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Author Topic: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin  (Read 10244 times)
paraipan
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October 07, 2011, 06:54:04 PM
 #21

heh best thread i commented lately, with references that help allot. Guess i'm a mapper that tends to forget things fast Tongue

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October 07, 2011, 08:54:33 PM
 #22

The whole mappers vs. packers epistemology is about how skillfully we are able to model our world. The scientific method vs. our patter-seeking animal instincts. Packers have evolved to survive in the natural world, but the inevitable outcome of all evolution is extinction. If we don't become mappers (positivists), then we will be replaced by species that will better adapt to the environment we create.

It's clearly the mappers, like bitcoin enthusiasts, who steer the world. If the human race followed packers, we might have never left the dark ages. Or even worse, we might all be wearing those godawful cheese hats. Anyway, packers tend to be followers, because they don't have the vision or risk tolerance to lead, so I'm not too worried about it.

Maybe I'm not understanding this hypothesis. I tend to see the world leaders as mostly highly efficient predatorial packers. The few mappers in the world have to be wary of them. Mappers tend to have complex ideas and mappers tend to have loud voices proclaiming their knowledge. Try watching a creation vs evolution debate sometime. Our civilization is frequently hindered by distractions by packers with things like war and corporate sponsored sporting events.

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October 07, 2011, 09:06:22 PM
 #23

This is true. This is really difficult to sell Bitcoin to someone who don't get what money, inflation or fractional reserve is.

For those persons I think we better to only talk about the trivial stuff :
- non-reversable
- almost no fees
- no bank involved
- fast
- easy

- do not talk about mining. if you really need to, start by explaining the need to protect the network because there is no central authority...
- do not talk about the early adopters advantage. It look like the start of a pyramidal scheme.
- do not show a chart of the value BTC/USD. It looks like it's failing but it's only the fault of the speculators.

very true
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October 08, 2011, 02:48:11 AM
 #24

i see 4 classes of people when it comes to these sort of things

the intelligent
the creators
the controllers
the tools

the intelligent are the people that understand things at a low level, like how bitcoin works, and cryptography and other things. they want to know how stuff works. this would describe most people who understand bitcoin, as they love to learn about things. even if they disagree. they question everything. if you tell them to do something, they ask why and what for.

the creators make the stuff that intelligent want to understand, like bitcoin and cryptography and such. they get shit done. this describes people that made and develop bitcoin. when they fell their rights have been infringed, they fight. they also fit into the intelligent.

the controllers use the products of the above 2 classes to control the tools, mostly the 2nd class. they are people like the government and other very high level positions with a lot of authority and influence.(verisign the president, although he kinda fits as a tool too.)

the tools are the people that don't care or are too stupid or don't care about anything. they drift through limbo their entire lives not really understanding anything, controlled by the controllers. they do without asking why.

i gave only electronic examples, but there are plenty of non electronic examples.

its a sad but true reality.

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October 08, 2011, 04:39:30 AM
 #25

The whole mappers vs. packers epistemology is about how skillfully we are able to model our world. The scientific method vs. our patter-seeking animal instincts. Packers have evolved to survive in the natural world, but the inevitable outcome of all evolution is extinction. If we don't become mappers (positivists), then we will be replaced by species that will better adapt to the environment we create.

It's clearly the mappers, like bitcoin enthusiasts, who steer the world. If the human race followed packers, we might have never left the dark ages. Or even worse, we might all be wearing those godawful cheese hats. Anyway, packers tend to be followers, because they don't have the vision or risk tolerance to lead, so I'm not too worried about it.

Maybe I'm not understanding this hypothesis. I tend to see the world leaders as mostly highly efficient predatorial packers. The few mappers in the world have to be wary of them. Mappers tend to have complex ideas and mappers tend to have loud voices proclaiming their knowledge. Try watching a creation vs evolution debate sometime. Our civilization is frequently hindered by distractions by packers with things like war and corporate sponsored sporting events.

You should read some of the original programmer's stone papers.  The M0 hypothesis (if we can call it that) has a lot to say about charisma.  The Mapper/packer axis is orthogonal to the M0/immune axis, but a mapper/immune type that can see and do the M0 language is a powerful force (for good or for evil), but a packer/M0 type can be nearly as powerful, just less directed.

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October 21, 2011, 03:12:53 PM
 #26

Glad to see Jungian psychology and Myers-Briggs mentioned here. Someone mentioned a male/female dichotomy and I don't believe that is correct in relation to packer/mapper (at least not as far as it relates to Sensing/iNtuition).

Many years ago I was involved with an entheogentic plants list and due to the nature of the topic we made heavy use of cryptography and remailers. Out of curiosity and a similar thread, a huge number of us took the Myers-Briggs test and unanimously categorized ourselves Intuitive. I imagine the same would be true here among bitcoiners.

Intuition is the preferred method of perceiving the world by only about 25% of the general population. If I recall there was no strong statistical difference between men and women with respect to Sensing and Intuition. There is, however, and huge judging correlation between men and Thinking and women and Feeling.

Perhaps T/F relates to the mapper/packers in the sense that a mapper applies logic while a packer gives greater weight to their emotional response.

Cheers, from an ENTP


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October 21, 2011, 05:20:18 PM
 #27

This is all pseudoscience.

Talk page:

This isn't exactly a real psychological theory. This is just a hypothesis thought up by a computer programmer/blogger. While I think it is interesting, I don't really think it needs it's own Wikipedia page linked as a psychology stub. Maybe once some folks with PhD.'s do some experiments and actually turn it into a theory, then we can write about it here. Otherwise, I am forced to assume that this page was added to Wikipedia by the blogger himself. If this is the case, then this is improper use of Wikipedia.
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October 21, 2011, 07:04:55 PM
 #28

If you refer to Myers-Briggs as pseudo science, I will not be arguing this point with you. However, this theory helped me to understand myself and other people. I also noticed that there is disproportionally high numbers of INTP's and ENTP's among bitcoin early and not so early adopters as compared to general population (but there is no credible research known on this).

<--- Waves to fellow INTP's (ENTP's too).

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October 22, 2011, 04:23:51 AM
 #29

Genjix was referring to Packers and Mappers, not Myers-Briggs nor Jung. I'd be very curious to know (most) everyone's preferences:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

E 11%
N 88%
T 25%
P 67%

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October 22, 2011, 04:55:18 AM
 #30

Genjix was referring to Packers and Mappers, not Myers-Briggs nor Jung. I'd be very curious to know (most) everyone's preferences:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

E 11%
N 88%
T 25%
P 67%


E 11%
N 88%
T 25%
P 67%
-------
Total 191%

what do these figures mean???

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October 22, 2011, 05:03:58 AM
 #31

from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTP :

Quote
Keirsey referred to INTPs as Architects, one of the four types belonging to the temperament he called the Rationals. INTPs are one of the rarest types, accounting for about 1–5% of the population.[2][3][4]

It is my unproven (intuitive) hypothesis is that INTP proportion at least among early adopters and the second wave (those of us who joined the fry in Dec 2010-Mar 2011) is higher than 1-5%.

As for the numbers in the above post. It is result of the questionarie indicating your MB type. The percent mean how strong every given trait is (level of confidence of detection). I think lower numbers for E and T mean that you could have been less than honest answering relevant questions ,or questions suck, or less likely your personality is not falling clearly into either camp.





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adamstgBit
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October 22, 2011, 05:31:10 AM
 #32

i tested INTJ

but in collage i'm pretty sure i tested INTP

have i changed?? LOL

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October 22, 2011, 07:01:39 AM
 #33

i tested INTJ

but in collage i'm pretty sure i tested INTP

have i changed?? LOL

Exactly the opposite of my experience.

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October 22, 2011, 12:47:10 PM
 #34

E 11% N 88% T 25% P 67% ------- Total 191%

what do these figures mean???

i tested INTJ ... but in collage i'm pretty sure i tested INTP ... have i changed?? LOL

If you'd post your percentages I could tell you (though not more than the descriptive links). Each represents your own (vague) preferences on diametric scales. So in the numbers above, I'm only mildly extroverted, 11% from neutral. In the next case (Sensing/Intuition), I'm intuitive as a polar extreme (88% unbalanced Cheesy) with no sense in the world.

It's normal to change. Particularly if your preferences were not so strong (less than 50%). I could be introverted on any given day, but I'm unlikely to ever to get some sense Smiley

Try these, maybe you can relate? (Holliday, you'd likely be closer to the first)
http://typelogic.com/intj.html
http://typelogic.com/intp.html

From Wiki: TJ types tend to appear to the world as logical. ... for introverts, the J or P indicates their auxiliary function. Introverts tend to show their dominant function outwardly only in matters "important to their inner worlds." For example:

Because ENTJ types are extraverts, the J indicates that their dominant function is their preferred judging function (extraverted thinking). ENTJ types introvert their auxiliary perceiving function (introverted intuition). The tertiary function is sensing and the inferior function is introverted feeling.

Because INTJ types are introverts, the J indicates that their auxiliary function is their preferred judging function (extraverted thinking). INTJ types introvert their dominant perceiving function (introverted intuition). The tertiary function is feeling, and the inferior function is extraverted sensing.

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netrin
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October 22, 2011, 01:15:12 PM
 #35

It is my unproven (intuitive) hypothesis is that INTP proportion at least among early adopters and the second wave (those of us who joined the fry in Dec 2010-Mar 2011) is higher than 1-5%.
I wouldn't think I/E is significant, it might only indicate who talks more than who walks.

I think lower numbers for E and T mean that you could have been less than honest answering relevant questions ,or questions suck, or less likely your personality is not falling clearly into either camp.
One can be quite social but still like to get away to be alone, think, enjoy one's own company and projects.

As for T/F, it was (not) Mark Twain who once said, "for the trivial things in life, you must think them through logically, and you will live a long successful life. But for the most important decisions in your life, you must listen to your heart, and you will die happy."

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October 22, 2011, 01:24:38 PM
 #36

If you can't dazzle them with intellect, baffle them with bullshit. There is good money in pseudosciences like astrology, NLP, this nonsense. I'm not saying they are not useful, they are simply a crutch like any other religion. Instead of following pop psych, simply learn all you can and discover your own philosophy of life.

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October 22, 2011, 02:18:09 PM
 #37

ENTJ - very high.. i cant rememebr its been a while. but im very definitive to all sides.. im an odd one Wink
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October 22, 2011, 02:26:45 PM
 #38

ENTJ - very high.. i cant rememebr its been a while. but im very definitive to all sides.. im an odd one Wink
"I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?"

"I dont wany to trade my bitcoins for another currency. I have money in my pocket, if i sell my bitcoins i wont have any of those. simple."

eh, Yup. ENTJ

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October 22, 2011, 02:28:56 PM
 #39

INTJ/P

I get 50/50 on the last letter.
paraipan
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October 23, 2011, 01:45:50 AM
 #40

ENFP

Extraverted    Intuitive   Feeling   Perceiving
Strength of the preferences %

1                   75             25             33

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