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cbeast
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October 04, 2011, 10:17:43 AM
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I wonder if something couldn't be organized where communities could get together and trade their unused stuff for bitcoin or barter instead of cash. If simpler ways of trading bitcoin like what Casascius is working on can be setup, people might use bitcoin for small trades. Even better, just convince someone to trade their stuff that they don't want anymore for bitcoin.

There have already been discussions about pawn shops using bitcoin.

Maybe the growing demonstrations in cities all over the world can be introduced to bitcoin by donating food through bitcoin if pizza shops and others will accept bitcoin.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 04, 2011, 11:17:19 AM
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I agree.. and I think we need to encourage local bitcoin user-groups more.  (It seems local linux geek groups form all over the place - why not bitcoin?)
Aside from a venue for bitcoiners to face to face trade bitcoin to/from local currency - they could select a pizza(or whatever) joint or two  that a few of them will buy from - and offer to set up bitcoin merchant facilities without labour charge.. just to help kickstart things.


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October 04, 2011, 11:50:36 AM
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http://tampa.craigslist.org

Search: Bitcoin

Results:
Sep 29 - Coin Operated Stainless Steel Car Vacuums (5) Accepting BitCoin - $300 (South Tampa (by IKEA)) barter pic
Sep 21 - Gortex Jacket DCU Desert Combat Uniform - $40 (Dale Mabry) clothing & accessories pic
Sep 21 - BDU's Woodland Camouflage - $10 (Dale Mabry) clothing & accessories pic
Sep 19 - Bitcoin Miners - $3000 (Clearwater) computers & tech
Sep 18 - Microwave w/ Rotating Plate, White // Sunbeam - $20 (Element Highrise (Downtown Tampa)) household items pic
Sep 17 - ***********FREE BELT! Saturday only********************************** - (Tarpon Springs) clothing & accessories pic
Sep 15 - DCU Desert Combat Uniforms - $10 (Dale Mabry) clothing & accessories pic
Sep 15 - SOLID Wood Coffee Table // Antique, no fake wood! - $50 (Element Building (Downtown Tampa)) furniture - by owner pic
Sep 15 - Black Leather Gaming Chair w/ Huge Bass and Orange Stiching - $50 (Element Building (Downtown Tampa)) furniture - by owner pic

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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October 04, 2011, 12:25:38 PM
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Local communities don't have bitcoins - it's all stashed away by the intrepid Smeagols hopping to strike it big. So for the average consumer trading in bitcoins means first exchanging money for bitcoins, a completely futile undertaking. You have something specifically designed for trade accepted by everyone and highly portable; why exchange it for computer money that fluctuate by 10% from one hour to the next ? Unnecessary risk and hassle.

For cryptocurrency to displace govt. fiat it must first infiltrate the niches that fiat covers badly, or not at all. It must enable trade that is not otherwise possible or profitable. When enough people use the currency and earn an income in bitcoins, a network effect could take hold that is sufficiently strong to displace fiat in other areas too. Expecting people to use bitcoins today for retail purchases is even more far fetched then expecting them to use Botswanan Pulas. There's no point.
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October 04, 2011, 12:41:38 PM
 #5

Local communities don't have bitcoins - it's all stashed away by the intrepid Smeagols hopping to strike it big.

It's well known that groups behave differently to individuals. I think a local user group of intrepid Smeagols could be a great way to get some specific merchants into bitcoin.
The problem at the moment is that in any one city - bitcoin users are sparse.  If they come together for meetings every month, they could easily provide enough of an incentive for a computer shop and/or pizza joint to get involved. 
It's that sort of thing that could snowball.



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October 05, 2011, 12:56:20 AM
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Local communities don't have bitcoins - it's all stashed away by the intrepid Smeagols hopping to strike it big.

It's well known that groups behave differently to individuals. I think a local user group of intrepid Smeagols could be a great way to get some specific merchants into bitcoin.
The problem at the moment is that in any one city - bitcoin users are sparse.  If they come together for meetings every month, they could easily provide enough of an incentive for a computer shop and/or pizza joint to get involved. 
It's that sort of thing that could snowball.

I've been thinking the very same thing.

Anyone in the San Antonio or Austin area interested in getting together on a regular basis?

Still around.
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October 05, 2011, 01:16:29 AM
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Bitcoin would make for a great local currency.

If local people all accept Bitcoins, then they will tend to spend it locally. This would encourage people spending on local businesses helping the community to grow.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
tvbcof
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October 05, 2011, 01:26:17 AM
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Local communities don't have bitcoins - it's all stashed away by the intrepid Smeagols hopping to strike it big. So for the average consumer trading in bitcoins means first exchanging money for bitcoins, a completely futile undertaking.

Huh?  If intrepid Smeagols (like me) didn't control more than a few BTC they would somehow pour down on communities in some afternoon rain shower?  Your statement makes no sense that I can see.  Anyone who wants BTC has to go to an exchange no matter what the exchange rate (unless CPU mining is rammed back into the system, and even then you get to distribute, what, 7200 BTC per day...for a while...among everyone?)  That, or have a desired item or skill that they can sell and be canny enough to avoid being ripped off by the Bitcoin community where shysters are, in my opinion, over-represented at this time.

You have something specifically designed for trade accepted by everyone and highly portable; why exchange it for computer money that fluctuate by 10% from one hour to the next ? Unnecessary risk and hassle.

For cryptocurrency to displace govt. fiat it must first infiltrate the niches that fiat covers badly, or not at all. It must enable trade that is not otherwise possible or profitable. When enough people use the currency and earn an income in bitcoins, a network effect could take hold that is sufficiently strong to displace fiat in other areas too. Expecting people to use bitcoins today for retail purchases is even more far fetched then expecting them to use Botswanan Pulas. There's no point.

I'd be happy to spend BTC instead of USD.  The trouble is that last time I tried most of the merchants seemed to think that they could capitalize on people's desire to 'support the community' and gouge the shit out of customers.

Some niches that USD covers badly are savings due to devaluation, and anonymous funding...particularly of organizations which are out of favor by the powers that be.  I use BTC for both.  Sue me (or better yet, offer something I want for a semi-competitive price.)

$5/BTC is amazingly low in my opinion give the currency base, the population of earth, the troubles with most of our currencies, the apparent robustness of the Bitcoin solution, and the likelihood that there will be at least some uses for BTC as long as the network remains in tact.  Happy days as far as I am concerned.  I'm not even sure that Bitcoin's primary usefulness is in exchange for trinkets.  I'll wait for a while before coming to a conclusion about that.

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October 05, 2011, 09:13:57 AM
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Local communities don't have bitcoins - it's all stashed away by the intrepid Smeagols hopping to strike it big. So for the average consumer trading in bitcoins means first exchanging money for bitcoins, a completely futile undertaking.

Huh?  If intrepid Smeagols (like me) didn't control more than a few BTC they would somehow pour down on communities in some afternoon rain shower?  Your statement makes no sense that I can see.

Let's try a bit harder then. If Smeagols have at most a few BTC they are no longer Smeagols - the 7 millions or so coins are distributed to over a million people. Collectively they make up a large community and the network effect is strong enough to enable trade within it. If a few hundred Smeagols hold the bulk of the money supply and a few thousand others the rest, and they expect millions of people to come and buy it from them, that's not a currency, that's pump and dump.


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Some niches that USD covers badly are savings due to devaluation,

Fabulous plan sir, the pensioners should invest all their wealth in shady internet money.

Quote
and anonymous funding...particularly of organizations which are out of favor by the powers that be.  

Bingo ! Yes, that's a role that bitcoins can fulfil nicely. It can be a good currency for online criminals. Good for e-shopping in markets where there's low penetration of credit cards. Good for inventory with high chargeback rates. Good for narcotics also. Good for opting out on taxes - and that's not even immoral in most of Europe, it's survival.
Those who don't like to be associated with some of those actions shouldn't mess with cryptocurrency.

Quote
$5/BTC is amazingly low in my opinion give the currency base, the population of earth, the troubles with most of our currencies, the apparent robustness of the Bitcoin solution

Here we go with the self-righteous pump and dump scam. Sure, every person in the world deserves a few satoshis  of his own, but not before they make me rich beyond my wildest dreams. I am a Bitcoin aristocrat. I had the foresight to invest in the currency of the future, so I own a sizeable portion of the known world. I'll pick Hawaii, thank you.
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October 05, 2011, 04:56:09 PM
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Some niches that USD covers badly are savings due to devaluation,

Fabulous plan sir, the pensioners should invest all their wealth in shady internet money.

Your strawman, not mine.

and anonymous funding...particularly of organizations which are out of favor by the powers that be.  

Bingo ! Yes, that's a role that bitcoins can fulfil nicely. It can be a good currency for online criminals. Good for e-shopping in markets where there's low penetration of credit cards. Good for inventory with high chargeback rates. Good for narcotics also. Good for opting out on taxes - and that's not even immoral in most of Europe, it's survival.
Those who don't like to be associated with some of those actions shouldn't mess with cryptocurrency.

The point is rather a tired one, but these things are actually better served by hard currency.

$5/BTC is amazingly low in my opinion give the currency base, the population of earth, the troubles with most of our currencies, the apparent robustness of the Bitcoin solution

Here we go with the self-righteous pump and dump scam. Sure, every person in the world deserves a few satoshis  of his own, but not before they make me rich beyond my wildest dreams. I am a Bitcoin aristocrat. I had the foresight to invest in the currency of the future, so I own a sizeable portion of the known world. I'll pick Hawaii, thank you.

I actually am a little bit 'self-righteous' here.  Because the network is supported by the participants (or plebes), I believe that they will ultimately hold the trump card and thus be able to enforce a measure of fairness on the capital holders (if the system or something like it goes.)  I'd be interested to find out if my thought patterns would remain the same if someday I'm a capital holder in such a system.  And I consider it to be a very low order probability that this will ever occur.  IOW, I expect to lose any money I put into Bitcoin if I've not given it away first.


cbeast
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October 05, 2011, 11:51:42 PM
 #11

Some niches that USD covers badly are savings due to devaluation,

Fabulous plan sir, the pensioners should invest all their wealth in shady internet money.

Your strawman, not mine.

and anonymous funding...particularly of organizations which are out of favor by the powers that be.  

Bingo ! Yes, that's a role that bitcoins can fulfil nicely. It can be a good currency for online criminals. Good for e-shopping in markets where there's low penetration of credit cards. Good for inventory with high chargeback rates. Good for narcotics also. Good for opting out on taxes - and that's not even immoral in most of Europe, it's survival.
Those who don't like to be associated with some of those actions shouldn't mess with cryptocurrency.

The point is rather a tired one, but these things are actually better served by hard currency.

$5/BTC is amazingly low in my opinion give the currency base, the population of earth, the troubles with most of our currencies, the apparent robustness of the Bitcoin solution

Here we go with the self-righteous pump and dump scam. Sure, every person in the world deserves a few satoshis  of his own, but not before they make me rich beyond my wildest dreams. I am a Bitcoin aristocrat. I had the foresight to invest in the currency of the future, so I own a sizeable portion of the known world. I'll pick Hawaii, thank you.

I actually am a little bit 'self-righteous' here.  Because the network is supported by the participants (or plebes), I believe that they will ultimately hold the trump card and thus be able to enforce a measure of fairness on the capital holders (if the system or something like it goes.)  I'd be interested to find out if my thought patterns would remain the same if someday I'm a capital holder in such a system.  And I consider it to be a very low order probability that this will ever occur.  IOW, I expect to lose any money I put into Bitcoin if I've not given it away first.



The bitcoin network is currently a 36 million dollar venture supported by "smeagols" and "plebes" on a global scale. Sure, there was a bubble created by some curious capitalists, but their interest faded. Who cares? When we start adding, the "dreamers" and "rebels" and  other proletariat, this global currency can grow quite substantially. The capitalists can stick with their nice safe blue chip investments and be safe in believing that empires never fall.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 06, 2011, 12:31:35 AM
 #12

If a few hundred Smeagols hold the bulk of the money supply and a few thousand others the rest, and they expect millions of people to come and buy it from them, that's not a currency, that's pump and dump.

Isn't that what it's like with Fiat money anyway?

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October 06, 2011, 12:47:50 AM
 #13

If a few hundred Smeagols hold the bulk of the money supply and a few thousand others the rest, and they expect millions of people to come and buy it from them, that's not a currency, that's pump and dump.

Isn't that what it's like with Fiat money anyway?

"Pump and Dump" is simply an observed pattern. It is not a scientific theory nor even a valid hypothesis. It's what economists, astrologers, and shamans use to promote superstitious behavior. Addressing the fact that "Smeagols" hold the bulk of the bitcoins is simply a fact that it is what they value. Whether millions of people later start to value bitcoin has nothing to do with any intentional "Pump and Dump" behavior, it is merely a matter of opinion.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 06, 2011, 01:22:18 AM
 #14

If a few hundred Smeagols hold the bulk of the money supply and a few thousand others the rest, and they expect millions of people to come and buy it from them, that's not a currency, that's pump and dump.

Isn't that what it's like with Fiat money anyway?

I could see a situation evolving where 'block chain zero' becomes something of a 'gold standard' or 'backing store' for as many other currencies as one can dream up.

People with 'block chain zero' coin could support or withdraw their support from these forked currencies as they choose.

And people who use currency can also choose which currency they choose to use.

In this way both the holders and the users of a currency would have a voice in the management of the currency and a general baseline fairness might develop.

This is all highly theoretical and highly nebulous (and highly unlikely).  But this is the 'Bitcoin revolution ideas' thread after all.

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October 06, 2011, 01:48:30 AM
 #15

If a few hundred Smeagols hold the bulk of the money supply and a few thousand others the rest, and they expect millions of people to come and buy it from them, that's not a currency, that's pump and dump.

Isn't that what it's like with Fiat money anyway?

I could see a situation evolving where 'block chain zero' becomes something of a 'gold standard' or 'backing store' for as many other currencies as one can dream up.

People with 'block chain zero' coin could support or withdraw their support from these forked currencies as they choose.

And people who use currency can also choose which currency they choose to use.

In this way both the holders and the users of a currency would have a voice in the management of the currency and a general baseline fairness might develop.

This is all highly theoretical and highly nebulous (and highly unlikely).  But this is the 'Bitcoin revolution ideas' thread after all.

I am all for forked currencies. If some central authority produces a custom chip that produces proprietary blocks they wish to issue as a fiat currency, that's just fine. If they offer a version that runs on standard bitcoin mining systems, all the better. But you are correct, Satoshi's bitcoin will always be the gold standard.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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