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Author Topic: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin  (Read 6752 times)
FreeTrade
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October 06, 2011, 06:11:24 PM
 #1

The Mappers/Packers theory holds that there are basically two ways to think about the world.

The first, Mapping, involves creating a logical model about the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapper_orientation
- A person with mapping tendencies receives new information; facts, techniques, abilities, and undergoes a process of incorporating the new information into a personally developed and self-adaptive model of the world.

The second, Packing, relies on pattern matching. A person with this orientation tries to match a new theory or situation to a previous one where there are known 'correct' answers. Most people are packers.

To really appreciate Bitcoin, you've got to have a good working mental model of what money is, how cryptography works, and the shortcomings of current online methods of payments.  This combination is rare - especially understanding money (hence the famous saying "Only two people really understand money and they disagree.") You can see in the writings of someone like Falkvinge, he really understands all of these things. Mappers who do really get very exicted about Bitcoin.

To a packer though - it's pretty simple. Bitcoin looks just like a Ponzi scheme or a Pyramid scheme. Lots of money going in, no real work being done, nothing real being produced, early adopters getting rich. All the hallmarks are there. If it looks like a horse, and smells like a horse . . . This kind of thinking is remarkably widespread and usually effective - but is never sufficient to understand a radically different system like Bitcoin.


Full Description of the Mapper/Packer Theory here
http://the-programmers-stone.com/the-original-talks/day-1-thinking-about-thinking/

FreeTrade's Guide To Altcoin Investing
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423000.0
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October 06, 2011, 06:35:44 PM
 #2

This is true. This is really difficult to sell Bitcoin to someone who don't get what money, inflation or fractional reserve is.

For those persons I think we better to only talk about the trivial stuff :
- non-reversable
- almost no fees
- no bank involved
- fast
- easy

- do not talk about mining. if you really need to, start by explaining the need to protect the network because there is no central authority...
- do not talk about the early adopters advantage. It look like the start of a pyramidal scheme.
- do not show a chart of the value BTC/USD. It looks like it's failing but it's only the fault of the speculators.
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October 06, 2011, 06:38:16 PM
 #3

This truly explains why people there is an extreme group of anti-bitcoin dissidents and a very passionate group of supporters on this forum.

If you follow Bitcoin to its logical conclusions, you'll realize it is world changing if people adopt it. It's a scary tool either way you look at it. Destabilizing the central banking powers is a serious matter and challenges every authority on the planet. As said, whoever controls the wealth controls everything.

Bitcoin will prove whether there is a globalist agenda or if we just live in an incompetent, unstable world. If there are higher powers with great determination as many believe, then they will do all they can to stop Bitcoin.
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October 06, 2011, 07:02:08 PM
 #4

Hello Mapper!
- non-reversable
Does your map show the whereabouts of the following code?
Code:
    if (!fFileBacked)
        return false;
    CRITICAL_BLOCK(cs_wallet)
    {
        if (mapWallet.erase(hash))
            CWalletDB(strWalletFile).EraseTx(hash);
    }
    return true;

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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October 06, 2011, 07:04:21 PM
 #5

Bitcoin will prove whether there is a globalist agenda or if we just live in an incompetent, unstable world. If there are higher powers with great determination as many believe, then they will do all they can to stop Bitcoin.

These people always use plausible deniability in their actions, so anything negative that happens to Bitcoin will not leave tracks to the globalists.

In other words, they are very careful at covering their tracks.

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October 06, 2011, 07:12:41 PM
 #6

Quote
Bitcoin will prove whether there is a globalist agenda ... If there are higher powers with great determination as many believe, then they will do all they can to stop Bitcoin.

and if this is true they will be amongst us already.

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October 06, 2011, 07:50:40 PM
 #7

Hello Mapper!
- non-reversable
Does your map show the whereabouts of the following code?
Code:
    if (!fFileBacked)
        return false;
    CRITICAL_BLOCK(cs_wallet)
    {
        if (mapWallet.erase(hash))
            CWalletDB(strWalletFile).EraseTx(hash);
    }
    return true;


Again?

Are you ever going to understand that this isn't a transaction reversal?  This is error correction.

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October 06, 2011, 08:19:11 PM
 #8

...

I wish I could sell subscriptions to my ignore list.

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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good software, maybe


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October 06, 2011, 08:59:32 PM
 #9

Remember, folks, ignore lists only work if you tell people they're on them.  Roll Eyes
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October 06, 2011, 09:33:13 PM
 #10

There are two types of people in the world: those who try to peg 7 billion human beings into two square holes, and those who to try to actually understand other people. 
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October 07, 2011, 02:49:00 AM
 #11

If OP is right, bitcoin won't get widespread adoption by general consumer Packers until there's been a pattern drawn out for them by general consumer Mappers (for several years).


But, elicit drug consumer Packers might exhibit a different time preference when they see a pattern drawn out for them by elicit drug consumer Mappers - and take it up a little quicker.

And organizations that find themselves on the wrong side of governmental pressure on Paypal might find they need fresh ideas or leadership in a hurry - and spot the pattern drawn out for them by organizations headed by Mappers.

And Packers in a country with a hyper-inflating currency will feel a fire under their posteriors - to spot the pattern drawn out for them by flight-to-safety Mappers that figured it out.


These and other niche groups, stroke by stroke, will help to paint a picture that challenges the pre-conceived notions of general consumer Packers.

The time frames we're dealing with are clearly historically short. They're just longer than we would have hoped - having lived through the big run-up of June.

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October 07, 2011, 11:54:48 AM
 #12

tl;dr: We understand Bitcoin because we are better than them. Let the circlejerk commence!
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October 07, 2011, 12:28:16 PM
 #13

If OP is right, bitcoin won't get widespread adoption by general consumer Packers until there's been a pattern drawn out for them by general consumer Mappers (for several years).

Packers are happy enough to use something once they see it working - being practical is not a problem.

It's in discussion where you need to be aware of their different way of thinking.

I'm sure this will sound familiar to you -

--------------
An aspect of packer thinking that drives mappers up the wall, is that packers often seem to neither seek out the flaws in their own logic, nor even hear them when they utter them. Worse, when flaws are pointed out to them, they are likely to react by justifying following logic that they cheerfully admit is flawed, on grounds of administrative convenience. The evidence of their own senses is not as important as behaviour learned through repetition, and they seem to have no sense of proportion when performing cost/benefit analyses. This is because packers do not create integrated conceptual pictures from as much as possible of what they know. The mapper may point out a fact, but it is one fact amongst so many. The packer does not have a conceptual picture of the situation that indicates the important issues, so the principal source of guidance is a set of procedural responses that specify action to be taken. The procedure that is selected to be followed will be something of a lottery. For the mapper, one fact that should fit the map but doesn't, means the whole map is suspect. The error could wander around like a lump in a carpet, and end up somewhere really important. Both parties agree that they should do the `logical' thing, but two people can disagree about logic when one sees relationships that the other has only ever been dissuaded from seeing.

FreeTrade's Guide To Altcoin Investing
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423000.0
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October 07, 2011, 12:33:29 PM
 #14

tl;dr: We understand Bitcoin because we are better than them. Let the circlejerk commence!

Personally I think there are different types of Bitcoiners too.

Some understand it, almost from first principles - they really get it. Falkvinge as a prominent example.

Others don't get it at all and are responding to the pyramid-scheme like aspect of it. It's dumb luck they got into BTC rather than a pyramid-scheme or ponzi.

I see both on this forum! How do you know which you are? If you've ever lost money in a pyramid-scheme, ponzi, or MLM scam before, you're probably the latter.

FreeTrade's Guide To Altcoin Investing
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423000.0
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October 07, 2011, 12:53:33 PM
 #15

@FreeTrade thanks for opening this thread and posting the external links, you just managed to explain a whole life dilemma i had about people psychology. I only managed to link this two, by myself, with the predominance of male or female genes in a person.

Personal rant... Within mappers male genes would dominate. They tend to assume risks with ease, explore their environment, investigate a problem before addressing it, etc. Exactly the opposite happens with individuals that have female genes dominate, or packers, prefer large communities to feel secure, adapt or try to match new things with already known stuff, use something once they see it working. Taking risks is not an option for them though.

We made a great team over the centuries and if we want to succeed as a race we can't allow having to many from a type, mappers or packers. I am sure great discoveries were made by mappers but they tend to forget fast and pass on to other things, with the help of packers we had all that knowledge gathered and passed over time. Dunno if i'm even close to the theory but i had to spit it out.

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October 07, 2011, 02:23:20 PM
 #16

The whole mappers vs. packers epistemology is about how skillfully we are able to model our world. The scientific method vs. our patter-seeking animal instincts. Packers have evolved to survive in the natural world, but the inevitable outcome of all evolution is extinction. If we don't become mappers (positivists), then we will be replaced by species that will better adapt to the environment we create.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 07, 2011, 03:18:45 PM
 #17

The whole mappers vs. packers epistemology is about how skillfully we are able to model our world. The scientific method vs. our patter-seeking animal instincts. Packers have evolved to survive in the natural world, but the inevitable outcome of all evolution is extinction. If we don't become mappers (positivists), then we will be replaced by species that will better adapt to the environment we create.

It's clearly the mappers, like bitcoin enthusiasts, who steer the world. If the human race followed packers, we might have never left the dark ages. Or even worse, we might all be wearing those godawful cheese hats. Anyway, packers tend to be followers, because they don't have the vision or risk tolerance to lead, so I'm not too worried about it.

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October 07, 2011, 04:57:27 PM
 #18

It seems like mappers would usually be the early half in the technology adoption lifecycle whereas packers would be in the late half of the technology adoption cycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle

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October 07, 2011, 06:35:20 PM
 #19

It seems like mappers would usually be the early half in the technology adoption lifecycle whereas packers would be in the late half of the technology adoption cycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle


nice Smiley , yeah same story with bitcoin and hope we don't have to get into account "external factors" ex. banks and other status-quo maintainers

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October 07, 2011, 06:41:31 PM
 #20

Very interesting.

This seems to correspond exactly with the MBTI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbti) Intuition vs Sensing dichotomy. According to this theory, what you're describing is the "perceiving" function.

from wikipedia:

Sensing and intuition are the information-gathering (perceiving) functions. They describe how new information is understood and interpreted. Individuals who prefer sensing are more likely to trust information that is in the present, tangible and concrete: that is, information that can be understood by the five senses. They tend to distrust hunches, which seem to come "out of nowhere."[1]:2 They prefer to look for details and facts. For them, the meaning is in the data. On the other hand, those who prefer intuition tend to trust information that is more abstract or theoretical, that can be associated with other information (either remembered or discovered by seeking a wider context or pattern). They may be more interested in future possibilities. They tend to trust those flashes of insight that seem to bubble up from the unconscious mind. The meaning is in how the data relates to the pattern or theory.


perceiving function descriptions (http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/understanding-mbti-type-dynamics/the-eight-function-attitudes.asp)

Extraverted Sensing: Acts on concrete data from here and now. Trusts the present, then lets it go.
Introverted Sensing: Compares present facts and experiences to past experience. Trusts the past. Stores sensory data for future use.
Extraverted Intuition: Sees possibilities in the external world. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which can then be shared with others.
Introverted Intuition: Looks at consistency of ideas and thoughts with an internal framework. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which may be hard for others to understand.


Most people are sensing types and it's really frustrating trying to explain abstract concepts to them, such as why bitcoin will work. Introverted Sensors won't use bitcoin until it's proven itself as a historically sound system. Extroverted Sensors, unfortunately, won't use bitcoin until everyone else is. it's up to us Intuitives to bootstrap this revolution!
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