ARGENTINA - THE 1ST COUNTRY WITH A BITCOIN BASED ECONOMY?

[bitcoinpropaganda]

When you see this picture you may think that they are waiting for the new iphone, but nope.. they were there to buy dollars.. when they still could. Now they could be buying bitcoins?




I believe that Argentina is an excellent candidate to become the first country with a Bitcoin based economy. They just need a little help of the community.

The reasons:

1. Inflation. +40% in one month, and still growing.
There are a many causes for this but mainly is because the argentine government is incredibly stupid and corrupt, they are trying to install a dictatorial regime like venezuela or cuba, so they need to print money to feed their propaganda programs, buying tv channels, newspapers, corrupting organisms, etc. They spend more than they earn.

2. Argentines can't buy dollars. Because of the inflation the government installed a series of stupid mesaures trying to stop the people to buy dollars or euros to protect their capital (yes, the fucking fed's toilet papers have more value than the argentine peso). These ridiculous measures violates the national constitution, but they don't care. They are terrorists.  In real life this of course works in the other way, now there's a "black market" of foreign money: high demand, prices rises again. BRILLIANT! FUCKING STUPID GOVERNMENT.

3. It's a very weak government and there is no justice at all. Cristina Kirchner or "Kretina" (en. Kretinous as they call her), not only stole more than 10M USD, but also spent 10 years destroying the justice department and corrupting as a much judges as possible to ensure themselves against future demands. Her popularity is on free fall and 80% of the population wants to kill them all.

So we have a rampant inflation, people that cannot protect their capital and an incredibly furious hate towards the government.


THE QUESTION IS: WHY THE HELL THEY ARE NOT BUYING BITCOINS IN LARGE NUMBERS?


Some of them are trying but it's very difficult.

a. Non foreign exchange wants to deal with the argentine peso, so the only way to buy bitcoins is first buying LINDEN DOLLARS! (Second Life money) and then trade them for bitcoins. The fees of these movements are of course too high.

b. Using Localbitcoins. Due to the incredibly high crime (thanks to the fucking narco-government) not too many are willing to risk their lives in a meeting with a stranger.


Here's where I feel that this community should take a step forward in this situation. Preferably before the government takes another loan from the IMF...


They need:

1. Easy Exchange. They will buy bitcoins if you give them the chance. If there are enough bitcoin owners the whole economy could be "bitconized"

2. Promotion, advertising. Contact with opposing political parties.

I cannot help with the first one but I might be able to do something with the second one.


Thoughts?

[jakedeez]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

[bitcoinpropaganda]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

Maybe, idk. But probably the few ones that already have dollars would not trade them for bitcoins. The problem resides in trying to buy btc with argentine peso. If you solve this you might be ending up "bitcoinizing" the entire economy

[Raya]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

No they don't and what makes you think that the government will be willing to accept your proposal?

[bitcoinpropaganda]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

No they don't and what makes you think that the government will be willing to accept your proposal?

I do not expect anything from the current government, maybe from the next one (if there is no fraud like in venezuela).

[Spendulus]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

Maybe, idk. But probably the few ones that already have dollars would not trade them for bitcoins. The problem resides in trying to buy btc with argentine peso. If you solve this you might be ending up "bitcoinizing" the entire economy

i wonder if there is something you can buy in argentina and send out of the country in exchange for bitcoins.  Or just send the numeric codes for the cards.

Gift cards, starbucks cards, walmart or amazon cards?

obviously these would have to be useful in other countries, thus their demonination could not be the argentinian peso.

[bitcoinpropaganda]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

Maybe, idk. But probably the few ones that already have dollars would not trade them for bitcoins. The problem resides in trying to buy btc with argentine peso. If you solve this you might be ending up "bitcoinizing" the entire economy

i wonder if there is something you can buy in argentina and send out of the country in exchange for bitcoins.  Or just send the numeric codes for the cards.

Gift cards, starbucks cards, walmart or amazon cards?

obviously these would have to be useful in other countries, thus their demonination could not be the argentinian peso.

As far as I know Gift cards only work in the country that it was purchased in.

[Spendulus]

Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?

Maybe, idk. But probably the few ones that already have dollars would not trade them for bitcoins. The problem resides in trying to buy btc with argentine peso. If you solve this you might be ending up "bitcoinizing" the entire economy

i wonder if there is something you can buy in argentina and send out of the country in exchange for bitcoins.  Or just send the numeric codes for the cards.

Gift cards, starbucks cards, walmart or amazon cards?

obviously these would have to be useful in other countries, thus their demonination could not be the argentinian peso.

As far as I know Gift cards only work in the country that it was purchased in.

yet another question is what set of goods or services can those in Argentina sell online?  For convenience, consider only non physical goods.

Services.

Artist, editing, copy work, web page design, programming, data entry.  Any of these could be done in Argentina and paid for partly or wholly in bitcoin by a US based firm.  Ask:  what business is being done in India for the US?  What in Russia? etc.

Give it some thought.  These are the better options since they represent new and novel sources of income into the country, eg new cash flow.  Improved trade balance.

As opposed to moving money inside the country into different forms. 

Peso <--> USD <--> BTC>

[Mrrr]

Here's an interesting paper about Argentina's long history with alternative currency:

http://www.xolimited.com/download/rpt/26.pdf

Some of these schemes look awkwardly familiar to bitcoin (we basically only added p2p technology)
Too bad I'm not at Uni anymore otherwise I'd have a nice topic for a paper or 3.

Anyways the above goes to show that Argentinians will be more easily adopting bitcoin since they already have experience with similar alternative currencies.

[Spendulus]

Here's an interesting paper about Argentina's long history with alternative currency:

http://www.xolimited.com/download/rpt/26.pdf

Some of these schemes look awkwardly familiar to bitcoin (we basically only added p2p technology)
Too bad I'm not at Uni anymore otherwise I'd have a nice topic for a paper or 3.

Anyways the above goes to show that Argentinians will be more easily adopting bitcoin since they already have experience with similar alternative currencies.

Perhaps, but the poster lamented about the difficulting of "getting bitcoins", and another mentioned their "high cost in pesos".

I do not think these are valid concerns, rather the ONLY concern is do/would the people of the country trust bitcoin, the currency for which transactions do not require trust.

If so, then (hypothetically) the entire country's substitute currency could consist of only the then available bitcoin stock, or say, for debate purposes, one bitcoin.  The entire country could run on one bitcoin subdivided as required. 

This would create a tremendous disparity between goods priced in Argentina in bitcoin, and goods elsewhere. In these circumstances, suppose 1 satoshi would buy a color TV.  Bitcoins would move into Argentina to buy these goods, until before too long, the street value of bitcoins would reach an equilibrium.

It would be wrong to seek to have that equilibrium before the currency took off.  Particularly in a situation where the country is suffering from an oppressive government, that's not going to be the way it happens.

So my advices is "Begin trading.  Now, with what you got."

[tabnloz]

Argentina needs a tipping point, an event that pushes the first snowflake down the mountain.

The ingredients are all there: inflation, corruption, capital controls, untrustworthy currency and indebtedness to the 1st world vultures.

From my limited understanding Argentina has been screwed for the best part of 20 years and the 'help' given by the IMF et al has just made things worse. It is often mentioned that the deals the IMF / World Bank cuts with distressed countries only ends up enriching a few major players and screwing the people.

Further, since the 08 GFC, US policies of QE, ZIRP & currency devaluation have increased the risks in EM's massively because once the music slows down money gets the hell out and even the most inventive policy backfires unless it toes the line.

Overall though, I think latin america could benefit enormously. It is generally a left leaning continent and by using bitcoin could give some power back to the population.

[Mrrr]

And then imagine this was one of the richest countries in the world early 20th century. Wealthy people in Argentina would pick a European style house from a catalogue. Parts would be produced in Germany, then shipped to Argentina and be build there. (I got a source for this actually, his grandfather worked in the trade, but he himself is in his eighties already) Europa was Argentina's China back then.

And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.

[Spendulus]

And then imagine this was one of the richest countries in the world early 20th century. Wealthy people in Argentina would pick a European style house from a catalogue. Parts would be produced in Germany, then shipped to Argentina and be build there. (I got a source for this actually, his grandfather worked in the trade, but he himself is in his eighties already) Europa was Argentina's China back then.

And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.

Is paypal operating in Argentina?  If so, then perhaps it would be the easy conduit for inflow of bitcoin.  I understand the risks of transaction reversal with Paypal.

Maybe the reach of the Argentine government extends into the workings of Paypal.  Certainly it would for the peso:USD currency translations, but that would not matter for a paypal:bitcoin transaction.

[markjamrobin]

And then imagine this was one of the richest countries in the world early 20th century. Wealthy people in Argentina would pick a European style house from a catalogue. Parts would be produced in Germany, then shipped to Argentina and be build there. (I got a source for this actually, his grandfather worked in the trade, but he himself is in his eighties already) Europa was Argentina's China back then.

And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.

Is paypal operating in Argentina?  If so, then perhaps it would be the easy conduit for inflow of bitcoin.  I understand the risks of transaction reversal with Paypal.

Maybe the reach of the Argentine government extends into the workings of Paypal.  Certainly it would for the peso:USD currency translations, but that would not matter for a paypal:bitcoin transaction.

http://baexpats.org/topic/25466-how-to-use-paypal-to-get-money-out/

Basically about PP in Argentina; However, PP:BTC is never a good idea...

[conspirosphere.tk]

the problem is that no one wants to hold a currency inflating 20 or 30% per month. That's not a currency, it's a nuisance. So the only point to sell btc there could be to buy real assets. But then one could better buy them directly in btc.

[markjamrobin]

the problem is that no one wants to hold a currency inflating 20 or 30% per month. That's not a currency, it's a nuisance. So the only point to sell btc there could be to buy real assets. But then one could better buy them directly in btc.

Currently, the majority of people there take local currency, therefore it would be advantageous to keep money in BTC for stability, and then sell it to buy hard assets, and goods.

[countryfree]

It won't be the country choosing BTC but the people, because the official currency is simply "untrustable".
I'm afraid the government will do all it can to stop the rise of BTC, like making exchanges illegal. It's a matter of honor as the success of BTC could only highlight the failure of all politicians, and Mrs Kirschner would not like that.

Argentina needs much more than a currency change, Argentina most likely needs a revolution.

[Armis]

The best thing for btc is to be associated with stable fiat

[markjamrobin]

The best thing for btc is to be associated with stable fiat

For the masses sure, but I think most of us would prefer to be independent from the government.

[giantdragon]

Using Localbitcoins. Due to the incredibly high crime (thanks to the fucking narco-government) not too many are willing to risk their lives in a meeting with a stranger.

What crime risk can be if you meet in the public place in daytime?! The only one I can imagine is the stranger will be a cop