Bitcoin Millionaires

[superresistant]

Well if it's just having about 100BTC, there is plenty of millionaires out there.

Is it really interesting at all ?

[DannyHamilton]

There can be at most 21 bitcoin millionaires at any given time.

This is not quite true.

As of the year 2028, there will be more than 20,000,000 bitcoins in existence, however there will never be as many as 20,999,999.9769

Therefore, after 2028, there can be at most 20 bitcoin millionaires at any given time (and one person who is frustratingly close to being a millionaire, but falls just short).

I can't remember exactly how many bitcoins have been destroyed, so I'm not sure just how short of being a millionaire the extra person falls.

[superresistant]

There can be at most 21 bitcoin millionaires at any given time.

This is not quite true.
As of the year 2028, there will be more than 20,000,000 bitcoins in existence, however there will never be as many as 20,999,999.9769
Therefore, after 2028, there can be at most 20 bitcoin millionaires at any given time (and one person who is frustratingly close to being a millionaire, but falls just short).

According to estimations, a part of Bitcoins are lost.
Some say that up to 1/3 of Bitcoin are or will be lost.
So that's 14 Bitcoins millionaires max.

[DannyHamilton]

There can be at most 21 bitcoin millionaires at any given time.

This is not quite true.
As of the year 2028, there will be more than 20,000,000 bitcoins in existence, however there will never be as many as 20,999,999.9769
Therefore, after 2028, there can be at most 20 bitcoin millionaires at any given time (and one person who is frustratingly close to being a millionaire, but falls just short).

According to estimations, a part of Bitcoins are lost.
Some say that up to 1/3 of Bitcoin are or will be lost.
So that's 14 Bitcoins millionaires max.

I suppose that depends on whether significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms.  If significant enough weaknesses are discovered, then those "lost" bitcoins can be recovered, once again increasing the maximum number of possible millionaires.  There are however some bitcoins that were completely destroyed due to a bug in someone's mining program.  They no longer exist, and can't be recovered without changing the nature of the bitcoin protocol.  I'm not sure exactly how many were destroyed, but I suspect that it was significantly less than 1000 BTC.

[superresistant]

There can be at most 21 bitcoin millionaires at any given time.

This is not quite true.
As of the year 2028, there will be more than 20,000,000 bitcoins in existence, however there will never be as many as 20,999,999.9769
Therefore, after 2028, there can be at most 20 bitcoin millionaires at any given time (and one person who is frustratingly close to being a millionaire, but falls just short).

According to estimations, a part of Bitcoins are lost.
Some say that up to 1/3 of Bitcoin are or will be lost.
So that's 14 Bitcoins millionaires max.

I suppose that depends on whether significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms.  If significant enough weaknesses are discovered, then those "lost" bitcoins can be recovered, once again increasing the maximum number of possible millionaires.  There are however some bitcoins that were completely destroyed due to a bug in someone's mining program.  They no longer exist, and can't be recovered without changing the nature of the bitcoin protocol.  I'm not sure exactly how many were destroyed, but I suspect that it was significantly less than 1000 BTC.

If you just take the case of XCP : 2130.84 BTC have been burned (lost forever).
https://blockchain.info/address/1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr

[kik1977]

There can be at most 21 bitcoin millionaires at any given time.

This is not quite true.
As of the year 2028, there will be more than 20,000,000 bitcoins in existence, however there will never be as many as 20,999,999.9769
Therefore, after 2028, there can be at most 20 bitcoin millionaires at any given time (and one person who is frustratingly close to being a millionaire, but falls just short).

According to estimations, a part of Bitcoins are lost.
Some say that up to 1/3 of Bitcoin are or will be lost.
So that's 14 Bitcoins millionaires max.

I suppose that depends on whether significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms.  If significant enough weaknesses are discovered, then those "lost" bitcoins can be recovered, once again increasing the maximum number of possible millionaires.  There are however some bitcoins that were completely destroyed due to a bug in someone's mining program.  They no longer exist, and can't be recovered without changing the nature of the bitcoin protocol.  I'm not sure exactly how many were destroyed, but I suspect that it was significantly less than 1000 BTC.

If you just take the case of XCP : 2130.84 BTC have been burned (lost forever).
https://blockchain.info/address/1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr

What's the story of that address, Superresistant?

[OnkelPaul]

I suppose that depends on whether significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms.  If significant enough weaknesses are discovered, then those "lost" bitcoins can be recovered, once again increasing the maximum number of possible millionaires.

However, if such a weakness were found, it could just as well be used to "recover" bitcoins that are currently in other people's wallets and essentially are "lost" to me :-)
This would certainly increase the number of possible bitcoin millionaires, but in practice it would mean that either
- I would become the sole bitcoin multimillionaire (if I knew the secret and didn't tell anybody)
- Everybody could be a bitcoin millionaire for a short moment until the coins are siphoned away again (if everybody knew the trick).
In both cases, owning a million bitcoins would be comparable to owning a million zimbabwean dollars...

Onkel Paul

[DannyHamilton]

I suppose that depends on whether significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms.  If significant enough weaknesses are discovered, then those "lost" bitcoins can be recovered, once again increasing the maximum number of possible millionaires.  There are however some bitcoins that were completely destroyed due to a bug in someone's mining program.  They no longer exist, and can't be recovered without changing the nature of the bitcoin protocol.  I'm not sure exactly how many were destroyed, but I suspect that it was significantly less than 1000 BTC.

If you just take the case of XCP : 2130.84 BTC have been burned (lost forever).
https://blockchain.info/address/1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr

As I said, those are "lost".  They still exist, they've just been sent to an address for which almost certainly nobody currently has the private key.

However, if significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms, those bitcoins could be recovered.

There are a number of bitcoins that have actually "destroyed".  They no longer exist in the blockchain.  I don't recall how many, but those bitcoins cannot be recovered without changing the nature of the bitcoin protocol.

[bitpop]

Can someone please post a definition of millionaire?

[DannyHamilton]

I suppose that depends on whether significant enough weaknesses are ever found in the RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, and ECDSA algorithms.  If significant enough weaknesses are discovered, then those "lost" bitcoins can be recovered, once again increasing the maximum number of possible millionaires.

However, if such a weakness were found, it could just as well be used to "recover" bitcoins that are currently in other people's wallets and essentially are "lost" to me :-)
This would certainly increase the number of possible bitcoin millionaires, but in practice it would mean that either
- I would become the sole bitcoin multimillionaire (if I knew the secret and didn't tell anybody)
- Everybody could be a bitcoin millionaire for a short moment until the coins are siphoned away again (if everybody knew the trick).
In both cases, owning a million bitcoins would be comparable to owning a million zimbabwean dollars...

Onkel Paul

If such weaknesses are discovered, the cryptographic signature and hash algorithms used by Bitcoin could be updated.

You're right, if weaknesses to all three were "suddenly" discovered by a single person and kept secret, they could steal all the bitcoins.  However, realistically, this is not how cryptography becomes broken.  It is nearly certain that progressive weaknesses will be discovered slowly over a period of months or, more likely, years. This will allow plenty of time to change the addresses that bitcoins are stored in (excepet the ones that are "lost", which then could eventually be recoverable).

As a practical matter, there can't be anywhere near 20 bitcoin millionaires, since far too many people own portions of bitcoins that they would not give up.  But as an mental exercise, the technical details of the bitcoin protocol limit the maximum possible number to 20.  

[DannyHamilton]

Can someone please post a definition of millionaire?

I already did.

Of course, you make a habit of random posts without putting any effort into reading the content of the threads you are posting it.  For that matter, you generally don't even read the OP, and instead blindly post comments based entirely on the subject line.

[stellan0r]

Can someone please post a definition of millionaire?

What I would suggest:

If you convert all your BTC today into US-$/UK-£/Euro-€, would you have more than 1000000 $/£/€ just from conversion of BTC?

Or did you do that in the past (maybe when BTC was > 1000 US-$), did you convert enough to receive 1000000 $/£/€ or more?

That would in my opinion qualify as someone who became a millionaire through Bitcoin.
(Even better if you were a "poor" college kid or a single mother of 3 small children 4 years ago and simply mined some bitcoin then because it was crypto fun)

 

[superresistant]

If you just take the case of XCP : 2130.84 BTC have been burned (lost forever).
https://blockchain.info/address/1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr

What's the story of that address, Superresistant?

It is the proof of burn address of Counterparty (XCP). Look for proof-of-burn and Counterparty for more details.

All BTC sent are lost.

[tinus42]

I don't necessarily think that having a net worth of 1 mill makes you a millionaire...  maybe 5-10mill...or maybe as low as 2-3 mill..  I could be wrong, but when I think of millionaire, I think of more than 1 million...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire

A millionaire (originally and sometimes still millionnaire[1]) is an individual whose net worth or wealth is equal to or exceeds one million units of currency.

In general, 5-10 million (or even 2-3 million) is commonly known as "multi-millionaire".

Depends in what currency. In Zimbabwe there were lots of millionaires and billionaires in 2008/09. But they didn't have enough to buy food.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Does Satoshi even have a million Bitcoins?

Can someone please post a definition of millionaire?

Can someone please define definition?

[DannyHamilton]

I don't necessarily think that having a net worth of 1 mill makes you a millionaire...  maybe 5-10mill...or maybe as low as 2-3 mill..  I could be wrong, but when I think of millionaire, I think of more than 1 million...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire

A millionaire (originally and sometimes still millionnaire[1]) is an individual whose net worth or wealth is equal to or exceeds one million units of currency.

In general, 5-10 million (or even 2-3 million) is commonly known as "multi-millionaire".

Depends in what currency. In Zimbabwe there were lots of millionaires and billionaires in 2008/09. But they didn't have enough to buy food.

That doesn't mean that they weren't millionaires (or multi-millionaires, or billionaires).  The definition still applies.  It just means that being a millionaire in that particular currency isn't very impressive or useful.

[superresistant]

Okay, let's say being Millionaire is having the equivalent of 1 Million USD.

[bitpop]

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[bitpop]

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[tinus42]

A millionaire? I'm pretty sure you need to have 1 million bitcoins to qualify as a millionaire.
There can be at most 21 bitcoin millionaires at any given time.

Actually the maximum number of Bitcoins is 20999999.9769 because of rounding. And that excludes lost coins which are about 30% of the total of 12.4 million coins.