. If I have some huge farm of CPUs and I start hashing for a coin I do work on the NEXT BLOCK right? Why would a legit miner with legit software start a chain over accidentally?

Based on what I know (and thats not much). The accidental argument sounds like BS. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

Lolcust:
FBX is tiny. As in, below 20% of TBX (and TBX isn't big yet).  
I find it far from implausible that the net got fragmented in an uncanny way and then reconstituted in a manner that orphaned everything.

In fact, I would not call it "impossible" that it was one of those dudes with "fixed up configs" reasserting dominance (in case of a fork, the chain with highest sum of work asserts dominance, and someone who mined for all the time that re-launch was prepared definitely has higher sum of work)

Only competent chain analysis will reveal the truth, but again, the only reason GG "relaunch" did not result in pwnt chain re-asserting itself was that I changed the start-message thingamabobbles for GG2, so that the "oldnet" couldn't chat with "newnet"

OneMINER:
I respect your opinion but frankly that's ridiculous. Fracturing net? So fractured that traffic doesn't get rerouted? I think not. Also if a person edited the faulty software so that it was compatible with the newer software why would the program try to start a new chain again? If it can communicate with other nodes it would download the chain and hash at it like a normal miner. The fact that it orphaned blocks is proof that it communicates with other nodes.

I ask you to reconsider your comments and if you so choose to throw your weight at killing off this chain. Allowing thieves to attack crypto coins and profit from it is unjust and immoral. If you feel like it I think discussing this in public might also be a good idea.

Thanks.

Lolcust:

Quote from: OneMINER on Today at 09:52:44 PM
I respect your opinion but frankly that's ridiculous. Fracturing net? So fractured that traffic doesn't get rerouted? I think not. Also if a person edited the faulty software so that it was compatible with the newer software why would the program try to start a new chain again? If it can communicate with other nodes it would download the chain and hash at it like a normal miner. The fact that it orphaned blocks is proof that it communicates with other nodes.

Um, well yeah, fracturing is not likely. A "bigger" (in the "more work" sense) chain with same pcharstarts being built during the time that you were re-launching ? Not entirely unlikely.

Did you change the pchar-thingies?


Quote from: OneMINER on Today at 09:52:44 PM
I ask you to reconsider your comments and if you so choose to throw your weight at killing off this chain.

Well, best course of action is to analyze the affected chain. I think we should contact   Theymos (theymos is known to have a blockchain-analysis hobby)

Also, I didn't quite get the "throw weight to kill it off" part... whom must I kill ?

Quote from: OneMINER on Today at 09:52:44 PM
Allowing thieves to attack crypto coins and profit from it is unjust and immoral. If you feel like it I think discussing this in public might also be a good idea.

Well, assuming it was indeed a 51-er theft, the attacker has so far failed to generate a profit since no exchange accepts fairbrix.

And discussing it in public is quite a good idea, IMHO. I think you can post this exchange in a thread of your choice (maybe a new one, since this is an interesting and distinct incident) and we can continue from there.


*Edit* If you have an opinion on the matter please post it but keep it on topic. Please ignore and do not comment on the posts that have nothing to do with fairbirx, 51% attacks or other such things. Thank you.
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October 02, 2011, 11:02:09 PM
 #2

Quote
Did you change the pchar-thingies?
+1

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coblee
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October 03, 2011, 03:30:53 AM
 #3

The pchar message headers were changes AND a new genesis block was created. So there's no way that the old fairbrix client was the culprit. It is possible that this chain reorg was accidental, but not likely. Anyways, it seems like the overall network hashrate has grown and it's harder to pull off this attack now. And given that fairbrix has no value right now, it's not really worth it to keep attacking it.

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October 03, 2011, 04:13:32 AM
 #4

The pchar message headers were changes AND a new genesis block was created. So there's no way that the old fairbrix client was the culprit. It is possible that this chain reorg was accidental, but not likely. Anyways, it seems like the overall network hashrate has grown and it's harder to pull off this attack now. And given that fairbrix has no value right now, it's not really worth it to keep attacking it.

Then it was never worth it to attack it in the first place. Why would anyone pursue such an attack when there's no exchange? The only reason I can think that anyone might want to attack it would be in preparation for attacking tenebrix, which you can exchange. Maybe some of the RS/CH sycophants were a little worried Smiley

Still, I'd be willing to bet that it comes down to an accidental fork. Has anyone done any real investigation of this yet?


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CoinHunter
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October 03, 2011, 04:18:59 AM
 #5

The pchar message headers were changes AND a new genesis block was created. So there's no way that the old fairbrix client was the culprit. It is possible that this chain reorg was accidental, but not likely. Anyways, it seems like the overall network hashrate has grown and it's harder to pull off this attack now. And given that fairbrix has no value right now, it's not really worth it to keep attacking it.

Then it was never worth it to attack it in the first place. Why would anyone pursue such an attack when there's no exchange? The only reason I can think that anyone might want to attack it would be in preparation for attacking tenebrix, which you can exchange. Maybe some of the RS/CH sycophants were a little worried Smiley

Still, I'd be willing to bet that it comes down to an accidental fork. Has anyone done any real investigation of this yet?

Actually there are 2 people who visit these forums who have already been involved in 51% attacks or coordinating them. Artforz and Thebitcoinexpress. Lolcust is partnered with Artforz for his 2 coins. Is it any surprise something which forked from tenebrix was attacked by artforz, someone already known to be doing such attacks?

Doesn't matter though, artforz could 51% attack bitcoin and he'd still be lauded by people around here it seems.

SolidCoin 2.0 will have none of this drama with the hackers, and it will be the only chain that businesses can rely on to not get robbed.

Try SolidCoin or talk with other SolidCoin supporters here SolidCoin Forums
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October 03, 2011, 04:34:04 AM
 #6


SolidCoin 2.0 will have none of this drama with the hackers, and it will be the only chain that businesses can rely on to not get robbed.

Businesses will rely on a chain that has been down for more then a week and can be turned on and off by the will of one person?

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October 03, 2011, 04:48:36 AM
 #7

Setup a testnet, let's find out.

BTW the solution to supposed "GPU Hostile" platforms like Tenebrix, Fairbrix and your copy cat SolidCoin lies within the GPU hardware accelerator used with IE9 beta.  Modified hardware acceleration, so simple I can't believe it was overlooked. Have I tested it successfully, you be the judge.

LOL, I thought you had me on ignore? And yes, feel free to point your Geforce2MX mining army at SC2.0, do your best (which if I had a sticker for participation, you'd get one).

Try SolidCoin or talk with other SolidCoin supporters here SolidCoin Forums
freequant
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October 03, 2011, 05:35:24 AM
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Doesn't matter though, artforz could 51% attack bitcoin and he'd still be lauded by people around here it seems.
SolidCoin 2.0 will have none of this drama with the hackers, and it will be the only chain that businesses can rely on to not get robbed.

You have got to understand what natural selection means.
There can (and will) exist an inifinity of chains, all of them claiming to be the best.
But only a selected few will garner enough market capitalization to make it to the real world economy.
These got to be bullet proof by the time they are picked by the financial industry.

So, yes, ArtForz attacked SolidCoin, and yes, that laid waste in the chain, and that looked bad for you.
But you have got to admit that your chain wasn't fit. In fact you already admitted it by creating SC2.
ArtForz deserves credit for wasting time, efforts and resources for the only purpose of proving you wrong.
He paid his duty to the selection process.

Now you have got an original idea with SC2 when you decided to pick a more CPU friendly hash function.
ArtForz shamelessly copied you but improved on it by changing the hash function with a whitepaper backed memory-hard hash one, and that is good.
And someone already copied ArtForz, stripped the premined 7M, and rebranded it as FairCoin. Lame but effective.

It's jungle here, man.
So welcome to pick back stuff from *Brix, put it in SolidCoin and, yes, even bitch as much as you want about other currencies.
That's all within the rules, because there are no rules.
bulanula
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October 03, 2011, 09:01:35 AM
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Doesn't matter though, artforz could 51% attack bitcoin and he'd still be lauded by people around here it seems.
SolidCoin 2.0 will have none of this drama with the hackers, and it will be the only chain that businesses can rely on to not get robbed.

You have got to understand what natural selection means.
There can (and will) exist an inifinity of chains, all of them claiming to be the best.
But only a selected few will garner enough market capitalization to make it to the real world economy.
These got to be bullet proof by the time they are picked by the financial industry.

So, yes, ArtForz attacked SolidCoin, and yes, that laid waste in the chain, and that looked bad for you.
But you have got to admit that your chain wasn't fit. In fact you already admitted it by creating SC2.
ArtForz deserves credit for wasting time, efforts and resources for the only purpose of proving you wrong.
He paid his duty to the selection process.

Now you have got an original idea with SC2 when you decided to pick a more CPU friendly hash function.
ArtForz shamelessly copied you but improved on it by changing the hash function with a whitepaper backed memory-hard hash one, and that is good.
And someone already copied ArtForz, stripped the premined 7M, and rebranded it as FairCoin. Lame but effective.

It's jungle here, man.
So welcome to pick back stuff from *Brix, put it in SolidCoin and, yes, even bitch as much as you want about other currencies.
That's all within the rules, because there are no rules.

Nice describing Tenebrix, Fairbrix and Solidcoin 2. Hopefully I can mine other stuff than Tenecrap because ATM Solidcoin 2 and Fairbrix is down due to attack by Artforz and his buddy lolcust ( maybe same person too ? ) which cannot understand "competition" when it comes to CPU mining etc.
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October 03, 2011, 09:09:25 AM
 #10

Okay, any evidence to back up the libelous claim ?

BTW, FYI, I helped make and launch FBX ^__^

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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October 03, 2011, 09:13:19 AM
 #11

Nice describing Tenebrix, Fairbrix and Solidcoin 2. Hopefully I can mine other stuff than Tenecrap because ATM Solidcoin 2 and Fairbrix is down due to attack by Artforz and his buddy lolcust ( maybe same person too ? ) which cannot understand "competition" when it comes to CPU mining etc.
I see, the SC shills are again out in force making libelous claims about their "competition".
Guess they have to distract everyone from "2.0 Public Beta Testnet this weekend" followed by a whole lot of nothing...

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bulanula
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October 03, 2011, 09:18:43 AM
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Nice describing Tenebrix, Fairbrix and Solidcoin 2. Hopefully I can mine other stuff than Tenecrap because ATM Solidcoin 2 and Fairbrix is down due to attack by Artforz and his buddy lolcust ( maybe same person too ? ) which cannot understand "competition" when it comes to CPU mining etc.
I see, the SC shills are again out in force making libelous claims about their "competition".
Guess they have to distract everyone from "2.0 Public Beta Testnet this weekend" followed by a whole lot of nothing...

Yep back in force once their master and them noticed CPUs are not immune from attack either throwing a monkey wrench in the plans.

Just a FYI, I am not a SC troll but it seems like you are trolling SC without reason. If you actually took some time to see the new SC2 release, you would have seen it certainly is the best CPU mining chain ATM. It has some clever features not even bitcoin has and hopefully it can launch and we can test it really is the first chain that is 51% proof etc.
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October 03, 2011, 09:20:24 AM
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Just a FYI, I am not a SC troll but it seems like you are trolling SC without reason. If you actually took some time to see the new SC2 release, you would have seen it certainly is the best CPU mining chain ATM.

Where can one download that pile of ossom ^__~ ?

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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bulanula
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October 03, 2011, 09:30:04 AM
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Nice describing Tenebrix, Fairbrix and Solidcoin 2. Hopefully I can mine other stuff than Tenecrap because ATM Solidcoin 2 and Fairbrix is down due to attack by Artforz and his buddy lolcust ( maybe same person too ? ) which cannot understand "competition" when it comes to CPU mining etc.
I see, the SC shills are again out in force making libelous claims about their "competition".
Guess they have to distract everyone from "2.0 Public Beta Testnet this weekend" followed by a whole lot of nothing...

Yep back in force once their master and them noticed CPUs are not immune from attack either throwing a monkey wrench in the plans.

Just a FYI, I am not a SC troll but it seems like you are trolling SC without reason. If you actually took some time to see the new SC2 release, you would have seen it certainly is the best CPU mining chain ATM. It has some clever features not even bitcoin has and hopefully it can launch and we can test it really is the first chain that is 51% proof etc.

Go drink so more of that coolaid, I know your master RealSolid has yet to every put any of his great code to the test not once in a month has he backed up any of his claims so I don't believe his BS for a minute until proven otherwise.

Even if the code is not done yet, the ideas are better than bitcoin and any other chain out there. You just cannot see it because of you inherent hate towards any other chain that beats bitcoin.
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October 03, 2011, 09:33:23 AM
 #15

Here I must concede.

The idea to manufacture abstract quasi-value constructs for yourself on the hardware of other people using other people's electricity is indeed pure genius.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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ArtForz
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October 03, 2011, 09:55:52 AM
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Even if the code is not done yet, the ideas are better than bitcoin and any other chain out there. You just cannot see it because of you inherent hate towards any other chain that beats bitcoin.
Yes, and I have an idea for a chain that will be completely fair, immune to all known attacks, any possible unknown attack and even impossible unknown attacks! Mining it will also produce more power than it consumes. So not only will it revolutionize the global financial economy, it'll also fix the energy crisis, cure cancer and shit rainbows! And it'll be done Real Soon Now(tm).

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bulanula
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October 03, 2011, 09:58:25 AM
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Even if the code is not done yet, the ideas are better than bitcoin and any other chain out there. You just cannot see it because of you inherent hate towards any other chain that beats bitcoin.
Yes, and I have an idea for a chain that will be completely fair, immune to all known attacks, any possible unknown attack and even impossible unknown attacks! Mining it will also produce more power than it consumes. So not only will it revolutionize the global financial economy, it'll also fix the energy crisis, cure cancer and shit rainbows! And it'll be done Real Soon Now(tm).

Look, he is not promising to do all this. Let us just give him a chance to prove what he is saying then we can troll him.
CoinHunter
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October 03, 2011, 10:11:10 AM
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Yes, and I have an idea for a chain that will be completely fair, immune to all known attacks, any possible unknown attack and even impossible unknown attacks! Mining it will also produce more power than it consumes. So not only will it revolutionize the global financial economy, it'll also fix the energy crisis, cure cancer and shit rainbows! And it'll be done Real Soon Now(tm).

You? Have an idea?  Grin Please, you take copying to a whole new level. You ruined the comedy act when you started it with "I have an idea". And for what it's worth, when you and your playground chums don't manage to inflict any damage on SC2.0 what then? Going to crawl back into your little house built with failbrix? It's going to be hilarious.

Try SolidCoin or talk with other SolidCoin supporters here SolidCoin Forums
bulanula
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October 03, 2011, 10:12:50 AM
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Yes, and I have an idea for a chain that will be completely fair, immune to all known attacks, any possible unknown attack and even impossible unknown attacks! Mining it will also produce more power than it consumes. So not only will it revolutionize the global financial economy, it'll also fix the energy crisis, cure cancer and shit rainbows! And it'll be done Real Soon Now(tm).

Going to crawl back into your little house built with failbrix? It's going to be hilarious.

I seriously do not understand what some of you personally seem to have against the guy. He is damn funny as well LOL made my day.

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October 03, 2011, 10:36:06 AM
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Yes, and I have an idea for a chain that will be completely fair, immune to all known attacks, any possible unknown attack and even impossible unknown attacks! Mining it will also produce more power than it consumes. So not only will it revolutionize the global financial economy, it'll also fix the energy crisis, cure cancer and shit rainbows! And it'll be done Real Soon Now(tm).

You? Have an idea?  Grin Please, you take copying to a whole new level. You ruined the comedy act when you started it with "I have an idea". And for what it's worth, when you and your playground chums don't manage to inflict any damage on SC2.0 what then? Going to crawl back into your little house built with failbrix? It's going to be hilarious.
Nah I'm not like artforz, copying other code to solve problems which are simple. Take a look at my block init for example.

Code:
void BlockHash_Init()
{
    static unsigned char SomeArrogantText1[]="Back when I was born the world was different. As a kid I could run around the streets, build things in the forest, go to the beach and generally live a care free life. Sure I had video games and played them a fair amount but they didn't get in the way of living an adventurous life. The games back then were different too. They didn't require 40 hours of your life to finish. Oh the good old days, will you ever come back?";
    static unsigned char SomeArrogantText2[]="Why do most humans not understand their shortcomings? The funny thing with the human brain is it makes everyone arrogant at their core. Sure some may fight it more than others but in every brain there is something telling them, HEY YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD. THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE. But we can't all be that, can we? Well perhaps we can, introducing GODria, take 2 pills of this daily and you can be like RealSolid, lord of the universe.";
    static unsigned char SomeArrogantText3[]="What's up with kids like artforz that think it's good to attack other's work? He spent a year in the bitcoin scene riding on the fact he took some other guys SHA256 opencl code and made a miner out of it. Bravo artforz, meanwhile all the false praise goes to his head and he thinks he actually is a programmer. Real programmers innovate and create new work, they win through being better coders with better ideas. You're not real artforz, and I hear you like furries? What's up with that? You shouldn't go on IRC when you're drunk, people remember the weird stuff.";
    BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8 = new unsigned char[BLOCKHASH_1_PADSIZE+8];  //need the +8 for memory overwrites
    BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD32 = (uint32*)BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8;

    BlockHash_1_Q[0] = 0x6970F271;
    BlockHash_1_Q[1] = 0x6970F271 + PHI;
    BlockHash_1_Q[2] = 0x6970F271 + PHI + PHI;
    for (int i = 3; i < 4096; i++)  BlockHash_1_Q[i] = BlockHash_1_Q[i - 3] ^ BlockHash_1_Q[i - 2] ^ PHI ^ i;
    BlockHash_1_c=362436;
    BlockHash_1_i=4095;

    int count1=0,count2=0,count3=0;
    for(int x=0;x<(BLOCKHASH_1_PADSIZE/4)+2;x++)  BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD32[x] = BlockHash_1_rand();
    for(int x=0;x<BLOCKHASH_1_PADSIZE+8;x++)
    {
        switch(BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8[x]&3)
        {
            case 0: BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8[x] ^= SomeArrogantText1[count1++]; if(count1>=sizeof(SomeArrogantText1)) count1=0; break;
            case 1: BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8[x] ^= SomeArrogantText2[count2++]; if(count2>=sizeof(SomeArrogantText2)) count2=0; break;
            case 2: BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8[x] ^= SomeArrogantText3[count3++]; if(count3>=sizeof(SomeArrogantText3)) count3=0; break;
            case 3: BlockHash_1_MemoryPAD8[x] ^= 0xAA; break;
        }
    }
}
BlockHash_1_c=362436;
BlockHash_1_i=4095;
...
BlockHash_1_rand();

hmmm...
http://school.anhb.uwa.edu.au/personalpages/kwessen/shared/Marsaglia03.html

Hope you didn't forget to credit Mr. Marsaglia for the CMWC4096 RNG

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