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Author Topic: Liberty Dollar Creator Convicted in Federal Court  (Read 4628 times)
benjamindees
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March 26, 2011, 05:37:08 AM
 #21

This is not "off topic" by any stretch of the imagination.

When private banks print their own money, backed by nothing but accounting fraud, and that money ultimately fails, they get bailed out by taxpayers.

When a US citizen creates money, in the form of physical precious metals, and that money becomes successful, he gets prosecuted.

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trentzb
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March 26, 2011, 06:04:14 AM
 #22

When a US citizen creates money, in the form of physical precious metals, and that money becomes successful, he gets prosecuted.
Keyword(s): US citizen
deadlizard
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March 26, 2011, 06:04:55 AM
 #23

This is not "off topic" by any stretch of the imagination.

When private banks print their own money, backed by nothing but accounting fraud, and that money ultimately fails, they get bailed out by taxpayers.

When a US citizen creates money, in the form of physical precious metals, and that money becomes successful, he gets prosecuted.
Keep in mind the gov had no problem with his notes. But the coins bear a close resemblance to US money

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benjamindees
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March 26, 2011, 08:43:17 AM
 #24

Keep in mind the gov had no problem with his notes. But the coins bear a close resemblance to US money

Of course they had no problem with his notes.  His notes were just fraudulent fractional reserve banking bullshit just like that sponsored by the US government.  It's a competing currency to theirs.  The US Treasury would be delighted to see NORFED rip people off and destroy their own credibility.  And they looked sort of like Federal Reserve Notes too so you would think if they were interested in counterfeiting they would go after them as well, right?  No, counterfeiting isn't the reason.

Besides, there's no legal difference between notes and coins.  Notes are just coins made of carbon instead of metal.  If coining money and passing it off as currency is illegal, then printing notes and passing it off as currency is illegal as well and Ben Bernanke should be in jail next to this guy.  Anything less is selective prosecution.

They went after coins because the coins were a threat.  The coins actually went up in value.  The coins created value because they couldn't be inflated.  The coins actually took valuable physical capital out of the control of the US "democracy" and placed it back in the control of individual Americans:

Quote
“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.

That's it right there.  According to Miss Tompkins and half the airheads in the fucking US judiciary, we live in a "democracy" where the majority can steal from the minority at any time through monetary fraud and outright theft.  And competing currencies, even those that aren't backed by any type of force or fraud or even anything whatsoever, are such a huge threat to that racket that they must be labeled "domestic terrorism".

Remember that Greenspan marveled over and over again at how the US economy was just so magnificently efficient that we could build this giant inverted pyramid on such a tiny amount of resources.  The banks are all leveraged at 100:1.  They created trillions of dollars of fictional paper money derivatives from the value of those resources and traded it between themselves over and over again, collecting a fee each time until they owned everything, on paper.  But it's all just a fractional reserve load of crap.  So when someone starts dismantling some of the resources at the base of that pyramid and distributing them out to individuals, you had better believe the result is going to be exactly this:  a fucking hammer coming down.

And of course in reality the US doesn't have a "democratic form of government".  The Constitution specifically guarantees a Republican form of government, along with only gold and silver money.  But this stupid cunt, along with the [edited by mod:nefario: please watch your bad language, a little is ok but don't go overboard.], probably never even read the Constitution on the way to pulling their fucking law degrees out of Cracker Jack boxes.  I'm just shocked that somehow they managed to find twelve Cheeto-encrusted retards with such little self-respect as to go along with this monkey trial.

Read their entire press release.  It's important to understand the motivations of terrorists.  And more often than not, they are happy to tell you.  Bin Laden told us exactly why he was waging war against the US.  It wasn't for the reasons the media or GWB said -- Bin Laden didn't "hate our freedoms", he hated the fact that we were occupying half the middle east.

So don't be distracted by the journalistic bullshit.  These people are telling us exactly why they are waging war on Americans' right to real money.  Read their entire press release.  It isn't because they are afraid of counterfeiting.  It's because they're afraid of competition:

Quote
For Immediate Release
March 18, 2011    United States Attorney's Office
Western District of North Carolina
Contact: (704) 344-6222

Defendant Convicted of Minting His Own Currency

STATESVILLE, NC—Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted today by a federal jury of making, possessing, and selling his own coins, announced Anne M. Tompkins, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina. Following an eight-day trial and less than two hours of deliberation, von NotHaus, the founder and monetary architect of a currency known as the Liberty Dollar, was found guilty by a jury in Statesville, North Carolina, of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling, and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States. The guilty verdict concluded an investigation which began in 2005 and involved the minting of Liberty Dollar coins with a current value of approximately $7 million. Joining the U.S. Attorney Anne M. Tompkins in making today’s announcement are Edward J. Montooth, Acting Special Agent in Charge of the FBI, Charlotte Division; Russell F. Nelson, Special Agent in Charge of the United States Secret Service, Charlotte Division; and Sheriff Van Duncan of the Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office.

According to the evidence introduced during the trial, von NotHaus was the founder of an organization called the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code, commonly known as NORFED and also known as Liberty Services. Von NotHaus was the president of NORFED and the executive director of Liberty Dollar Services, Inc. until on or about September 30, 2008.

Von NotHaus designed the Liberty Dollar currency in 1998 and the Liberty coins were marked with the dollar sign ($); the words dollar, USA, Liberty, Trust in God (instead of In God We Trust); and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coinage. Since 1998, NORFED has been issuing, disseminating, and placing into circulation the Liberty Dollar in all its forms throughout the United States and Puerto Rico. NORFED’s purpose was to mix Liberty Dollars into the current money of the United States. NORFED intended for the Liberty Dollar to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with, United States currency.

In coordination with the Department of Justice, on September 14, 2006, the United States Mint issued a press release and warning to American citizens that the Liberty Dollar was “not legal tender.” The U.S. Mint press release and public service announcement stated that the Department of Justice had determined that the use of Liberty Dollars as circulating money was a federal crime.

Article I, section 8, clause 5 of the United States Constitution delegates to Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. This power was delegated to Congress in order to establish and preserve a uniform standard of value and to insure a singular monetary system for all purchases and debts in the United States, public and private. Along with the power to coin money, Congress has the concurrent power to restrain the circulation of money which is not issued under its own authority in order to protect and preserve the constitutional currency for the benefit of all citizens of the nation. It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.

Von NotHaus, who remains free on bond, faces a sentence of up to 15 years’ imprisonment on count two of the indictment and a fine of not more than $250,000. Von NotHaus faces a prison sentence of five years and fines of $250,000 on both counts one and three. In addition, the United States is seeking the forfeiture of approximately 16,000 pounds of Liberty Dollar coins and precious metals, currently valued at nearly $7 million. The forfeiture trial, which began today before United States District Court Judge Richard Voorhees, will resume on April 4, 2011 in the federal courthouse in Statesville. Judge Voorhees has not yet set a date for the sentencing of von NotHaus.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she added. “We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.”

The case was investigated by the FBI, Buncombe County Sheriff’s Department, and the U.S. Secret Service, in cooperation with and invaluable assistance of the United States Mint. The case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Jill Westmoreland Rose and Craig D. Randall, and the forfeiture trial is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Tom Ascik and Ben Bain Creed.

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deadlizard
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March 26, 2011, 08:58:25 AM
 #25

Of course they had no problem with his notes.  His notes were just fraudulent fractional reserve banking bullshit just like that sponsored by the US government. 
tl;dr, His notes where 100% backed by the bullion coins. they where not fraudulent or fractional.

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benjamindees
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March 26, 2011, 09:07:08 AM
 #26

tl;dr, His notes where 100% backed by the bullion coins. they where not fraudulent or fractional.

Well whether they were fractional or not is anyone's guess but they aren't exactly redeemable now are they?

Any idiot who bought those things should have seen this coming.  I did.

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March 31, 2011, 06:28:11 AM
 #27

Does bitcoin look like the US dollar to you?

Id like to see them try that argument in court  Cheesy

Mr State Prosecutor, I bought these bitcoins under the impression that they were backed by US dollars, since I used real dollars in paypal to pay for them.  Then I find out that these bitcoins are mathematical digital figments, with no bearing to reality, and are backed by nothing!  Please, sir, could you lock up these evil deceitful scammers who tricked me into a ponzi scheme!

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 31, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
 #28

Does bitcoin look like the US dollar to you?

Id like to see them try that argument in court  Cheesy

Mr State Prosecutor, I bought these bitcoins under the impression that they were backed by US dollars, since I used real dollars in paypal to pay for them.  Then I find out that these bitcoins are mathematical digital figments, with no bearing to reality, and are backed by nothing!  Please, sir, could you lock up these evil deceitful scammers who tricked me into a ponzi scheme!

Sadly I could see someone trying that argument.  Maybe even working. I'm not sure how you target "bitcoins" for punishment other than making them illegal in the US.

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March 31, 2011, 12:43:12 PM
 #29

Sorry I have not read this whole thread, nor do I know the complete story, but to me it is quite clear that the guy made a fondamental mistake in putting the word "dollar" in the name of his currency.
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 31, 2011, 01:17:53 PM
 #30

Sorry I have not read this whole thread, nor do I know the complete story, but to me it is quite clear that the guy made a fondamental mistake in putting the word "dollar" in the name of his currency.


I think he made a lot of mistakes and they are similar to USD, I'm sure that helped with sales but it wasn't worth it obviously.

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Stephen Gornick
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April 03, 2011, 04:02:06 PM
 #31

Peter Schiff interviewed Bernard Von NotHaus on his show Friday:

 - http://bit.ly/e4GIED (expires after a few days, afterwards visit http://www.schiffradio.com )
 - Schiff's Youtube followup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XWAZfAOwHk

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July 22, 2011, 08:41:46 PM
 #32

COINWeek interviewed Bernard von Nothaus and will be publishing their interview soon.

An excerpt on video is here:
 - http://www.coinweek.com/news/people-in-the-news/status-of-the-liberty-dollar-with-bernard-von-nothaus/



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July 23, 2011, 04:27:35 PM
 #33

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Today, in the face of possibly the greatest economic catastrophe in the history of the world, Americans are beginning to show an aptitude for independence. We are becoming unpredictable, and this frightens government.

Heh. Cheesy

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July 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
 #34

(...) present danger to the economic stability of this country.(...)

Saying this 10 days before the day US will probably default (even if not default now, the "solution" is to increase debt, so will default soon either way) is a joke. What "stability" is she talking about then?!
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