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Author Topic: Do not invest in alternate cryptocurrencies or you will lose money!  (Read 2916 times)
t3a
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October 04, 2011, 05:23:55 AM
 #21

Any alternate currency that tries to copy this "finite supply" principle is doomed

Why?

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It is like saying that you are a monotheist, but you also want to believe in another God than the pre-existing one, because the new God looks better.

What?

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d.james
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October 04, 2011, 07:01:47 AM
 #22

Thanks for the heads up OP, but where the heck were you a month ago??

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October 04, 2011, 11:41:57 AM
 #23

I will agree (with an old post of MaGNeT) on one thing - mining for the lulz Smiley
I've put my name into the coinbase of a block in a lot of them (ix, i0, scv1, gg, tb)
(I guess I'll get around to tb0 and any others I've missed soon)

But I've ignored nmc coz their hack and lies on their web site about the fact they put data into the bitcoin block chain.
... and worse, a pull into the bitcoin git recently ( https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/074d584a04ee80123001728ad63d4fd7e9adb828 ) allows any merged mining coin to put extra data into the BTC block chain using the standard bitcoin interface.

So will the next cryptocurrency also add extra crap into the bitcoin block chain like nmc?
That commit pretty much leaves the way open and says yes go ahead and do it
(I raised an issue on git requesting the commit to be removed due to it being deceptive and not stating the truth behind the reason it exists, but obviously that's not the normal channel to do it that way)

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racerguy
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October 23, 2011, 10:55:11 PM
 #24

I will agree (with an old post of MaGNeT) on one thing - mining for the lulz Smiley
I've put my name into the coinbase of a block in a lot of them (ix, i0, scv1, gg, tb)
(I guess I'll get around to tb0 and any others I've missed soon)

But I've ignored nmc coz their hack and lies on their web site about the fact they put data into the bitcoin block chain.
... and worse, a pull into the bitcoin git recently ( https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/074d584a04ee80123001728ad63d4fd7e9adb828 ) allows any merged mining coin to put extra data into the BTC block chain using the standard bitcoin interface.

So will the next cryptocurrency also add extra crap into the bitcoin block chain like nmc?
That commit pretty much leaves the way open and says yes go ahead and do it
(I raised an issue on git requesting the commit to be removed due to it being deceptive and not stating the truth behind the reason it exists, but obviously that's not the normal channel to do it that way)

I don't see the problem with it, both chains benefit from the increased security, and if btc really does take off I don't see most transactions happening through the blockchain anyway so I'm not concerned about the bloat.
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October 24, 2011, 02:37:04 AM
 #25

I just wanted to issue another big fat warning: do not invest in alternate cryptocurrencies or you will lose money!

A fundamental aspect of Bitcoin is that there is a limited amount of currency.

Any alternate currency that tries to copy this "finite supply" principle is doomed, no matter what technical advantages are claimed by the creators of these currencies.

It is like saying that you are a monotheist, but you also want to believe in another God than the pre-existing one, because the new God looks better.



No, this is not true. Both gold and silver exist in a limited supply on the planet Earth, and both can serve as money. There is no reason why any number of finite supply *coin block chains can not simultaneously exist.
Etlase2
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October 25, 2011, 11:26:47 AM
 #26

No, this is not true. Both gold and silver exist in a limited supply on the planet Earth, and both can serve as money. There is no reason why any number of finite supply *coin block chains can not simultaneously exist.

This is definitely true, but since there is no basis for any of them besides demand, if demand is significantly split between, they all do lose value. At this point, bitcoin obviously has the most to lose, but it will also be very hard to break in to that market because of its existing popularity.

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October 25, 2011, 11:29:40 AM
 #27

I smell fear in OP.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 25, 2011, 01:53:14 PM
 #28

No, this is not true. Both gold and silver exist in a limited supply on the planet Earth, and both can serve as money. There is no reason why any number of finite supply *coin block chains can not simultaneously exist.

By that logic there is no reason why all matter can't be currency.  Lots of rarer harder to extract materials than gold or silver.

So just as you can have:
Bitcoin
ScamCoin
CrapCoin
JunkCoin
StupidCoin
MyGodArePeopleFallingForItCoin

You can also have:
Gold Coins
Silver Coins
Platnum Coins
Palladium Coins
Helium Coins (He3)
Xenon Coins (Xe126)
....
287 other coins (even excluding radioactive isotopes)
...
Carbon Coins

However just like with Gold it is likely one currency will remain the most desirable and retain the most value/utility.  People are crazy if they think in the future some merchant is going to accept 498439048239403849023 different coins. Hell getting them to accept Bitcoin is difficult (just like getting a merchant to take a Gold coin).  Expecting them to accept ScamCoin or Xenon Coins is just naive.
DeathAndTaxes
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October 25, 2011, 02:31:21 PM
 #29

By that logic there is no reason why all matter can't be currency.  Lots of rarer harder to extract materials than gold or silver.

Nope you're wrong.  The matter that is usable has to have certain properties to be useful as a currency and that rules out a lot of matter.

Imprecise language.  Maybe not every type of matter but there are dozens of rare stable istopes which could be used as currency.  Gold just happens to be the most popular.

Quote
As to your later statement that I accidentally clipped out, your right a merchant won't want to deal with umpteen million different currencies BUT in the age of digital currency these could all be auto-swapped behind the scenes via a merchant system like bit-pay (once they add support), where as the customer can used their preferred coin, the merchant can use their preferred coin and the magic transactions to convert are contained in the merchant system so that prices, conversion rates and the resulting values are all reported correctly.  Services like these will allow a very large number of coins to exist side by side.

Why?  Today the same could be done with digital fiat currencies and forex accounts, over 200 different currencies are traded.  Yet 99% of merchants don't accept 200+ fiat currencies. We could mint material coins in dozens of rare stable istopes but we don't.  There is no market demand for Xenon or Technetium for example.

You can hide away the fact that all crypto-currencies are equal but they aren't. There is risk in accepting an alternate to the mainstream.  "Auto-swapped" isn't instantaneous, guaranteed, or without risk.  The exchange will require sufficient liquidity and the larger the merchant the less likely an exchange can support them without price volatility.  To hedge merchants would need to increase prices in alternate currencies (to ensure that they will get all of that currencies traded @ rate quoted or better).  That reduces the utility of an alternate. 

Much like gold and silver has gained 99% of precious metal market a single or few crypto-currencies will gain dominance.  Once one currency is "good enough" there is no real interest or demand by merchants to adopt another.
The value/utility of doing that doesn't warrant the cost/risk/complexity.  You can pretend instant conversions have no cost but they do. 
ElectricMucus
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October 25, 2011, 02:41:34 PM
 #30

Much to loose DeathAndTaxes?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
BitterTea
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October 25, 2011, 03:45:27 PM
 #31

Even less likely as that requires 3 entire block chains to be used.  Each block chain remains less secure because it has only a fraction of total hashing power that could be used to secure a single chain

Not with merged mining. There could be many different block chains each tied together with merged mining, and each with different properties making them useful for different things. Why are you arguing so hard against the possibility of alternate chains complementing Bitcoin (or whatever the most widely used block chain ends up being)?
Ten98
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October 25, 2011, 03:45:33 PM
 #32

No, this is not true. Both gold and silver exist in a limited supply on the planet Earth, and both can serve as money. There is no reason why any number of finite supply *coin block chains can not simultaneously exist.

By that logic there is no reason why all matter can't be currency.  Lots of rarer harder to extract materials than gold or silver.

So just as you can have:
Bitcoin
ScamCoin
CrapCoin
JunkCoin
StupidCoin
MyGodArePeopleFallingForItCoin

You can also have:
Gold Coins
Silver Coins
Platnum Coins
Palladium Coins
Helium Coins (He3)
Xenon Coins (Xe126)
....
287 other coins (even excluding radioactive isotopes)
...
Carbon Coins

However just like with Gold it is likely one currency will remain the most desirable and retain the most value/utility.  People are crazy if they think in the future some merchant is going to accept 498439048239403849023 different coins. Hell getting them to accept Bitcoin is difficult (just like getting a merchant to take a Gold coin).  Expecting them to accept ScamCoin or Xenon Coins is just naive.

You give merchants very little credit.

Many companies are already multi-nationals operating in multiple currencies, a lot of tourist shops in Europe and even some in the USA accept Euros, Dollars, Pounds + other local currencies. Multi-currency Cash registers are relatively commonplace in airports and accross continental Europe. Most people "get" the concept of multiple currencies and exchange rates and have no problem at all adopting them.

I agree that accepting CryptoCurrency *at all* is a big jump to make for an online retailer, and an even bigger jump for a bricks-and-mortar shop, but once one is in, all can be in.

Back before Fiat, Gold & Silver were two separate metals being widely used worldwide as currency, with various other metals trading around the periphery, Copper, Lead, Tin etc. so I think at the very least there is room for 2 "metals" in the market place, probably more.
It's wrong to say any physical matter can be used as a currency, a coin made from sodium or sulphur would be ridiculously impractical and last about an hour.

Gold and Silver have a number of unique properties which make them perfect for use as currency. A few other metals such as Platinum and Palladium also fit the bill, but realistically you are looking at maybe 8 or 10 metals that could realistically be used as currency.
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October 25, 2011, 04:03:38 PM
 #33


Back before Fiat, Gold & Silver were two separate metals being widely used worldwide as currency, with various other metals trading around the periphery, Copper, Lead, Tin etc. so I think at the very least there is room for 2 "metals" in the market place, probably more.
It's wrong to say any physical matter can be used as a currency, a coin made from sodium or sulphur would be ridiculously impractical and last about an hour.

Gold and Silver have a number of unique properties which make them perfect for use as currency. A few other metals such as Platinum and Palladium also fit the bill, but realistically you are looking at maybe 8 or 10 metals that could realistically be used as currency.


Fiat currencies made of various materials predated using gold & siver as currencies. L2readhistory! Smiley

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BitterTea
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October 25, 2011, 04:21:23 PM
 #34

Fiat currencies made of various materials predated using gold & siver as currencies. L2readhistory! Smiley

Fiat currency as in money with value only through the use of government force? Such as?
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