Bitcoin Forum
May 06, 2024, 07:39:57 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Provably fair unknown event time for Bitcoin gambling  (Read 849 times)
maxvon (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
February 23, 2014, 06:46:25 PM
 #1


I have a bitcoin lottery that is still in the prototype stage (bitsplit.it).

I believe that the game will be much more appealing, for certain reasons, if players (and the house) both don't know when the next winner will be chosen.

However, I am having a hard time with coming up with a (feasible) way to prove that the house doesn't know when the pot will split.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
1715024397
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715024397

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715024397
Reply with quote  #2

1715024397
Report to moderator
1715024397
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715024397

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715024397
Reply with quote  #2

1715024397
Report to moderator
Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1715024397
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715024397

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715024397
Reply with quote  #2

1715024397
Report to moderator
1715024397
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715024397

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715024397
Reply with quote  #2

1715024397
Report to moderator
THOUROUGH
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 23, 2014, 08:35:19 PM
 #2


I have a bitcoin lottery that is still in the prototype stage (bitsplit.it).

I believe that the game will be much more appealing, for certain reasons, if players (and the house) both don't know when the next winner will be chosen.

However, I am having a hard time with coming up with a (feasible) way to prove that the house doesn't know when the pot will split.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.



live feed of the draw is the best i've come up with...:-)
jimhsu
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 264


View Profile
February 23, 2014, 11:42:21 PM
 #3

Random.org offers JSON data that can be verified: https://api.random.org/verify

In beta until June 2014, when it'll no longer be free (apparently)

Dans les champs de l'observation le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparé
Shahrukh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
February 24, 2014, 01:08:10 PM
 #4

You posted exactly same thread on bitcoin.stackexchange.com I am confused that you used word Provably in the title on both sites are you intentionally writing provably or its copy paste job ? or is there a word provably which I am not aware of ?

I turned everyone down Sad Sorry for that
wheatstone
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
February 24, 2014, 09:34:24 PM
 #5

or is there a word provably which I am not aware of ?

"Provably" is the adverb form of provable, meaning something which can be proven.

Ricke
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 164
Merit: 100


View Profile
February 24, 2014, 09:59:47 PM
 #6

You could draw a winner as soon as the newest Bitcoin block hash contains a certain sequence.

Verkaufe Bitcoin gegen Bargeld (Wuppertal und Düsseldorf, Handel im öffenlichen Raum, z.B. bei McDonalds), privat zu privat und völlig anonym. Konditionen im Thread; Individualabsprachen möglich
(Ich mache mit Erstkontakten nur kleinere Handel, weiteres ja nach Kurs, Vertrauen, mein Bedarf, Ermessen und Situation)
roslinpl
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1199


View Profile WWW
February 24, 2014, 10:23:33 PM
 #7

You could draw a winner as soon as the newest Bitcoin block hash contains a certain sequence.

oh yes that would be nice Wink


good luck with your project!


regards!
deepceleron
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512
Merit: 1028



View Profile WWW
February 25, 2014, 09:47:57 AM
 #8

You could draw a winner as soon as the newest Bitcoin block hash contains a certain sequence.

That would be my thinking; however the blockchain doesn't provide a statistically constant rate of blocks, because mining isn't constant. If the goal is to generate on average one "event" per day or per week, it will still take manual intervention if the Bitcoin hashrate is increasing or decreasing, or above or below the difficulty; the actual hashrate cannot be determined to make it fair.

In addition, a criteria that may happen on average once per week (such as block hash mod 1008 = 0) has a not-insignificant chance of taking over a month, which may make players restless.

A better solution would be a satoshi-dice style provable, where the random choosing method for transactions sent into the jackpot pool is transaction hash plus site's secret which is pre-published as a hash. For example, if one in 16 bets may win the whole jackpot, etc... If I need to explain more, you shouldn't be running a gambling site.
deepceleron
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512
Merit: 1028



View Profile WWW
February 25, 2014, 10:02:17 AM
 #9

A method I have just devised for a daily jackpot:

First block with UTC timestamp after specified time determines winner,
Users can supply or transaction ID generates their "random" number,
Lowest result of SHA256(block hash + user nonce) wins.

This still allows the house to cheat though, as they can enter their own drawing for free.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!