Liberty Dollar Creator Convicted in Federal Court

[torbank]

Bernard von NotHaus was convicted Friday at the conclusion of an eight-day trial in U.S. District Court in Statesville. The jury deliberated less than two hours, according to the Department of Justice.

Charges remain pending against William Kevin Innes, an Asheville man who authorities said recruited merchants in Western North Carolina willing to accept the “barter” currency, according to court records. Innes was indicted along with von NotHaus in 2009.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110319/NEWS01/110319006/1001/news/Liberty-Dollar-fake-currency-creator-convicted-federal-court

Ludicrous. This does not bode well for BitCoin.

[casascius]

Ludicrous. This does not bode well for BitCoin.

Why not?  It seems a major design goal for Bitcoin was to resist being shut down.  Seems to me, crap like this is exactly why Bitcoin was invented.

I wonder if there's any individual (besides Ben Bernanke) who can honestly admit they were "defrauded" by Liberty Dollars as the fraud charges (as listed in the article) suggest.

[brocktice]

Anne Tompkins needs to find a dictionary and look up 'terrorism'. Printing money, allegedly counterfeit or not, is not terrorism.

[torbank]

Ludicrous. This does not bode well for BitCoin.

Why not?  It seems a major design goal for Bitcoin was to resist being shut down.  Seems to me, crap like this is exactly why Bitcoin was invented.

Just the fact that they are playing the "terrorism" card for this kind of thing.

[kiba]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why you need kitty activism.  

[Anonymous]

Does bitcoin look like the US dollar to you?

Id like to see them try that argument in court 

[dwdollar]

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country."

Haha...  I think she's been reading too much Tom Clancy.

Unless she's using court rulings on free speech as precedent.

Either way she's a Joker.

[kiba]

Haha...  I think she's been reading too much Tom Clancy.

Let see if she make the argument that a bunch of kitty picture posting bitcoiners is clear and present danger to the economic stability of the United States.

[左]

Anne Tompkins needs to find a dictionary and look up 'terrorism'. Printing money, allegedly counterfeit or not, is not terrorism.

As mentioned in the other thread on the topic, terrorism means whatever those in power want it to mean. It's why I always say, those not in power should resist using the term, and call out those who do use the term. If you automatically assume that anyone who uses the term is speaking crap, until demonstrated otherwise, you can resist the propaganda of the powerful.

On the actually topic, the person was just asking for trouble. Minting coins which are very similar to actual USA coins was always going to cause a hassle for them. They should have had a long talk with a lawyer before they went ahead with the enterprise. (And that's what it was, a business.)

[Distribution]

Anne Tompkins needs to find a dictionary and look up 'terrorism'. Printing money, allegedly counterfeit or not, is not terrorism.

As mentioned in the other thread on the topic, terrorism means whatever those in power want it to mean. It's why I always say, those not in power should resist using the term, and call out those who do use the term. If you automatically assume that anyone who uses the term is speaking crap, until demonstrated otherwise, you can resist the propaganda of the powerful.

On the actually topic, the person was just asking for trouble. Minting coins which are very similar to actual USA coins was always going to cause a hassle for them. They should have had a long talk with a lawyer before they went ahead with the enterprise. (And that's what it was, a business.)

Terrorism? That's easy: "HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.—The term ‘homegrown terrorism’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xml#toc-HF8673BDF18F64AE893B85D797135EDFD

Using force OR violence (meaning they're two different things) to coerce the government into adopting sound money is terrorism. By using Bitcoin and trying to persuade retailers to accept it, you're a terrorist. By threatening to live a month solely on Bitcoin and reneging on your pledge of allegiance to the Ben Bernanke, you're a terrorist.

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

Yeah, reading that it does seem like it won't be long before BitCoin is called terrorist money.
The shitty thing is a lot of people will believe it.

[CryptikEnigma]

Seen this on infowars earlier today. 'Domestic Terrorism' LMAO Give me a break. Competing currencies is actually a wonderful idea. Like the old saying goes "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". And with the state of the dollar right now that statement is truer than ever when it comes to currency.

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

Seen this on infowars earlier today. 'Domestic Terrorism' LMAO Give me a break. Competing currencies is actually a wonderful idea. Like the old saying goes "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". And with the state of the dollar right now that statement is truer than ever when it comes to currency.

Yeah it's good for us to diversify but not the state haha, of course they don't want it.
The USD is worth what people think it's worth.

[goldmongler]

nothing new here. look up what happened to all the e-gold/buillion exchangers in the US back in the 90s they are all still in jail. there's a reason why nobody exchanges e-currencies in the US

find me an American based liberty reserve exchanger and i'll give you eleventy billion internets

[Char-Lez Braden]

The USD is worth what people think it's worth.

Is Bitcoin any different?

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

The USD is worth what people think it's worth.

Is Bitcoin any different?

Nope, wasn't trying to imply that.
Pretty much everything in the world is worth what someone else would pay for it.

Let's not try to bring the things you can't put a price on like "love" or whatever.

[CryptikEnigma]

Seen this on infowars earlier today. 'Domestic Terrorism' LMAO Give me a break. Competing currencies is actually a wonderful idea. Like the old saying goes "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". And with the state of the dollar right now that statement is truer than ever when it comes to currency.

Yeah it's good for us to diversify but not the state haha, of course they don't want it.
The USD is worth what people think it's worth.

Exactly, and the world doesn't think too highly of the Dollar right now. I remember Timothy Geithner was giving a speech to some Chinese students, and when he said the dollar is strong, they all burst out laughing.

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

Seen this on infowars earlier today. 'Domestic Terrorism' LMAO Give me a break. Competing currencies is actually a wonderful idea. Like the old saying goes "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". And with the state of the dollar right now that statement is truer than ever when it comes to currency.

Yeah it's good for us to diversify but not the state haha, of course they don't want it.
The USD is worth what people think it's worth.

Exactly, and the world doesn't think too highly of the Dollar right now. I remember Timothy Geithner was giving a speech to some Chinese students, and when he said the dollar is strong, they all burst out laughing.

Yeah that's funny as hell, the dollar might not be strong but what's backing the dollar is.
Obviously not gold but the U.S. military.

[Distribution]

Yeah that's funny as hell, the dollar might not be strong but what's backing the dollar is.
Obviously not gold but the U.S. military.

So where can I redeem my FRNs for air strikes?

[Stephen Gornick]

There was a guest post on ZeroHedge:

Thoughts On The Liberty Dollar Debacle

Today, in the face of possibly the greatest economic catastrophe in the history of the world, Americans are beginning to show an aptitude for independence. We are becoming unpredictable, and this frightens government.

They are moving to call us terrorists, because they truly are terrified of alternative market systems. They have tipped their hand. Which means, we must keep doing exactly what we are already doing.

  - http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-thoughts-liberty-dollar-debacle

And a quite interesting comment in response:

by TraderTimm
on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 19:31
#1101593

May I suggest bitcoin?

http://www.bitcoin.org/

Advantages:

• Encrypted transactions
• Peer-to-Peer Robustness
• Incentive for 'miners' to process transactions and raise the complexity level where organized attack is prohibitive. (Using botnets, etc..)
• Route around Central Bank, Federal Reserve, Political Policy bungling
• No arbitrary limits or 'minimums' - divisible to fractions if necessary
• Geometric curve which limits total 'minted' - limit to be hit in about 130 years at current rate
• Transparency via the blockchain for transactions to be verified
• One-way transactions - you cannot spend bitcoins again and again (nor can you 'print' them by any means)

That about covers it. I hold a small amount of bitcoins and that is the extent of my involvement.

Route around manipulated fiat currency like a defective node on the internet.

Other links:

Charts - http://mtgox.com/trade/history (click 'last' or 'all time')

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/

Don't like the federal reserve?

Don't like central banks?

Do something about it.

Cheers.

 - http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-thoughts-liberty-dollar-debacle#comment-1101593