Is that possible : Record doesn't reach soft cap but gets listed on CMC ?

[kenzawak]

Bounty thread :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3331166.0
Ann thread :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3331502

Telegram page :
https://t.me/RECORD_Foundation

On July 6th, they posted this on their telegram page :


So they claim they haven't reached soft cap and can't pay their bounty hunters.
Yet today, they got listed on Coinmarketcap. They're also being traded on coinbene :
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/record/#markets

So I need your opinion. Is all this possible or is it that they just don't wanna pay their bounty hunters ?

EDIT : archives of the translated bounty threads proving that the rule of the hard cap was added later on during the campaign.
FRENCH : http://archive.is/rWd1b#selection-599.0-627.101
GERMAN : http://archive.fo/KlSc7#selection-563.0-583.102
INDONESIAN : http://archive.is/umpRH
RUSSIAN : http://archive.is/6vGpn
ARABIC : http://archive.is/37DjD
VIETNAMESE : http://archive.is/anBnN
BENGALI : http://archive.is/S5y3Z
CHINESE : http://archive.is/KrxT5
FILIPINO : http://archive.is/FYaMX
PORTUGUESE : http://archive.is/WXt2p

+ WEBSITE : http://archive.is/Wg42g

[Avirunes]

Check the bounty rules again. It says:

Bounty Distribution will take place after the ICO has successfully ended. (hard cap) 
If ICO does not reach the hard cap, bounty program will be cancelled 

I also haven't seen something like this. Normally a project refunds back the money to investors if softcap is not hit but it might also be possible that the project decided to continue still with whatever money collected after taking investor's consent. Thought it might also be possible that they lied about project not reaching the softcap but given the rules(if it wasn't edited now or recently) I wouldn't say it as a scam since by participating you all agreed to it.

[Kypo4ka_KG]

Curious fact: try to find in the Record telegram channel the word "softcap".

You can see that for almost 3 months no one has used this word. Namely, from April 14 to July 1! Do you think that within 3 months when ICO was going on, no one asked about the soft cap of the project? After that, I'm more than sure that the messages have been deleted by administrators. And it is likely that the soft cap was still collected, and bounty participation were simply thrown out of the train, which had already arrived at the coinmarketcap.

But God is their judge.

[kenzawak]

What I find shocking is that they have enough money to get listed on coinbene but not enough to pay the people who promoted their project.
I guess any project can claim they haven't reached soft or hard cap and not pay bounty hunters, there is really no way to check, is there ?

[rellor]

Check the bounty rules again. It says:

Bounty Distribution will take place after the ICO has successfully ended. (hard cap) 
If ICO does not reach the hard cap, bounty program will be cancelled 

I also haven't seen something like this. Normally a project refunds back the money to investors if softcap is not hit but it might also be possible that the project decided to continue still with whatever money collected after taking investor's consent. Thought it might also be possible that they lied about project not reaching the softcap but given the rules(if it wasn't edited now or recently) I wouldn't say it as a scam since by participating you all agreed to it.

this rule was added later. There wasn't this rule until bounty campaign finished

[Avirunes]

Check the bounty rules again. It says:

Bounty Distribution will take place after the ICO has successfully ended. (hard cap) 
If ICO does not reach the hard cap, bounty program will be cancelled 

I also haven't seen something like this. Normally a project refunds back the money to investors if softcap is not hit but it might also be possible that the project decided to continue still with whatever money collected after taking investor's consent. Thought it might also be possible that they lied about project not reaching the softcap but given the rules(if it wasn't edited now or recently) I wouldn't say it as a scam since by participating you all agreed to it.

this rule was added later. There wasn't this rule until bounty campaign finished

If there is any sort of evidence which proves that they changed it afterwards like in  the form of someone quoting the main post or only rules section earlier or any other proof then please add up. This will prove that they have no intention to pay the bounties which will get some DT action.

[kenzawak]

Ok, here is what I think about the whole thing.
Record has been existing for a few years already.
They wanted to be on the blockchain and in order to do so they launched a reverse ICO.
The hard cap was $15 millions. No soft cap was mentioned anywhere ever.

I checked the French translation and there was no mention of a condition to be met for payment.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3340176



The only reference to a successful ICO concerns the length of the campaign (in the 1st sentence). If I translate it back in English, basically it says :
- that the campaign will last until the 30th of June, or until the ICO is successfully completed.
- that the token distribution will happen immediately after the end of the campaign.
- that the contributions of the participants will be tracked so that they can receive tokens at the end of the campaign.
That's all.


This is from their whitepaper :


Conditions aren't clear and there is no mention of any cap. The hard cap thing was only added to the bounty thread at the end of campaign... I guess in case there would be complaints. It never says that if the ICO isn't successful (what is successful btw ?) they won't pay anything.

They got listed before the end of the ICO.
Hard cap wasn't reached and investors didn't get reimbursed. The rest of the tokens were burned. Why burn them when you can use them to pay bounty hunters ? I guess they thought the tokens would be dumped by hunters which would lower the value of the coin. Instead, by burning the tokens, you make sure the value of the coin will rise.

Apparently, they only got 4% of what they expected (the hard cap ?). That's what their telegram manager told me.

So the way I see it, those guys thought they could sell a few tokens with this reverse ico thing. They knew they would never reach a hard cap of 15 millions so they found people to promote their project for free, knowing quite well they would never have to pay them.
They made a few hundred thousand dollars, used some of it to get listed and got some people to work for them for free. Well done.

I call it a scam, an elaborate scam, but still a scam.

[Avirunes]

[....]

Great!! Seems like a confirmed scam.

According to unedited French translated version of the bounty thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3340176 (http://archive.is/rWd1b#selection-599.0-627.101) it seems like there were no rules pointing out "Bounty Distribution will take place after the ICO has successfully ended. (hard cap) . If ICO does not reach the hard cap, bounty program will be cancelled " as pointing in the original bounty thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3331166.0 (http://archive.fo/9BwGG#selection-817.0-821.68). It does seems like the rules were being added during the middle or at the end of the campaign.

Interesting part is that Official Recordfoundation who is the thread author of both Original Thread and German translated thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3391334 (http://archive.fo/KlSc7#selection-563.0-583.102) and I don't find any points related to the bounty being not processed if hard cap is not reached.

I will add a neg rating and will request others as well to point this down into their profile's feedback.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

But God is their judge.

Well you can pray if you want to, and you'll see how far that gets you. 

I tagged this guy, because this whole situation seems really shady.  If this project isn't paying its advertisers, they're probably not honest enough to be running a legitimate project.  I'd like to hear from Official Recordfoundation himself, though.

[The Cryptovator]

Listing an exchange isn't a big deal. Even they didn't reach Soft cap. But it's very bad thing they didn't paid to their promoter. Actually if a coin listed any exchange, and they have 100k daily trading volume than coinmarketcap will listed it. In that case exchange exchange should be on cmc existing list.
I guess that they are trying to sale their coin through exchange due to they can't reach soft cap. Remember one thing if a coin listed on simple exchange it doesn't mean they legit. An exchange have right to delist any coin at any time. Most important thing a strong community for a coin. But they are kick out their community such as bitcointalk. Btw they can still scam even their coin is on cmc.

[marlboroza]

http://archive.is/Wg42g archived.

I checked few other translated topics and I don't see this rule. OP please archive all translated threads.

Both CTO/CEO and lead project manager have passed KYC on icobench https://icobench.com/ico/record-foundation http://archive.is/NfnWz so you could take legal action against them.
Btw, how many tokens are in circulation? I can't find it on coinmarketcap.

[kenzawak]

OP please archive all translated threads.

Done.
I added in the op the archives of all the translated threads listed on their bounty spreadsheet.

[coinanalyst22]

Curious fact: try to find in the Record telegram channel the word "softcap".

You can see that for almost 3 months no one has used this word. Namely, from April 14 to July 1! Do you think that within 3 months when ICO was going on, no one asked about the soft cap of the project? After that, I'm more than sure that the messages have been deleted by administrators. And it is likely that the soft cap was still collected, and bounty participation was simply thrown out of the train, which had already arrived at the coinmarketcap.

But God is their judge.

Nope. You guys firmly misunderstood. I am the investor from Korea and the team is not the fraud or evil.

You should go to their ETH wallet; https://etherscan.io/address/0xc6421ac09d20597ef8cdfcc8a89255fd2e3b51e4#internaltx
It says they only collected 255 ETH from their official website. They raised some from ICO pools but it was also not big.

In the Korean community where the most of the investors come from, it is well-known fact that RECORD Foundation collected very little, far less than its softcap.
That is all about them. But they risked themselves by listing their coins on Coinbene despite the low circulation. This is the full story I bet for 100%.

[coinanalyst22]

To clarify more, Coinbene team unlikely require an expensive fee for the reverse ICO. As a reverse ICO, RECORD Foundation also able to afford the listing fee of Coinbene.

It is not a scam for 100%.

Please don't spread the rumor if you don't know much about the company. Let's be objective!

[kenzawak]

I'm fucking objective. You got people to work for you for free !
Pay them and we'll be fine.

Which rumor do you want us to spread ? That you're a shitty coin with zero value ?
Or that you're scamming people ?
It's ironic, you're a project that claims to pay a fair price to artists using your platform and yet you can't even pay a few thousand dollars to the people who worked promoting you ?

[coinanalyst22]

I'm fucking objective. You got people to work for you for free !
Pay them and we'll be fine.

Which rumor do you want us to spread ? That you're a shitty coin with zero value ?
Or that you're scamming people ?
It's ironic, you're a project that claims to pay a fair price to artists using your platform and yet you can't even pay a few thousand dollars to the people who worked promoting you ?

I read through all the threads again. I understand your sentiment more bc if i had worked for project w/o knowing its condition to reward me only when hardcap had reached, I might be very mad just like you.

You can say they treated the bounty hunters wrong if you want. Then it's not a rumor.
But if you say the project is of no value. Then is a rumor.

Not giving away bounty doesn't necessarily mean the project is no value. That's what you want to believe or argue.
Instead, it seems alright you are mad at their policy. That's the point.

FYI. I am an investor in the project, not the team. See. You should be more objective on that.

Btw, what kind of bounty work you have done with the team?

[Avirunes]

I read through all the threads again. I understand your sentiment more bc if i had worked for project w/o knowing its condition to reward me only when hardcap had reached, I might be very mad just like you.

They changed the rules in the middle or at the end without any announcement.

You can say they treated the bounty hunters wrong if you want. Then it's not a rumor.
But if you say the project is of no value. Then is a rumor.

Not giving away bounty doesn't necessarily mean the project is no value. That's what you want to believe or argue.
Instead, it seems alright you are mad at their policy. That's the point.

FYI. I am an investor in the project, not the team. See. You should be more objective on that.

Btw, what kind of bounty work you have done with the team?

Sorry but not giving away bounties does highlight their intentions to cheat. That being said they might lie and cheat other parties eg. Investors (who invest their money) just like they cheated bounty participants (who invest their time promoting).

[kenzawak]

I'm fucking objective. You got people to work for you for free !
Pay them and we'll be fine.

Which rumor do you want us to spread ? That you're a shitty coin with zero value ?
Or that you're scamming people ?
It's ironic, you're a project that claims to pay a fair price to artists using your platform and yet you can't even pay a few thousand dollars to the people who worked promoting you ?

I read through all the threads again. I understand your sentiment more bc if i had worked for project w/o knowing its condition to reward me only when hardcap had reached, I might be very mad just like you.

You can say they treated the bounty hunters wrong if you want. Then it's not a rumor.
But if you say the project is of no value. Then is a rumor.

Not giving away bounty doesn't necessarily mean the project is no value. That's what you want to believe or argue.
Instead, it seems alright you are mad at their policy. That's the point.

FYI. I am an investor in the project, not the team. See. You should be more objective on that.

Btw, what kind of bounty work you have done with the team?

I'm not saying they're a shitty coin, you did, read again.
You're not part of the team, you're an investor ? You're biased either way.

[meaamir]

I participated in their bounty, and we invested our time for promotion of record foundation and i am sure i will let them fade after scamming all bounty hunters. request to all affected people of record foundation please join me here https://t.me/realbountyhunters. This group is standing for financial protection of bounty hunters.