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Author Topic: The PASCAZI Retaliation, fighting opportunists worldwide and why we applied for  (Read 3774 times)
hxtop
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October 14, 2011, 06:28:24 PM
 #1

TOKYO, JAPAN - October 14, 2011 - As the owner of the largest Bitcoin trading platform, Mt.Gox, we at Tibanne K.K feel obliged to step up and oppose opportunists around the world from trademarking the concept and term “Bitcoin”, which would severely limit the ability of those in the Bitcoin community to freely enjoy and use our beloved Crypto-currency.

As some in the community may be aware, back in July Michael Pascazi, a law attorney in upstate New York started to file for ownership of the Bitcoin trademark. This took place not only in the US but in other key countries like France and Japan where trademark laws favour the party who is “first-to-file”, rather than the first actual user of the term.

While Michael Pascazi apparently acquiesced in his attempt to trademark Bitcoin in the U.S. (thanks to a stricter “first-to-use” trademarking system), he has since submitted a claim in France through his wife Celine Mouchon Pascazi, where Pascazi has far stronger legal standing as the first entity to apply.

In reaction, we at Tibanne K.K in Japan have started legal proceedings in the hopes of opposing this filing in France, at a European level as well as in in other countries across the world.

The Pascazis' stated intention is to profit from these trademarks, which would hamper Bitcoin enthusiasts, businesses and the community as a whole on a global basis in the free use and promotion of Bitcoin. Tibanne K.K will oppose this and any other "greed based" trademark application, in order to prevent self-serving attempts to profit from Bitcoin through spurious legal suits, and keep the term “Bitcoin” free for all.

We would like to use this opportunity to formally announce that all trademarks related to the term “Bitcoin” filed for and obtained by Tibanne K.K will be made freely available to anyone to use for whatever purpose whatsoever, whether that be for non-profit or commercial endeavours.

We will keep you apprised on these matters as soon as updates become available.

Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.

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October 14, 2011, 06:29:12 PM
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china BTC web http://www.hxtop.com

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October 14, 2011, 06:37:04 PM
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Go mtgox! Stop them!
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October 14, 2011, 07:42:00 PM
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I know some are skeptical of MtGox's motives - many don't like that MtGox is trying to register trademarks.

However, I REALLY appreciate them stepping up and paying the money to do this. It is a huge service to the community to have MtGox willing to spend some of their profits on these types of fights. Kudos to them.

And to anyone who is suspicious - consider that if MtGox ever tried to corner the market by using its Bitcoin trademarks in a detrimental way, the community would drop them like a stone. It would be fully against MtGox's self-interest to so clearly abandon the trust of its userbase.

So, MtGox - thank you for fighting the good fight and good luck with these efforts.
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October 14, 2011, 09:34:51 PM
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TOKYO, JAPAN - October 14, 2011 - As the owner of the largest Bitcoin trading platform, Mt.Gox, we at Tibanne K.K feel obliged to step up and oppose opportunists around the world from trademarking the concept and term “Bitcoin”, which would severely limit the ability of those in the Bitcoin community to freely enjoy and use our beloved Crypto-currency.

HOW YOU THINK THIS idea?

  Will you have my babies?! ;p  Love the idea, especially since it is very close to what I was trying to poke the community to do back in the original Pascuzzy thread...

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
casascius
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October 14, 2011, 09:38:17 PM
 #6

If MtGox will notarize and publish the press release stating that it formally intends to freely license the Bitcoin trademark for the usage we all expect it to mean, then I won't have a problem with them having that sort of trademark.  And then PGP sign the hash of the PDF file they publish of the document.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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October 16, 2011, 02:51:12 PM
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If MtGox will notarize and publish the press release stating that it formally intends to freely license the Bitcoin trademark for the usage we all expect it to mean, then I won't have a problem with them having that sort of trademark.  And then PGP sign the hash of the PDF file they publish of the document.

Where is MtGox's free & open trademark license? They have trademark apps pending around the world. Post your license here MtGox for the world to see.  A PGP sign of a hashed PDF is not good enough. No jury will understand that when it comes time to enforce. Your lawyers know better too. Post a free (make it US$1 or 1€ or 100¥, or 0.3BTC, so it's a legal contract), unlimited, & perpetual license, for each of us to fill in our name, sign, and return with our token payment. What are you waiting for?

Jimmy
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October 16, 2011, 03:05:09 PM
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MtGox's press release says:

". . . [A]ll trademarks related to the term “Bitcoin” filed for and obtained by Tibanne K.K will be made freely available to anyone to use for whatever purpose whatsoever, whether that be for non-profit or commercial endeavours."

This ain't worth a sh^t without an enforceable trademark license. These are big boys with lots of cash, and lawyers around the world. Where is the license for us all?

Jimmy
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October 16, 2011, 06:17:02 PM
 #9

Hi

I have two concerns:
What if MtGox ownership changes? I would like to see the name BitCoin be released to the public domain so any later owner of MtGox will have a problem changing that policy.

(The OP has 8 posts. Who is it? I couldn't find a press releases section on MtGox.com. Would be happy to see it there, too.)

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October 16, 2011, 06:33:39 PM
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Hi

I have two concerns:
What if MtGox ownership changes? I would like to see the name BitCoin be released to the public domain so any later owner of MtGox will have a problem changing that policy.

(The OP has 8 posts. Who is it? I couldn't find a press releases section on MtGox.com. Would be happy to see it there, too.)

License should be valid on successors and assigns.
Here is link to press release. https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111014.html

Jimmy
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October 16, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
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License should be valid on successors and assigns.
Here is link to press release. https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111014.html

Thanx for the link.
I'm no native speaker and I don't understand what exactly "License should be valid on successors and assigns." means but I read it as "successors of today's MtGox owners may use the IP titles however they please." Anyway I would feel best if the IP stuff would be handed over to some non profit organisation. If Gox runs bankrupt they can't decide about their IP anymore so better give it to some other entity before.

And please, I'm not ranting about how you handle stuff. I'm happy you stepped up for bitcoin and have full trust in MtGox' best intents. In the end I guess even having to switch to TibCoin or any other name would not really harm the project. Screw those IP fraudsters.

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October 16, 2011, 08:21:11 PM
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License should be valid on successors and assigns.
Here is link to press release. https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111014.html

Thanx for the link.
I'm no native speaker and I don't understand what exactly "License should be valid on successors and assigns." means but I read it as "successors of today's MtGox owners may use the IP titles however they please." Anyway I would feel best if the IP stuff would be handed over to some non profit organisation. If Gox runs bankrupt they can't decide about their IP anymore so better give it to some other entity before.

And please, I'm not ranting about how you handle stuff. I'm happy you stepped up for bitcoin and have full trust in MtGox' best intents. In the end I guess even having to switch to TibCoin or any other name would not really harm the project. Screw those IP fraudsters.

Successors & assigns means whoever comes after MtGox or whoever MtGox xfers the mark to in the future.
Good thought on Bankruptcy. That too can be addressed by their smart lawyers.

Ever think that perhaps MtGox points you to one mark by a third party while they round up the rest? Diversion perhaps? Remember Pearl Harbor. Japan talking peace with USA while the fleet steaming toward Pearl. Why should MtGox hold all the marks? What happens if MtGox sends cease and desist letters to the other exchanges or sues to shut them down? What will commission rate be then?

I say boycott MtGox until they hand out free and open trademark licenses to all comers.

Jimmy
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October 16, 2011, 10:57:49 PM
 #13

if gox does this, they will lose more through reputation losses than they can win from the other platforms. *don't* boycott gox! they are the good guys (for now)

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October 16, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
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According to Adam's post on reddit their lawyers haven't advised them about defending trademarks.

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[–]gvsteve 5 points 21 hours ago
My understanding of trademark law is that you can't trademark something and then allow anyone to use it. You are required to defend your trademark or you lose it. But maybe that's just in the US. Does anyone know the legal details of this?
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[–]MtGox_Adam 4 points 18 hours ago
If this is true, it's the first we (and our lawyers) have heard of it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/lbthr/mtgox_the_pascazi_retaliation/

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 17, 2011, 02:59:57 AM
 #15

Dear all

Thank you very much for your support in this matter and we are glad to see that most of you trust that we are here doing this first and foremost for the community!

That said, there are of course concerns about the integrity and enforceability of our promise to you to make the trademark free and open, and we understand your hesitance to believe in our good intent at this time. While unfortunately we cannot disclose how the actual process of making the trademark open will work at this point, you will within a few months see how any Bitcoin related trademarks we acquire will be protected and available for all without limitation.

We are really looking forward to this new adventure and we are sure that you will all enjoy it, freely!

Mt.Gox : The Leading International Bitcoin Exchange.
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October 17, 2011, 03:03:08 AM
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Dear all

We are really looking forward to this new adventure and we are sure that you will all enjoy it, freely!

  Not as much as I would enjoy K.K. Tibane having my babies! ;p
 

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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October 17, 2011, 03:19:31 AM
 #17

Dear all

Thank you very much for your support in this matter and we are glad to see that most of you trust that we are here doing this first and foremost for the community!

That said, there are of course concerns about the integrity and enforceability of our promise to you to make the trademark free and open, and we understand your hesitance to believe in our good intent at this time. While unfortunately we cannot disclose how the actual process of making the trademark open will work at this point, you will within a few months see how any Bitcoin related trademarks we acquire will be protected and available for all without limitation.

We are really looking forward to this new adventure and we are sure that you will all enjoy it, freely!

With all due respect, I think I speak accurately for the community when I say I don't think we want to wait months to find out what your plans are.  The name Bitcoin isn't your property, and you have no more right to monopolize it than does Mr. Pascazi.

The urgency is that if we are to stand idle and allow your trademark applications to succeed without exercising our legal rights to oppose them, merely on the grounds we think you'll do the right thing, then we're legally tying our own hands and turning a blind eye to the possibility that you, or perhaps more likely, your eventual successors, might pull something like a Pascazi.

I think it would be appropriate if, for example, you requested donations toward the cause, because clearly it isn't free.  And taking your word at face value, I applaud what you're doing.  But your word as a forum posting means nothing to a court, and that's unfortunately where it counts.  Providing anything less than a legally sound licensing agreement to benefit the public - one that explicitly grants an irrevocable right to use the term to mean Bitcoin as we now know it - is to play us the same way Pascazi's playing.  At the very least, you guys need to be PGP-signing these claims that your intent is to open these marks to all, and I mean that as a very low least.  I think it's very reasonable that your intent to license these marks freely to us as a community be provable by any interested party, and thus far it is not.


Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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October 17, 2011, 03:42:27 AM
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With all due respect, I think I speak accurately for the community when I say I don't think we want to wait months to find out what your plans are.

Hi Casascius,

Unfortunately things are not "that" easy when it comes to trademarking (apply and/or oppose), time is a virtue here. For example it will likely take up to 6 month to get the final approval for our trademark. However, our "plans" will be announce sooner than that and from there you will have a clear picture of how things will be done.

To add to this, if we go against our word we will have the whole community against us. It would be irresponsible on every level for us to enforce royalties or other terms on the ™ later on, which is why we're taking steps to make sure this isn't possible even in the event Mt.Gox is sold.

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October 17, 2011, 03:50:13 AM
 #19

Actually, I think the best outcome would be if mtgox applied for and was rejected the trademark.  That would establish a clear ruling in the court systems that bitcoin cannot be trademarked and is free for anyone to use.  I would hope that mtgox would recognize that this is the best possible outcome and would be supportive of efforts to oppose the trademark.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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October 17, 2011, 03:59:13 AM
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With all due respect, I think I speak accurately for the community when I say I don't think we want to wait months to find out what your plans are.

Hi Casascius,

Unfortunately things are not "that" easy when it comes to trademarking (apply and/or oppose), time is a virtue here. For example it will likely take up to 6 month to get the final approval for our trademark. However, our "plans" will be announce sooner than that and from there you will have a clear picture of how things will be done.

To add to this, if we go against our word we will have the whole community against us. It would be irresponsible on every level for us to enforce royalties or other terms on the ™ later on, which is why we're taking steps to make sure this isn't possible even in the event Mt.Gox is sold.

You people announced your intentions 3 months ago on the French section of this board. 3 months ago! And again 3 days ago. Why announce that which you all won't deliver? Haven't you all engaged in deceptive business practices extending into the USA and EU? Your press release looks like a diversion. Draw attention to one country, France, while you secure marks in all the rest. The " trust me " mantra is a nice touch. Bernie Madoff said that as well. How did that work out for his clients?

Jimmy
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