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Author Topic: Corruption and prejudgment of the moderator Xandry  (Read 814 times)
PnP
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August 07, 2018, 09:34:03 PM
 #41

Rules also state that account sales are discouraged - which implies that there is a potential consequence.

No one is asking for encouragement. Just leave sellers alone.

Discourage definition : prevent or try to prevent (something) by showing disapproval or creating difficulties.

Create difficulties for these scammers, which are quite a lot here.
If the seller cheated, then such a seller should be punished.
But punishment can not be just because I'm a salesman.
Is it logical?
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August 07, 2018, 09:40:22 PM
 #42

Rules also state that account sales are discouraged - which implies that there is a potential consequence.

No one is asking for encouragement. Just leave sellers alone.

Discourage definition : prevent or try to prevent (something) by showing disapproval or creating difficulties.

Create difficulties for these scammers, which are quite a lot here.
If the seller cheated, then such a seller should be punished.
But punishment can not be just because I'm a salesman.
Is it logical?

If you sell someone a gun - in a lot of countries you will be charged as an accessory to the crime that is committed with the gun.

If you sell an account and get caught - then you ignored the "discouraged" part of the rule.
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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August 07, 2018, 09:45:35 PM
 #43


Do not do fudge. There are clear rules.

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

In the Russian section, the rules look like this:

Quote
18. Имeть нecкoлькo yчётныx зaпиceй нe зaпpeщeнo, кaк и зaнимaтьcя иx пpoдaжeй, тeм нe мeнee пpoдaвaть yчётныe зaпиcи нe peкoмeндyeтcя.2

Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

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August 07, 2018, 09:48:01 PM
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 #44

Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

If it were prohibited you'd be banned. But it's not prohibited so you're not banned, you just have an "advisory" on your trust profile.

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August 07, 2018, 09:48:09 PM
 #45

I disagree. Fraud is where there is "mens rea". (Definition: The intention or knowledge of wrongdoing, as opposed to the action or conduct).

They were using the merit system in a different way to it was intended but not without the same goals of reducing spam in mind.

Really? Spam is over? Don't be fool, if there is way using something for profit they will do it.

Have you seen some of the other local boards ? The Russian section is extremely tidy in comparison.

Are you kidding? Russian section still contains ~3,400,000 posts that's 10 times more than any other local board. I would say more, that many old russian users left this forum due to permanent spam and bots.
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August 07, 2018, 09:53:45 PM
 #46

Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

If it were prohibited you'd be banned. But it's not prohibited so you're not banned, you just have an "advisory" on your trust profile.

No, you do not read me. I wrote to you in English that they do not discuss you or me here. My profile does not need anybody's recommendations.  Wink
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August 07, 2018, 09:58:50 PM
 #47

I would say more, that many old russian users left this forum due to permanent spam and bots.

And also because of the stupid merit system. Merit - fraud!
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August 07, 2018, 09:59:59 PM
 #48

Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

If it were prohibited you'd be banned. But it's not prohibited so you're not banned, you just have an "advisory" on your trust profile.

No, you do not read me. I wrote to you in English that they do not discuss you or me here. My profile does not need anybody's recommendations.  Wink

Perhaps you shouldn't post anything. Because if you don't create a conversation then you won't get any replies.  Grin

I disagree. Fraud is where there is "mens rea". (Definition: The intention or knowledge of wrongdoing, as opposed to the action or conduct).

They were using the merit system in a different way to it was intended but not without the same goals of reducing spam in mind.

Really? Spam is over? Don't be fool, if there is way using something for profit they will do it.

Have you seen some of the other local boards ? The Russian section is extremely tidy in comparison.

Are you kidding? Russian section still contains ~3,400,000 posts that's 10 times more than any other local board. I would say more, that many old russian users left this forum due to permanent spam and bots.

Bots and spam - caused by account farmers that sell the accounts to other users for bounty and signature campaigns or use the farmed accounts themselves for bounty or signature campaigns.

The Russian section was the first local board to be introduced and by far the largest and most active local board. I feel sympathy for the moderators.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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August 07, 2018, 10:05:56 PM
 #49

Bots and spam - caused by account farmers that sell the accounts to other users for bounty and signature campaigns or use the farmed accounts themselves for bounty or signature campaigns.

Yeah or use merit for promotion new accounts. Is that right?  Wink
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August 07, 2018, 10:11:28 PM
 #50

Perhaps you shouldn't post anything. Because if you don't create a conversation then you won't get any replies.  Grin

I gave a vivid example of how merites are pumped. But I did not receive a sensible answer. But I received accusations that I am a seller.
Or in the world of white people, the seller has no right to speak?  Grin
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August 07, 2018, 10:14:09 PM
 #51

Bots and spam - caused by account farmers that sell the accounts to other users for bounty and signature campaigns or use the farmed accounts themselves for bounty or signature campaigns.

Yeah or use merit for promotion new accounts. Is that right?  Wink

I think if you read the link I posted much earlier - it was all discussed there. Using merit to reward spam reporters is no longer done by the Russian moderators because account farmers were abusing that method of awarding merit.

It was not the moderators or merit source that were abusing it - it were the account farmers that were manipulating the system.

It is generally account farmers and bounty chasers that complain about the merit system. They are the only ones disadvantaged by it.

The merit system was designed to disadvantage them - the complaints prove the merit system works as intended.

Perhaps you shouldn't post anything. Because if you don't create a conversation then you won't get any replies.  Grin

I gave a vivid example of how merites are pumped. But I did not receive a sensible answer. But I received accusations that I am a seller.
Or in the world of white people, the seller has no right to speak?  Grin

I gave a comprehensive explanation here:

I didn't repeat the whole thread where it was discussed  - but I did post a link to it so you could read what was already discussed at length without having to repeat the whole entire conversation again.


My Russian is not good but I do read a lot in the Russian topic section. But I live in an English speaking country. I can assure you that there is a noticable difference in the English grammar used by esmanthra and by xandry. They are definitely not the same person.

Xandry is a merit source and will have given merit to mainly Russian speaking topics which would link him to almost every Russian account.
With a merit source there are always going to be people that they merit more because they like their work.
The deleted/off topic posts were explained here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330297.0




We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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August 07, 2018, 10:26:43 PM
 #52


It is generally account farmers and bounty chasers that complain about the merit system. They are the only ones disadvantaged by it.

Let it be known to you that the "farmers of accounts" do not need merits for nothing.
What can not be said about informers and other rascals.
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August 07, 2018, 10:33:35 PM
 #53


It is generally account farmers and bounty chasers that complain about the merit system. They are the only ones disadvantaged by it.

Let it be known to you that the "farmers of accounts" do not need merits for nothing.
What can not be said about informers and other rascals.

Perhaps you can explain that in further detail. This will be interesting.

Account farmers don't need merit to rank up their accounts so they can sell it for more ? So they can use those accounts in bounty and signature campaigns ?

What do the "rascals" and "informers" need the merits for ?

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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August 07, 2018, 10:44:09 PM
 #54

I think if you read the link I posted much earlier - it was all discussed there. Using merit to reward spam reporters is no longer done by the Russian moderators because account farmers were abusing that method of awarding merit.

I am sure that they stopped doing it after mdayonliner's topic. At least the last one was 29 june. But several persons have got a lot of merit using this way. Personally I consider it like a fraud.

Quote
the merit system works as intended.

There is no ideal system. Personally I see some speculations in such case.
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August 07, 2018, 10:44:37 PM
 #55


It is generally account farmers and bounty chasers that complain about the merit system. They are the only ones disadvantaged by it.

Let it be known to you that the "farmers of accounts" do not need merits for nothing.
What can not be said about informers and other rascals.

Perhaps you can explain that in further detail. This will be interesting.

Account farmers don't need merit to rank up their accounts so they can sell it for more ? So they can use those accounts in bounty and signature campaigns ?

What do the "rascals" and "informers" need the merits for ?

Ordinary sellers act as intermediaries. Farmers, those who create their own accounts, it is easier to buy merit. theymos, in fact, created an additional black market in order to sell merits.

Informers are looking for potential sellers or buyers, in the hope of receiving merits. That is, they do not bring any objective benefit.
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August 07, 2018, 10:53:51 PM
 #56


Ordinary sellers act as intermediaries. Farmers, those who create their own accounts, it is easier to buy merit. Or is the fact that Teymos, without knowing it himself, created an additional black market for Merit sales, is news for you too?

Snitchers are those who seek out sellers or buyers and complain about giving in the form of a merit.

So what you are saying is that the merit farmers sell merit to the account farmers which sell the accounts to the account sellers.

Just because the "subcontract" the merit farming - the account farmers are still the ones that want the merit.

If it is costing account farmers to by merit then the system is working - it means less accounts and the accounts will cost more.

It means the merit discouragement is working.


I still don't see why the "informers" and other "rascals" want merit - unless they are part of the account farming enterprise.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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August 07, 2018, 11:00:49 PM
 #57

I still don't see why the "informers" and other "rascals" want merit - unless they are part of the account farming enterprise.

They like you are guided by the rules that sales are not recommended.

I'll summarize, and then apparently clumsy translation does not give a complete picture:
The system of extensions works only for the sake of the informers, sellers of merits and accounts, generators of 100500 meaningless messages (I cited an example) and other dubious personalities. Which do not benefit the community. That is, the only beneficiaries are the dregs of the community.
All that is really useful, appeared when the forum consisted of enthusiasts.
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August 07, 2018, 11:22:44 PM
 #58

I am sure that they stopped doing it after mdayonliner's topic. At least the last one was 29 june. But several persons have got a lot of merit using this way. Personally I consider it like a fraud.

There is no ideal system. Personally I see some speculations in such case.

I understand that opinion.

Personally I think it was an experiment with good intention from the moderators. But it had potential for abuse and resulted in "industrial scale" reporting.

It was also flawed in the sense where it was open to abuse by people with bad intent. The moderators saw this and abandoned those methods.

I don't see a problem with trying something to see if it works and when it is pointed out that it had flaws they abandoned it. I think it shows initiative but also shows that they listened to the feedback objectively.

It also should be taken into account that the Ukraine and Russia are known spam locations and Russian trolls are among the worlds best.

With just two moderators on the largest local language board they have a big workload.


We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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August 07, 2018, 11:27:02 PM
 #59

Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

If it were prohibited you'd be banned. But it's not prohibited so you're not banned, you just have an "advisory" on your trust profile.

No, you do not read me. I wrote to you in English that they do not discuss you or me here. My profile does not need anybody's recommendations.  Wink

Yet you're the one asking right here in this thread to

leave sellers alone

You (and other sellers) have the freedom to sell accounts and other members have the freedom to comment on your behavior. If you don't like this form of discouragement - it seems to be working.

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August 07, 2018, 11:35:33 PM
 #60

Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

If it were prohibited you'd be banned. But it's not prohibited so you're not banned, you just have an "advisory" on your trust profile.

No, you do not read me. I wrote to you in English that they do not discuss you or me here. My profile does not need anybody's recommendations.  Wink

Yet you're the one asking right here in this thread to

leave sellers alone

You (and other sellers) have the freedom to sell accounts and other members have the freedom to comment on your behavior. If you don't like this form of discouragement - it seems to be working.

Where did you get that I do not like the comments? I'm just wondering what will change if you tell everyone that I'm a salesman? If this is so open information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_secret

I stressed that the topic is not about me. But if you want to leave a response, then I do not mind. It's your right.
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