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Author Topic: SC Releases his 'white paper', hilarity ensues  (Read 11902 times)
johnj
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October 12, 2011, 03:04:24 AM
 #1

http://i.imgur.com/bTGmi.png

A few highlights

"Why can you trust someone with a million dollar account? Simply because if they have that many coins they are well invested into the SolidCoin system, if they tried to attack the network they would obviously devalue a great amount of their assets. But it's not just this simple, multiple people can have million dollar accounts so how do we sort out who is "more right" if they submit blocks at the same time? We trust the person with the most money, as they have the most to lose."

"One initial problem with this p2p security feature is SolidCoin only had 1.112 million coins prior to this security feature being implemented. To solve this, 10 accounts of 1.2 million were created in the genesis block. These are special accounts that cannot be spent on the network, effectively making them "Null accounts used for special purposes", until SolidCoin does have real millionaires."

Wait, we're supposed to 'trust' the super nodes because they have 1m SC, but these SC are worthless (can't be spent). On top of which the more-than-obvious fallacy of money=trust.  Also, nice mentioning now that you actually premined 13m coins.

And the kickers

"With this new 51% protection feature there is a finally p2p cryptocurrency large businesses and users can rely on."

Right.  13m premined, 1m mined per day, a borked difficulty... don't all you merchants get up at once Wink

Edit: I'm going to go ahead and press that CH recieve the forum 'Scammer' label due to gross bait-and-switch.

1) CH first said that there would only be 1m premined  Now there are 13m which he had to of known was going to be the case while lieing about the initial 1.2m. A premine is a premine regardless of when the coins become 'active'.
2) SC 2.0beta reported grossly false hashrates at the time TBX was on the up-n-up. This was clearly done on purpose to falsely demonstrate a 'superior' CPU algorithm.
3) SC 1.0 -> 2.0 protocol changed dramatically, coupled with the gross inflation SC 1.0 coins have endured due to an apparent borked difficulty (24hrs into launch, 20k blocks, 53 diff. adjustments, and still at <10s blocks)
4) CH has intentionally misled people with paid spam


The scam lies in miners must invest electricity into this chain - and this investment has been manipulated and consolidated by CH. His bait-and-switch technique has landed him in control of millions of coins on top of an unending supply via the tax.


How many more instances of CH outright lieing and deceiving bitcointalk forum members does he need to give before he gets the label?

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Bobnova
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October 12, 2011, 03:06:25 AM
 #2

Right now it's a peer-RS/CH-peer currency Cheesy

That's about the shortest whitepaper ever.

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October 12, 2011, 03:09:43 AM
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Ah, good times Cheesy
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October 12, 2011, 03:24:35 AM
 #4

http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-most-secure-currency.php

Quote
Why can you trust someone with a million dollar account? Simply because if they have that many coins they are well invested into the SolidCoin system
...
To solve this, 10 accounts of 1.2 million were created in the genesis block. These are special accounts that cannot be spent on the network, effectively making them "Null accounts used for special purposes", until SolidCoin does have real millionaires.
A million SC account that can't be spent is worthless, and thus not invested at all. Typical CH double-speak.

Quote
Well that is the 51% attack, and it basically means you can wake up tomorrow with zero Bitcoins in your wallet.
Wrong again. 51% makes double-spends of your own coins possible. A 51% attack on Bitcoin cannot make my coins disappear.

Buy & Hold
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October 12, 2011, 03:24:41 AM
 #5

It's an interesting take on proof-of-stake, but it's far to centralized. For more information about proof-of-stake, read the following threads before you implement it in your next alternative cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27787.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37194.0

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October 12, 2011, 03:28:32 AM
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Quote
Well that is the 51% attack, and it basically means you can wake up tomorrow with zero Bitcoins in your wallet.
Wrong again. 51% makes double-spends of your own coins possible. A 51% attack on Bitcoin cannot make my coins disappear.

He has to know this, right? All of those "articles" on his site merely make false claims about Bitcoin in order to try to scare people into using SolidCoin. How is CoinHunter/BitcoinMedia not in violation of forum rules?
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October 12, 2011, 03:31:29 AM
 #7

We trust the person with the most money, as they have the most to lose.

Quite funny, considering that even if what he's saying is partly true, the amount is still irrelevant -- It would be the percentage invested compared to the person's overall net worth that counts.

I probably care a lot more about my $1000, than some billionaire cares about his $10,000.

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October 12, 2011, 03:32:58 AM
 #8

So he made the "unhackable" digital coin at the cost of the reasoning why most people use it?

Did he win those bets about BitcoinExpress breaking it or is there still the rest of the week for that?

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October 12, 2011, 03:36:21 AM
 #9

http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-most-secure-currency.php
Quote
Yet as this article is being written one person (CoinHunter) can shutdown the entire SolidCoin network. One person. Could you operate a SolidCoin business in conditions where you the only thing standing between you and complete bankrupty is words like "well only if" or "it's sort of unlikely, but" ? Will any serious business open themselves up to a group of hackers able to steal millions of dollars from them? The short answer of course is NO.
There, fixed it for you.

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October 12, 2011, 03:42:06 AM
 #10

Well there's a few obvious questions that spring to mind from it:

1.  How does the network "know" that a node has more than 1 million SCs in a wallet?  Are all generated blocks somehow signed with the address of the largest wallet you own?
2.  How are these wallets with the 1 million coins not able to be used for transactions?  Are we suppsoed to just take SC's word for it - or is there some special functionailty about those accounts?
3.  With any reasonable answers to the above two questions it seems likely to me that the same could have been achieved without pre-genning the 1 mill coins in the wallet.  IF those 'special' accounts ARE somehow different to normal ones then surely the test could be that EITHER the node must hold 1 million coins OR it must own one of the special wallets (without them needing to actually hold 1 million coins).

Doubt we'll get straight answers to the above - but:

A.  If the answer to 2 is "we have to take his word" then obviously his white-paper is intentionally misleading due to him claiming the money "can't" be used rather than that he "won't" use it.
B.  If the answer to 2 is that those accounts are in some way different to other accounts then obviously it follows that there was no need to generate the coins - the special 'status' of those accounts could have been detected instead.  And any such special status HAS to be detectable - or the network wouldn't be able to tell to disallow any attempts to use the content of them.

If he's either lied about the status of those accounts OR has generated millions of coins where there's no reason to (unles he wants to pump and dump with them ofc) then seems like it's just a get rich quick scheme at the exense of anyone gullible enough to buy SC2s (though I find it hard to have any sympathy for anyone that stupid).
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October 12, 2011, 03:50:35 AM
 #11

Let me speak it out clearly: This looks to me as yet another (while more sophisticated) attempt to sell the presence of premined coins and now 'taxes'

Now since it is clear nobody wants that he has gone into the vindication phase.

Please Coinhunter, go back to making HYIPs or whatever you done before.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 12, 2011, 03:53:57 AM
 #12


But wait there is more.  The "even" blocks also have a matching 5% tax.  Coins created out of thin air.  So that is another ~32K coins.  If Coin Hunter has no miner he gains ~64k coins a day for being the glorious leader.

This is why I'm asking for the scammer label.

If this is what had been propsed with SC 1.0, in full disclosure before launch, the chain would have gone nowhere.  Instead, he proposed a BitcoinLite (3 minute blocks), paid spammers to spread FUD, and gained some traction.  That was the bait.  The switch is what we have now.  This has 'scam' written all over it.

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CoinHunter
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October 12, 2011, 03:58:37 AM
 #13

It is double speak but it isn't worthless.  More SC deception.

The super nodes have 12 million and they can't be spent = True.

HOWEVER the super nodes transfer 5% of block reward from Super Node to Coin Hunter (as part of the even blocks).

So yes the 12 million in super nodes can't be spent but slowly that money flows FROM the Super Nodes to Coin Hunter personal wallet .... where it can most certainly be spent.

This is correct, think of trusted nodes spending money to protect their investment, just like rich people do in real life with safes, etc.



As a real world example.  As of time of writing there are 20150 blocks in the chain.  Half of them are the "even" supernode blocks and they each transferred ~3.2 SC to Coin Hunter.  That's ~32K coins.  So the Super nodes no longer have 12 million coins.  They have 11.968 million coins and Coin Hunter has ~32K.

But wait there is more.  The "even" blocks also have a matching 5% tax.  Coins created out of thin air.  So that is another ~32K coins.  If Coin Hunter has no miner he gains ~64k coins a day for being the glorious leader.

The CPF currently has 32354, though it will be obtaining some more as the old bounty wallet is moved into it (2500SC) and the leftover from the genesis block (about 80000 coins). Sorry if you think this is a secret it's not.

SC1 had 30000 premined for bounties, currently the CPF has ~115000 SC, and you think this is a big deal? GG/TBX has 7 million premined coins, do you have threads pointing out the scam factor of this? You should have about 70x more posts about it if you're being fair. Please link me to them.

All the dealings with CPF will be written on the website as part of public policy, there is a block chain remember, everything is recorded.

You may not like what SC2.0 does to solve the security problem, or you may like that part and dislike other parts (CPF). Either way, it's the most advanced cryptochain out there, and will only get better.

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October 12, 2011, 04:03:44 AM
 #14

I'm pretty certain he's lieing at least on one thing:

His "white-paper" basically says the premined wallets are place-holders "until Solid-Coin does have real millionaires".

But elsewhere he's said that every other block has to be mined by a super-node/trusted-node - which get to mine at difficulty 1.

Unless super-node/trusted-node = SC2 millionaire then rather obviously one of those statements is a lie.

IF super-node/trusted-node DOES = SC2 millionaire then that would make another statement of his a lie - that there were multiple criteria to be met to become a trusted node (I suspect there's only two criteria - that your nick rhymes with loinmunter and that you're a scammer).
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October 12, 2011, 04:04:10 AM
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"Why can you trust someone with a million dollar account? Simply because if they have that many coins they are well invested into the SolidCoin system, if they tried to attack the network they would obviously devalue a great amount of their assets. But it's not just this simple, multiple people can have million dollar accounts so how do we sort out who is "more right" if they submit blocks at the same time? We trust the person with the most money, as they have the most to lose."

This is the same reasoning Lolcust used for why we should trust him with 7.7 mil premined. I can't trust Lolcust with that, and I can't trust these million sc holders. Sure, they don't want the coin to fail, but why can't they use their power to make more coins slowly? It won't kill the coin, but it will build their wealth. So now tell me why I should trust them.

This is correct, think of trusted nodes spending money to protect their investment, just like they do in real life with safes, etc.

So what happens after many years of this and all the trusted million dollar accounts are now less than a million dollar because they've transfered enough of their wealth to you and your CPF? Will you then become the sole trusted user and get to control everything? Nice! I'm looking forward to that.

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October 12, 2011, 04:05:09 AM
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It is double speak but it isn't worthless.  More SC deception.

The super nodes have 12 million and they can't be spent = True.

HOWEVER the super nodes transfer 5% of block reward from Super Node to Coin Hunter (as part of the even blocks).

So yes the 12 million in super nodes can't be spent but slowly that money flows FROM the Super Nodes to Coin Hunter personal wallet .... where it can most certainly be spent.

This is correct, think of trusted nodes spending money to protect their investment, just like they do in real life with safes, etc.



As a real world example.  As of time of writing there are 20150 blocks in the chain.  Half of them are the "even" supernode blocks and they each transferred ~3.2 SC to Coin Hunter.  That's ~32K coins.  So the Super nodes no longer have 12 million coins.  They have 11.968 million coins and Coin Hunter has ~32K.

But wait there is more.  The "even" blocks also have a matching 5% tax.  Coins created out of thin air.  So that is another ~32K coins.  If Coin Hunter has no miner he gains ~64k coins a day for being the glorious leader.


The CPF currently has 32354, though it will be obtaining some more as the old bounty wallet is moved into it (2500SC) and the leftover from the genesis block (about 80000 coins). Sorry if you think this is a secret it's not.

SC1 had 30000 premined for bounties, currently the CPF has ~115000 SC, and you think this is a big deal? GG/TBX has 7 million premined coins, do you have threads pointing out the scam factor of this? You should have about 70x more posts about it if you're being fair. Please link me to them.

All the dealings with CPF will be written on the website as part of public policy, there is a block chain remember, everything is recorded.

By your design, the 12m trickles to Coin Hunter.  Your claim of 'Oh I only have 32k' is only after one day.  Your previous mention was that only 5% of 'actual' blocks mined, you made no mention of even/odd differences, super nodes, 13m premined, etc.

Lolcust has been consistent from the beginning.  Both of his chains have a 'gimmick' which is the 'laundry'. Lolcust hasn't paid others to spread FUD about other chains.  Lolcust hasn't shut down one chain only to have it re-emerge under completely different parameters. Having premined blocks isn't defacto scam.  What is scammy is the way you've purposefully lied about critical information.

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October 12, 2011, 04:05:37 AM
 #17

Haha yeah what a scammer I am. Spending weeks and working 12+ hour days to make a better product, implementing CPU mining so more people can generate SC, improving security and performance.

If I was a scammer you know what I would do? I'd release a slightly modified chain which does barely anything different (TBX/GG) premine 7 million coins and not really tell anyone about it until some days later. That requires only maybe an hour of my life vs the 1000+ hours I've invested already.

Please get some perspective.

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simonk83
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October 12, 2011, 04:06:15 AM
 #18

What a joke.   Never mind, it'll die (again) soon enough when people cotton on.  It's only being mined now as people are greedy and want to make sure they're "in", just in case.   The decline has already begun.
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October 12, 2011, 04:08:38 AM
 #19

Did you really create the next crypto-anarchist currency of the future by saying, "All everyone has to do is trust the rich!" Really?
CoinHunter
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October 12, 2011, 04:09:42 AM
 #20

This is the same reasoning Lolcust used for why we should trust him with 7.7 mil premined. I can't trust Lolcust with that, and I can't trust these million sc holders. Sure, they don't want the coin to fail, but why can't they use their power to make more coins slowly? It won't kill the coin, but it will build their wealth. So now tell me why I should trust them.

Except I don't have 7 million coins, and I've already stated that it isn't "my coins" , it's every SC supporters. Just because I have the wallet doesn't mean much at all in my eyes. You can not believe that, it's your right.

So what happens after many years of this and all the trusted million dollar accounts are now less than a million dollar because they've transfered enough of their wealth to you and your CPF? Will you then become the sole trusted user and get to control everything? Nice! I'm looking forward to that.

CPF can obviously fund the account holders back to positive territory if needed. It's also one way to stop an attacker getting grip of one of the trusted wallets, if they do they can't spend it any other way than protecting the network.

By the time we have real millionaires we will have some very tight guidelines and recommendations for them to increase their security. Running on multiple nodes, block proxying, etc. The attacks I'm looking to defend against are government (the biggest) related ones. If we can defeat them everyone else will have no hope.

Now that SC2.0 is secure from this perspective I'll be able to argue with businesses that they can adopt SolidCoin as it's secure from all viable threats unlike all the other alternatives. I wasn't able to do this with BTC or SC1.

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