Magic: the Gathering blockchain analysis? Also, theory of motive..

[thethingis]

I don't have the skill to attempt it myself, but has anyone tried tracing known Magic: the Gathering Online Exchange ("Magic: the Gathering" for short) addresses for BTC inflow/outflow?

Are they moving coins behind the scenes? Anyone who's previously withdrawn or deposited BTC could look for reuse or follow change flows perhaps. Again, not skilled enough myself, but an idea.

Another note: people here seem to advocate buying Magic: the Gathering BTC for the eventual re-opening of withdrawals. However, with the exchange locked down the total amount of BTC and $$$ are fixed. No closed-system transaction can change any of that; for every buyer there's a seller of equal magnitude in both directions. Only the exchange rate (i.e. notional value) changes.

So in this case, we can assume there's a BTC shortfall, meaning someone won't get their BTC out. We don't yet know if there's been a shortfall of $$$ as well, but less likely unless Magic: the Gathering has been really naughty. Hence, the rational thing to do is be positioned in $$$ so as not to be caught last one on the ship. In fact, the drop in BTC price on Magic: the Gathering is the opposite of what Karpeles would want if he were trying to make right by everyone.. ideally he'd want the maximum $ value for selling an existing stake of BTC so that he could go out and buy BTC elsewhere and bring back to Magic: the Gathering to fill the hole.

So I posit that the company is not deliberately tanking the price in order to get cheap coins.. the number of coins in there is fixed. Again, can transaction analysis reveal anything about fund flows at Magic: the Gathering?

[Holliday]

Another note: people here seem to advocate buying Magic: the Gathering BTC for the eventual re-opening of withdrawals.

They do? Most people who suggest this get flooded with "bad idea" posts.

I compare it to playing "russian roulette".

Of course, if you like to gamble... it could pay off big (if MtG:OX is just terribly incompetent after all, and not actually malicious).

[thethingis]

Another note: people here seem to advocate buying Magic: the Gathering BTC for the eventual re-opening of withdrawals.

They do? Most people who suggest this get flooded with "bad idea" posts.

I compare it to playing "russian roulette".

Of course, if you like to gamble... it could pay off big (if MtG:OX is just terribly incompetent after all, and not actually malicious).

Well, some do.

I just read the idea in another thread that Magic: the Gathering could use their trade fee rake (if held in $) to buy BTC that they will never actually see. I hadn't considered the rake as a moderator. This would have the effect of raising the BTC / $$$ exchange rate on Magic: the Gathering, so seems like that's not what they're doing. If they held their rake in BTC, then they could just allocate that to the shortfall, perhaps with no effect on price.

[DannyHamilton]

What exactly is the benefit of typing out "Magic" the Gathering" everytime you refer to them?  Wouldn't it be faster and easier to write "MtGox".  It's not like people around here aren't going to know which service you're talking about if you use the usual acronym.

Are you somehow trying to say that they should be considered to be more legitimate, or more trustworthy, or more competent because their acronym represents some long company name from their past?  I don't get it.

[svojoe]

You know I used to really enjoy Magic the Gathering.    Takes me back to my youth,  ah... Sealed deck tournaments and the smell of freshly opened cards.

[samson]

Another note: people here seem to advocate buying Magic: the Gathering BTC for the eventual re-opening of withdrawals. However, with the exchange locked down the total amount of BTC and $$$ are fixed.

I'll stop you there....

People are still sending money into MtGox to buy the cheap coins. Various processors are working and there's always wire transfer.

Time will tell if this was a wise move by those who did it.

[thethingis]

What exactly is the benefit of typing out "Magic" the Gathering" everytime you refer to them?  Wouldn't it be faster and easier to write "MtGox".  It's not like people around here aren't going to know which service you're talking about if you use the usual acronym.

Are you somehow trying to say that they should be considered to be more legitimate, or more trustworthy, or more competent because their acronym represents some long company name from their past?  I don't get it.

I decided in a post some time ago (I don't expect anyone to have read it) that I would deny "MtGox's" attempted rebranding. The rebranding was intended to distance themselves from their history as a trading card exchange. That history, to my mind, actually diminishes their credibility.

One can presume that their core exchange technology was not replaced wholesale during the switch to Bitcoin, so the rigour with which you might expect Bitcoin software to be written may not be there (you don't need bank-level security for a game card exchange). This is evidenced in the sloppy transaction handling, and more importantly in their processes for fixing sloppy software. The patchwork attempt at repair over months, rather than a detailed effort to understand and analyse the problems, is a major factor in their downfall.

Bitcoin is by and large a consensus ecosystem. Their name is whatever we call them by, not whatever they say it is.   Maybe more people will get on board with going back to their naming roots if I stick to it pedantically.

Disclosure: I have not been harmed in any way by Magic: the Gathering's failings... at least not directly. No funds under deposit, no axe to grind except the pain of watching the fallout on the rest of the Bitcoin world.

[Jcw188]

I find it humorous you're calling it Magic the Gathering.  I think that hurts them too...who would want to deposit thousands of dollars on a system and company built to trade Magic cards?!  I wish they would do SOMETHING though (either enable withdrawals or go under) because the uncertainty is what's killing the market, and Gox DON'T CARE.

[thethingis]

Another note: people here seem to advocate buying Magic: the Gathering BTC for the eventual re-opening of withdrawals. However, with the exchange locked down the total amount of BTC and $$$ are fixed.

I'll stop you there....

People are still sending money into MtGox to buy the cheap coins. Various processors are working and there's always wire transfer.

Time will tell if this was a wise move by those who did it.

Well, shit... I had no idea Magic: the Gathering would be so irresponsible as to allow dollar inflows. Are they allowing dollar withdrawals as well? If so, then I've completely misunderstood the situation.

[ledmaniak]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

[Holliday]

Another note: people here seem to advocate buying Magic: the Gathering BTC for the eventual re-opening of withdrawals. However, with the exchange locked down the total amount of BTC and $$$ are fixed.

I'll stop you there....

People are still sending money into MtGox to buy the cheap coins. Various processors are working and there's always wire transfer.

Time will tell if this was a wise move by those who did it.

Well, shit... I had no idea Magic: the Gathering would be so irresponsible as to allow dollar inflows. Are they allowing dollar withdrawals as well? If so, then I've completely misunderstood the situation.

Bitcoin in? Check

Bitcoin out? ...404 service not found

Fiat in? Check

Fiat out? ...same as the past half of a year (which is how long a fiat withdraw might take, if you ever get your money at all)

[Holliday]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Why don't you just read the thread?

[ledmaniak]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Why don't you just read the thread?

I did, was no answer on that question and OP seems to be continuing it, so I tried again.

[yogi]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Not sure if he's either just being pretentious, or using it as a pejorative term.

[Holliday]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Why don't you just read the thread?

I did, was no answer on that question and OP seems to be continuing it, so I tried again.

He clearly explained it in post #7 of this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=477724.msg5269926#msg5269926

I decided in a post some time ago (I don't expect anyone to have read it) that I would deny "MtGox's" attempted rebranding. The rebranding was intended to distance themselves from their history as a trading card exchange. That history, to my mind, actually diminishes their credibility.

One can presume that their core exchange technology was not replaced wholesale during the switch to Bitcoin, so the rigour with which you might expect Bitcoin software to be written may not be there (you don't need bank-level security for a game card exchange). This is evidenced in the sloppy transaction handling, and more importantly in their processes for fixing sloppy software. The patchwork attempt at repair over months, rather than a detailed effort to understand and analyse the problems, is a major factor in their downfall.

Bitcoin is by and large a consensus ecosystem. Their name is whatever we call them by, not whatever they say it is.  Maybe more people will get on board with going back to their naming roots if I stick to it pedantically.

Disclosure: I have not been harmed in any way by Magic: the Gathering's failings... at least not directly. No funds under deposit, no axe to grind except the pain of watching the fallout on the rest of the Bitcoin world.

[yogi]

Silly post, next OP will be asking us to say "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" instead of just "BTC".

[MineForeman.com]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Why don't you just read the thread?

I did, was no answer on that question and OP seems to be continuing it, so I tried again.

He clearly explained it in post #7 of this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=477724.msg5269926#msg5269926

He (like you) are total new to this all.  What does some time ago mean?  Last week?

EDIT: Apologies, not you, I was looking at someone else.

[ledmaniak]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Why don't you just read the thread?

I did, was no answer on that question and OP seems to be continuing it, so I tried again.

He clearly explained it in post #7 of this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=477724.msg5269926#msg5269926

Thank you. I missed that post.
Probably because I had the reply screen open for too long and ignored the warning..

Silly post, next OP will be asking us to say "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" instead of just "BTC".

Hehe, that's what I meant

[Holliday]

Why don't you just call it MtGox?

Why don't you just read the thread?

I did, was no answer on that question and OP seems to be continuing it, so I tried again.

He clearly explained it in post #7 of this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=477724.msg5269926#msg5269926

He (like you) are total new to this all.  What does some time ago mean?  Last week?

What exactly am I "total new" to?

Why are you asking me what "some time ago" means when the OP is the one who wrote it?

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with this thread.

[MineForeman.com]

What exactly am I "total new" to?

Why are you asking me what "some time ago" means when the OP is the one who wrote it?

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with this thread.

As I said, sorry, I was looking at his profile and yeah, its like the twilight zone.

When he is referring to making a decision "sometime ago" he means literally last week.  He was not around for the years that MtGOX was the only place to reliably exchange bitcoin for cash for a majority of the world.

Neil