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Author Topic: Bitcoin == terrorism?  (Read 3771 times)
Hal
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March 20, 2011, 06:52:34 PM
 #1

Here is the government press release on the Liberty Dollar case:

http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel11/ce031811.htm

Quote
“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she added. “We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.”

I worry that Bitcoin can be seen as even more of a threat to the supremacy of the dollar, which by this reasoning would make it terrorism. An extreme claim, to be sure, but apparently the U.S. Is willing to go there.

The government also advances this theory:

Quote
Article I, section 8, clause 5 of the United States Constitution delegates to Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. This power was delegated to Congress in order to establish and preserve a uniform standard of value and to insure a singular monetary system for all purchases and debts in the United States, public and private. Along with the power to coin money, Congress has the concurrent power to restrain the circulation of money which is not issued under its own authority in order to protect and preserve the constitutional currency for the benefit of all citizens of the nation. It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.

Now this is really stretching the truth. Until the Civil War era, there was no U.S. currency as such, rather paper money was issued, perfectly legally, by private banks. There is no Constitutional prohibition of private currency. There is a law that prohibits private metallic coins, 18 USC 486, which is what they used against LD. It's ominous to see the U.S. expanding its claims like this, to the point where they would cover Bitcoin.

Hal Finney
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HatcanLL9
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March 20, 2011, 08:14:13 PM
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To be fair, the liberty dollar was very focused on the united states, actually existed as a hard currency, had a central issuer/authority and mimicked the US$ quite a bit.  These things don't apply to bitcoins.
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March 20, 2011, 09:22:36 PM
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Wow, I guess the attorney never looked up the word "terrorism" in the dictionary.

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March 20, 2011, 09:23:22 PM
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Kitty activism FTW!

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March 20, 2011, 09:32:43 PM
 #5

Perhaps my faith in humanity is too great, but I think most people will read US Attorney Tompkins' quote there and think he's way out of line comparing the minting of silver dollars to terrorism.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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March 20, 2011, 09:47:59 PM
 #6

Wow, I guess the attorney never looked up the word "terrorism" in the dictionary.
Unfortunately, the misappropriation of words happens far too much.

Use my Trade Hill referral code: TH-R11519

Check out bitcoinity.org and Ripple.

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Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 20, 2011, 09:59:05 PM
 #7

Perhaps my faith in humanity is too great, but I think most people will read US Attorney Tompkins' quote there and think he's way out of line comparing the minting of silver dollars to terrorism.

hahaha haven't people already said that the economic crisis might have been an economic terrorist attack?
I said the US might try doing something like this a bit ago and some people laughed. I'm not surprised and by the wording they could use it against btc.

I think the biggest defense for btc is that it's not designed for the US as much as the world. Obviously there are a lot of Americans using it but not exclusively for sure. Hell wasn't even started (far as I know) by an American.

Also anyone that thinks btc is below the radar is wrong.

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March 20, 2011, 10:01:55 PM
 #8

Also anyone that thinks btc is below the radar is wrong.
Care to elaborate?

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
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March 20, 2011, 10:13:53 PM
 #9

Kitty activism FTW!
+1
Jim Hyslop
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March 20, 2011, 10:38:05 PM
 #10

Wow, I guess the attorney never looked up the word "terrorism" in the dictionary.
These days, American politicians and law-enforcement agencies label just about anything they don't like as "terrorism." I'd be willing to bet that if I searched hard enough, I'll find some idiot who called a natural disaster a terrorist attack (or at least compared it to one).

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Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 20, 2011, 10:40:32 PM
 #11

Also anyone that thinks btc is below the radar is wrong.
Care to elaborate?

Sure. I can't prove that it's being actively watched etc but if you just glance at some of the things being talked about on here it's pretty obvious that it's going to draw some attention. With the amount of posts that are full of anti government / anti US statements plus hacking / potential illegal uses of btc and everything else that gets talked about on these boards and associated with btc there's no way it doesn't generate some heat. Look at the amount of people that have been arrested over a joking facebook post that someone thought was dangerous then multiply that by who knows how many that were investigated but they didn't take any action. There is a significant amount of people talking about things that the government (some rightfully) would be concerned with. I'd bet everything I've got they're well aware of btc and keeping tabs. I don't see how any system that automatically parsed keywords wouldn't flag these boards in a heartbeat and it's publicly known that they're more than capable of that.

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March 20, 2011, 10:51:39 PM
 #12


Internationally traded electronically-generated P2P credits are not the concern of the North Carolina State Attorney's office ... as much as he might wish them to be.

In fact, they are of no-one's concern, they are completely unregulated as far as I know, as in there are no regulators that have a concern or a legal remit encompassing what these are. For now, we are off the reservation of the debt-fiat tax slaves.

Bleeding-edge freedom. One step ahead of the drones and their parasitic handlers.

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 20, 2011, 10:58:57 PM
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Yeah but there's a big difference between being "illegal" and really not appreciated by the US gov.
I'm not saying it's illegal just that it has their attention. Also it doesn't have to be illegal for them to try to do something about.
It also doesn't have to be illegal to be labeled an attack on the US or terrorism. I honestly don't see it being too long (assuming btc continues to grow) before it gets labeled as the premier choice of criminals because it meshes so well with dirty money and illegal activities. Of course the same could be said of cash but no one is going to try and ban it based on that. 

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March 20, 2011, 11:09:57 PM
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Wow, I guess the attorney never looked up the word "terrorism" in the dictionary.

Anybody who wears a turban in the United States is considered a terrorist.

Same goes for anybody of darker complexion.
Jim Hyslop
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March 20, 2011, 11:31:18 PM
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Wow, I guess the attorney never looked up the word "terrorism" in the dictionary.

Anybody who wears a turban in the United States is considered a terrorist.

Same goes for anybody of darker complexion.
I wish I could accuse you of hyperbole. Sadly, you are correct.

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March 20, 2011, 11:35:44 PM
 #16

My name is Hasheem the Terrorist and I approve of BitCoin

http://images.onbux.com/banner.gif
I then use the money to buy BitCoins. You can too!
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 20, 2011, 11:55:30 PM
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I was thinking about making this post with the subject "Al Qaeda now accepting BTC donations"
Honestly nothing would stop them from doing that and it would provide an easy way for people to support them and get away with it.
Let's say this does happen, I could see the backlash / press being huge. I picture people like my mom seeing btc as evil after that. Of course we can always go with the no bad publicity viewpoint.

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March 21, 2011, 12:04:44 AM
 #18

My name is Hasheem the Terrorist and I approve of BitCoin

Bitcoin is perfect if you are stuck in a cave hiding out.

Signed
Obama Bin Laden
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March 21, 2011, 12:13:08 AM
 #19

I read those comments earlier today on www.zerohedge.com with rage.  The jury should have nullified:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification  The next time you are called for jury duty, don't avoid it.  Your first duty is to weigh whether the law benefits the citizens:  if it doesn't, argue for not guilty or hang the jury.  Whatever happened to

 "...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."  

I don't like the nonfederal noreserve creating fiat currency out of nothing and gifting it to their best connected friends at the expense of the citizens.  At least Bitcoins go out in a fair lottery.  It's time to fight back with Bitcoins.  Put your surplus goods up for sale for Bitcoins (on sites like Biddingpond) and support the price on Mt. Gox.  Withdraw consent for US$ fiat toilet paper and move to alternatives like gold, silver, barter, Local Exchange Currency and Bitcoins.
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 21, 2011, 01:34:35 AM
 #20


I don't like the nonfederal noreserve creating fiat currency out of nothing and gifting it to their best connected friends at the expense of the citizens.  At least Bitcoins go out in a fair lottery.  It's time to fight back with Bitcoins.  Put your surplus goods up for sale for Bitcoins (on sites like Biddingpond) and support the price on Mt. Gox.  Withdraw consent for US$ fiat toilet paper and move to alternatives like gold, silver, barter, Local Exchange Currency and Bitcoins.

I'm with you 100% I've got a product I'm developing that I think the bitcoin community will really be interested in. Of course I'll accept USD or whatever but I am also going to sell for BTC and I might even offer a slight discount.

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