The only one piece of legit FUD....

[spooderman]

The only thing that worries me about bitcoin is its scalability - this 7 transactions a second thing. Is this just an average or a hard limit?

This is a very obvious problem.

How can we scale up? Can an adjustment be made to the mining process? Somehow utilize the vast amount of power we have to circumvent this problem?

[spooderman]

And just to point out, everything else in the spec forums about gox, chinese, russia, regulation, etc is all minor and concerns me in no way.

[Rannasha]

The transaction limit of 7 tps comes from the maximum blocksize of 1 MB. This maximum can be increased without too much trouble if the need arises.

[spooderman]

Oh ok *deletes post*

Lol, genuinely? What would th implications of doing this be? Just a huger blockchain for everyone to download?

[Barek]

Oh ok *deletes post*

Lol, genuinely? What would th implications of doing this be? Just a huger blockchain for everyone to download?

Yep, though it is the least inspired solution. Off-chain transactions would also reduce the load.

That said, we are at roughly 1 transaction per second atm.

[franky1]

Oh ok *deletes post*

Lol, genuinely? What would th implications of doing this be? Just a huger blockchain for everyone to download?

at the moment a 1mb block calculates to a 52gb blockchain per year. . if and only if the whole 1mb cap was filled with data.

but with bitcoin entering its 5th year, the entire blockchain sits at under half of 52gb, which over 5 years averages out as only 10% utilised. so until we see more blocks being fully filled up, then the 7tx/s is not an issue.

if you would like to learn a more prominent issue that does affect us today, which should not affect us for many decades. then research into mining pool scripts.

right now 25btc for an average 10 minutes worth of work is ample. yet miners greed is demanding people pay a fee on the transactions, to such an extent that pools coded by Luke Jr are now ignoring a majority of fee free transactions.

Luke Jr posted that the eligius pool only allows 1 unpaid transaction per block.

the way to imagine it is the railway network. where there is 10 carriages, 1 carriage for first class passengers and 9 for coach class. they only allow one coach class passenger on per train. the other coach passengers have to wait for a different companies train to arrive at the station to get onboard.

translation:
with 10% of a block being filled by fee paying transactions, and although there is room for 90% of a block for everything else. eligius only allow 1 transaction without a premium.

it does not cost a rail company or a mining pool anymore to have a full train/block, but its done to force people.. yes people, you and me. to pay more just to get accepted.

miners should not be demanding more value via transaction fee, they should however demand more value by hoarding their reward and getting better value on exchanges

[MrPiggles]

How much do they make in fees per average block?

[spooderman]

Oh ok *deletes post*

Lol, genuinely? What would th implications of doing this be? Just a huger blockchain for everyone to download?

at the moment a 1mb block calculates to a 52gb blockchain per year. . if and only if the whole 1mb cap was filled with data.

but with bitcoin entering its 5th year, the entire blockchain sits at under half of 52gb, which over 5 years averages out as only 10% utilised. so until we see more blocks being fully filled up, then the 7tx/s is not an issue.

if you would like to learn a more prominent issue that does affect us today, which should not affect us for many decades. then research into mining pool scripts.

right now 25btc for an average 10 minutes worth of work is ample. yet miners greed is demanding people pay a fee on the transactions, to such an extent that pools coded by Luke Jr are now ignoring a majority of fee free transactions.

Luke Jr posted that the eligius pool only allows 1 unpaid transaction per block.

the way to imagine it is the railway network. where there is 10 carriages, 1 carriage for first class passengers and 9 for coach class. they only allow one coach class passenger on per train. the other coach passengers have to wait for a different companies train to arrive at the station to get onboard.

translation:
with 10% of a block being filled by fee paying transactions, and although there is room for 90% of a block for everything else. eligius only allow 1 transaction without a premium.

it does not cost a rail company or a mining pool anymore to have a full train/block, but its done to force people.. yes people, you and me. to pay more just to get accepted.

miners should not be demanding more value via transaction fee, they should however demand more value by hoarding their reward and getting better value on exchanges

:O shocking, I did not know this, and I mine at eligius. This feels contradictory to the very nature of bitcoin. Time to go over to their page and have a word.

[Holliday]

right now 25btc for an average 10 minutes worth of work is ample. yet miners greed is demanding people pay a fee on the transactions, to such an extent that pools coded by Luke Jr are now ignoring a majority of fee free transactions.

The transition from block reward to transaction fees should be smooth. Hopefully transaction fees become an increasing part of the block reward before the next halving.  

I see no problem with miners setting their own fee rules.

The greater problem lies in the fact that there are very few actual miners, most people are just selling their hashing power to huge miners (pool operators).

[Holliday]

miners should not be demanding more value via transaction fee, they should however demand more value by hoarding their reward and getting better value on exchanges

Assuming all miners are interested in exchanging bitcoins for fiat.

[dreamspark]

There should be no reason why a miner doesn't include non-fee transactions IF there is room in the block which as explained is the case with nearly every current block. It isn't hard to give priority to fee-paid transactions but fill the block with all others.

Most people mining don't know/ don't care that that is the system their hashing power is going towards. This is one of the huge problems with massive mining pools.

[Holliday]

There should be no reason why a miner doesn't include non-fee transactions IF there is room in the block which as explained is the case with nearly every current block. It isn't hard to give priority to fee-paid transactions but fill the block with all others.

Yes, that's nice and all, but ultimately it's the miners decision. They've invested time and hardware and they should choose which transaction they want to process.

I, personally, would do exactly as you say and prioritize fee paying transactions over others, but still fill my blocks if possible. Yet, I wouldn't force my choices on others.

[spooderman]

There should be no reason why a miner doesn't include non-fee transactions IF there is room in the block which as explained is the case with nearly every current block. It isn't hard to give priority to fee-paid transactions but fill the block with all others.

Yes, that's nice and all, but ultimately it's the miners decision. They've invested time and hardware and they should choose which transaction they want to process.

I, personally, would do exactly as you say and prioritize fee paying transactions over others, but still fill my blocks if possible. Yet, I wouldn't force my choices on others.

you sound like a god-damn crazy commie.  what are you one of those liberal-tarians?

[ymer]

My biggest worry is that by the time the rewards are over no one in their right minds will mine at extremely high difficulty for pity transaction fees.

But by the time that happens I will be either dead or rich, so screw it 

[Holliday]

My biggest worry is that by the time the rewards are over no one in their right minds will mine at extremely high difficulty for pity transaction fees.

But by the time that happens I will be either dead or rich, so screw it 

It's true that it will be a long time before the block reward is completely gone, but the block reward will be insignificant much sooner.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term

According to that chart, by 2032 the block reward will be less than a full bitcoin. I plan to still be alive by then!

[pand70]

My biggest worry is that by the time the rewards are over no one in their right minds will mine at extremely high difficulty for pity transaction fees.

But by the time that happens I will be either dead or rich, so screw it 

It's true that it will be a long time before the block reward is completely gone, but the block reward will be insignificant much sooner.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term

According to that chart, by 2032 the block reward will be less than a full bitcoin. I plan to still be alive by then!

20 years in bitcoin time is like 2000 years in normal time.

[Holliday]

My biggest worry is that by the time the rewards are over no one in their right minds will mine at extremely high difficulty for pity transaction fees.

But by the time that happens I will be either dead or rich, so screw it 

It's true that it will be a long time before the block reward is completely gone, but the block reward will be insignificant much sooner.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term

According to that chart, by 2032 the block reward will be less than a full bitcoin. I plan to still be alive by then!

20 years in bitcoin time is like 2000 years in normal time.

What does that have to do with the conversation? Bitcoin either will or will not exist by then. If it does exist, the block reward will be less than a whole bitcoin.

I'm simply pointing out that most of us will still be alive by then (hopefully)!

[Danglebee]

What FUD mean ?

[Holliday]

What FUD mean ?

http://www.internetslang.com/FUD-meaning-definition.asp

[spooderman]

My biggest worry is that by the time the rewards are over no one in their right minds will mine at extremely high difficulty for pity transaction fees.

But by the time that happens I will be either dead or rich, so screw it 

It's true that it will be a long time before the block reward is completely gone, but the block reward will be insignificant much sooner.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term

According to that chart, by 2032 the block reward will be less than a full bitcoin. I plan to still be alive by then!

20 years in bitcoin time is like 2000 years in normal time.

What does that have to do with the conversation? Bitcoin either will or will not exist by then. If it does exist, the block reward will be less than a whole bitcoin.

I'm simply pointing out that most of us will still be alive by then (hopefully)!

nope, it's very well established that most of the people in this community are very old. 75+. The youth just aren't able to grasp new concepts, and paradigm shifts in something as fundamental as money. It takes age and experience to really understand bitcoin. Also, the youth tend to like to keep things exactly as they are. The older you get the more naive and idealistic you become.

God I'm turning into proudhon.