Dear JollyGood,
I highlighted the key point of your offense towards the ADAB solutions project.
Your offense regarding source of funding for the ICO.
Dear Sir thank you for the reply. Thank you for raising some of the issues commented on but I have no offence regarding the ICO.
ADAB Solutions cannot borrow from or financially transact with someone whose wealth is completely, or predominantly, haram. If it is predominantly halal, then financial transaction, borrowing, accepting gifts, etc. would be permissible. If one is unsure, then the default assumption is that most of their wealth is lawful. ADAB Solutions doing KYC and AML on their investors and need not investigate deep into the wealth of investor, but rather the basis is what is apparent.
Thank you for your interpretation. Please elaborate where this stance is promoted: chapter and verse of Quran or Hadith
The onus is on the one seeking investment to ensure that the individual providing investment has passed all necessary checks that can be cross referenced to confirm that no illegal or immoral way was implemented or carried out to source that wealth. If the one seeking investment cannot or will not carry out correct vetting procedure then he should refrain from accepting or asking investment from those sources.
Your comment on the default assumption is truly tragic. If you believe in accepting funding from people or organisations that could be involved with illegal or immoral funding on the basis that KYC is enough and further investigation is not necessary (on that basis alone because it is "apparent") - is very sad and very misguided.
If the Majority of the profit the company makes is from a halal activity and you are not directly involved in the smaller haram aspect of it, then you aught to assume that your income is from the halal, and you won't be culpable.
Again I must thank you for your interpretation. Please elaborate where this stance is promoted: chapter and verse of Quran or Hadith
I have not even made any comment at all about the "trading" or "investing" part of the activities post-ICO of the exchange other than if it is using income and investment from sources that cannot be vetted then it cannot be called Shariah compliant. Even if an exchange will investment its funds in a Halal manner the fact that those funds have or could have come from illegal or immoral sources means the Halal investments cannot be separated from the Haraam sources. A lack of willingness or even minimal attempts to make appropriate checks will not be enough justification The impression you give is that you just want investment without worrying about the root of the sources beyond KYC.
If you find out that part of received money from haram sources best to give it to charity because you can't do anything else with it. But you shouldn’t expect any reward for giving it to charity.
and Allah ta'ala knows best.
Thank you for your interpretation but it seems out of context. There are two different issues going on here.
The first is that there are a lot of people who potentially could invest in a business that currently does not exist. That business is looking for funding via the ICO to raise money to start its business. You have might carry out KYC but there is no way (it is impossible) to vet them and their sources of income. You have no idea whether the person or company participating in the ICO is involved with: pimps, prostitutes, porn actors, those currently behind bars in prison serving prison sentences, those that sell drugs/narcotics, those that manufacture, test and sell weapons, those that own publications online/print mediacursing Muslims and those that have anti-Muslim agenda.
If any funding for the ICO is received from illegal or immoral earnings then to call it Shariah compliant or Halal is an insult to anybody and everybody with an atoms worth if intelligence.
Second, if any funding for the ICO is received from illegal or immoral earnings then the every transaction taken by the exchange after launch is affected. To call it Shariah compliant or Halal is an insult to anybody and everybody with an atoms worth if intelligence.
Your comment about giving income from money to charity if you find out it is from Haraam sources is correct but out of context. In this case, you will receive thousands of US$ in the form of crypto to fund your project. "If" you discover that a pimp or drug dealer invested $10,000 USD in the ICO, exactly how will give his $10,000 to charity or return his portion of profit along with your portion of the profit to charity when there is nothing in the TOS to support this? And when your pre-launch checks should nullify this potential issue but you choose not to investigate sources of income along with KYC.
Your offense regarding non-Muslim members of the ADAB team
Islamic finance is not only for Muslims. This means that Islamic financial institutions will not turn away non‐Muslim customers, and non‐Muslims can provide Islamic financial services. In practice, one can find examples of the large number of non‐Muslim participants in Islamic financial institutions worldwide.
The message is that Islamic finance is also for non-Muslims the market potential of Islamic finance is far greater than just the population of Muslim countries and Muslim minorities in non-Muslim countries. Sustainable and responsible investing could also be driving the growth for Islamic finance due to the commonalities in values and shared principles.
Thank you for raising the issues but I have no offence regarding it. I never once mentioned non-Muslims cannot or should not use an Islamic service. Islamic services are open to all.
The most common translation of kaafir is a disbeliever. It is opposite of a believer. Those who believe that “There is no God except Allah, Mohammad is the messenger of Allah” and profess it are believers and those who reject it are kaafir. In my view the correct translation of kaafir will be rejectors. In common use these days those who are believers are referred as Muslims and disbelievers are referred as kaafir.
Before you name somebody “kaafir”, I want you to read carefully the Hadith: In Saheeh al-Bukhaari (6104) and Saheeh Muslim (60) it is narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man declares his brother to be a kaafir, it will apply to one of them.” According to another report: “Either it is as he said, otherwise it will come back to him.”
I fail to see how the above comment can deflect the facts. On your Board of Advisors you have made inappropriate choices: You have a non-Muslim (Gaurav Areng Chakraverti) who is advising a Muslim organisation on how to remain Shariah compliant during the ICO process? Absolutely shocking. Do you have any idea how bad that sounds? A non-Muslim advising Muslims on a Shariah product!
On the same Board of Advisors you have someone with a Muslim name (Mohammed/Muhammad) but he shortens it to "Md" and is listed as Md Mofassair Hossain. He did this knowing the significance of the name. Somewhat insulting and condescending to the very people "Md" is hired to use his PR on. Having said that he failed in his role as a PR and marketing advisor because the "Md" part is all that will be remembered about him.
Your comment quoting Hadith are out of context again. You seem to pick and choose the elements of any quote you want and use it in a manner to suit your agenda. I never used the word "Kafir" and never stated any Muslim was non-Muslim. If you imply that your advisor Gaurav Areng Chakraverti is a Muslim then I will ask for some form of evidence before I will apologise but we both know that I was correct in citing a non-Muslim as a non-Muslim.
As far your quotations of scriptures are concerned I have nothing more to add but it would help investors associate with your service or disassociate with it if they were told about the Muslims behind this project. I did not receive an answer from you so maybe you will reply:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4720775.msg46457645#msg46457645There is nothing in this ADAB exchange that makes it more or less Shariah compliant than any other exchange out there.
For non Muslim investors this is just another investment opportunity which they will have to investigate before deciding to invest or not.
For Muslims they would like to see evidence of Shariah compliance in this exchange and non-Shariah compliance in other exchanges and that evidence must be provided by the people claiming to be offering the Shariah compliant product in other words Adab Exchange.
I see glossary photos, lots of paid promotions and so on involving what appear to be either non-Muslim people making presentations or those who claim to be Muslim but nobody knows if they are Muslim or not.
1) Why did these Adab people use Islam as their unique selling point to ask for ICO funding when they could simply have created the exact exchange but without trying to say it is Shariah compliant when it clearly cannot be any more or less Shariah compliant or acceptable than Binance, Poloniex and the rest...
2) What are the specific factors making this project Shariah compliant?
3) And which interpretation of Shariah is being applied?
-Is it Sunni? If so which one Hanafi, Maliki, Sha'fi or Hanbali?
-Is it Shia? If so which one Ismaili Shia, Twelver Shia or other?
-Is it Druze if so which denomination?
-Is it Alawites, if so which denomination?
4) Whichever interpretation or version you deem to be the correct one, which of the other denominations and branches of Islam would you (because of your teaching and following) class as either heretics or complete non-believers?
5) Would you accept investment from peoples or groups you deem to be non-believers or heretics? Please explain why
Best regards,
Maxat Salpyn,
Deputy-CEO on Islamic finance,
ADAB Solutions
Best regards to you too. Thank you for your comments but they have further strengthened the view that if anything, if this project goes live it would just be a crypto exchange and definitely not Shariah compliant Halal exchange. Listed above are several prime examples showing exactly why this project is not Shariah compliant. Thank you.
