PBmining - legit?

[ponjava]

Is this site legit?

It's half the price of Cex.io

Actually looks like mining with them might be profitable, hence my suspicion ha

I searched the forum but only found one mention of them

https://i.imgur.com/sjpriVq.png
pb is very useful from cex well I crossed the cex io the pb mining
If you want to take the GHS pb mining effort and you find this number here is accurate as I round off if there is no exact number will protects other players your GHS ;)you must be careful when buying..

[MrPiggles]

They doubled their hash rate in 24 hours.

They won't provide anywhere that shows where their coins are generated.

It's a ponzi

[iflash]

Hmm, could it be that they increased that easily because they used to sell mining gear themselves since 2012 (at least that's what the ebay profile of them suggests)?

As said before I am mining with them at 1 TH/s. I think that's a decent amount to find out without doubt whether it makes sense mining with them or not.  At it stands now, I made 0,014 in about three hours or so. By Sunday I should do something like 0,5 BTC if all goes well.

And surely enough, I will report on this.

If you want to check them out, I would be more than happy if you used my referral link: http://pbmining.com?ref=iflash11 cause every GH/s counts ...

Best


iFlash

[MrPiggles]

Hmm, could it be that they increased that easily because they used to sell mining gear themselves since 2012 (at least that's what the ebay profile of them suggests)?

As said before I am mining with them at 1 TH/s. I think that's a decent amount to find out without doubt whether it makes sense mining with them or not.  At it stands now, I made 0,014 in about three hours or so. By Sunday I should do something like 0,5 BTC if all goes well.

And surely enough, I will report on this.

If you want to check them out, I would be more than happy if you used my referral link: http://pbmining.com?ref=iflash11 cause every GH/s counts ...

Best


iFlash

Payouts don't prove it's not a ponzi unless they look like this

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/21d59e261bdb4da5c318d1ed563f3d526593647eb01ead0364e6de9d660cbe89

If it's just money being transferred from another wallet, and that is always the case, then that is not mining, it's most likely someone paying you back small amounts of your initial investment. A classic ponzi

[iflash]

Hello Piggies,

I am not that skilled with block chain. Can you elaborate on this? How would you determine that it does not come from "freshly" mined coins?

Let's say, they solve a block and get 25 BTC. Those would go to their pocket and they split it up to many addresses, right?

But if they are themselves in a bigger pool, how would that look like?

Sorry for asking noob question, but I am not sure if I understand where you come from.

Best


iFlash

[MrPiggles]

Hello Piggies,

I am not that skilled with block chain. Can you elaborate on this? How would you determine that it does not come from "freshly" mined coins?

Let's say, they solve a block and get 25 BTC. Those would go to their pocket and they split it up to many addresses, right?

But if they are themselves in a bigger pool, how would that look like?

Sorry for asking noob question, but I am not sure if I understand where you come from.

Best


iFlash

Just post a link to your mining wallet address on the blockchain and it will be clear whether it's freshly mined coins, or if they are just moving them around from payments they receive.

see mine here:

https://blockchain.info/address/1ANz1Y6ZR7Fym4tMGzx4Esj4SZp9LCfk59

[TechByPC]

Right now they can just dismiss it without providing evidence, but eventually the onus will come back to PBmining to prove they are not a Ponzi. If they have operations in the US this will certainly be the case. For now I can't imagine someone so wealthy that throwing thousands of dollars after something like this is within the realm of risk/reward.

If PBmining is legit, it will turn a profit for investors at the current rates and at most people's estimate of difficulty. That is unless PBmining knows something we don't about the difficulty (unlikely) or they are actually generating coin with hardware (more likely). However, the rate of reward is not going to be in the get-rich-quick range required of typical Ponzi investors. So what is the catch here? Perhaps just a bunch of unseasoned kids with a few bitcoin who never have seen something like this done with fiat currency and who think they are going to get rich. On the other hand, from their perspective, PBmining gets the return for their mining equipment investment up front rather than having to wait for the gear itself to generate a return and can then accelerate their subsequent re-investments. They cut margins thin and their investors benefit from volume discounts and efficiencies of scale they otherwise could not afford. It makes a lot of sense from a business model as well.

I'm more concerned about PBmining falling in on itself having failed to consider the ongoing profitability of mining/selling new contracts vs. their maintenance. 5 years is a long time to guarantee, and I do not believe for one second that my 1GHs will still be mining 4 years from now. It would be much cheaper for them to just pay my contract out than to run any equipment or maintain an otherwise idle account. That entire year's proceeds will cost more to manage and transmit to me than I will receive.

This is all speculation.

About payments - it is entirely likely they are mining on Eligius or something similar with their equipment and just don't want to be traced, watched and audited by customers. Proving some coins are generated would not disprove a Ponzi just like proving coins are shuffled would not prove a Ponzi. The question is more complex than that, unfortunately.

[MrPiggles]

About payments - it is entirely likely they are mining on Eligius or something similar with their equipment and just don't want to be traced, watched and audited by customers. Proving some coins are generated would not disprove a Ponzi just like proving coins are shuffled would not prove a Ponzi. The question is more complex than that, unfortunately.

I agree, but that alone didn't make me think a ponzi.

I asked how they managed to acquire 15th of mining equipment in days after selling out (for the second time) their 14TH. No answer

I asked if they could post a pic of a single mining rig. No answer.

I asked if they could show us even just a small amount of mined coins. No answer.

It's the combination of everything that makes me suspicious.

And the "Well if you're suspicious then don't bother, we don't need new customers so go elsewhere" which is a classic scammer approach.

Rather than try and gain new customers (why else did they add 15TH to their hardware if not to gain new customers) they simply get defensive and tell me to go away.

The whole thing is sketchy.

[TechByPC]

The whole thing is sketchy.

Agreed. However it's quite possible they had hardware on preorder and were planning this from half a year back or more. I wish they would be more forthcoming also, and until they do I will not invest significantly more. I was thinking of maybe buying an additional 1GHs on every diff change. I think what they are saying though is that there are a lot of "bitcoin millionaires" out there who have more bits than brains and are glad to throw their money at risky things. They don't need people like us in order to succeed.

[iflash]

When you write you add 1 GH/s every diff change - that would mean approx 100 GH/s in a year from now.

I wonder: In a year from now, won't 100 GH/s mine close to nothing? What is the point in mining with 1 GH/s?

Am I missing something?

[sshapiroNJ]

Someone with a link to an obvious ponzi in their sig isn't helping my confidence.

Wife think it's a bad idea anyway, which means if I do it and it turns out to be a ponzi I'll never hear the end of it.

If I do it and it turns out to be a great investment she'll think it was her idea.

Haha! I like the way your wife is thinking! That's great she support you in your interest in BTC as I know a lot of guys who's wives are not interested in Bit-whatever-it-is-called things.

[TechByPC]

When you write you add 1 GH/s every diff change - that would mean approx 100 GH/s in a year from now.

I wonder: In a year from now, won't 100 GH/s mine close to nothing? What is the point in mining with 1 GH/s?

Am I missing something?

Well the point is they are selling it at 5 years, and they are reducing the cost per GHs at every difficulty change, or at least so far as I have been paying attention. At some point my weekly returns will buy another 1GHs+ and I'd probably start taking half the profits and reinvesting the other half. Think of it as an investment and ignore the 1GHs quantity. I put in .008 and I get .009 over the course of 6 months (just say as an example, there's no math behind that). If 1GHs costs .0008 in six months, who cares if I can get .0009 over the course of the next 6 months because the return on investment is the same. Will I be investing .0008 or .008 (10GHs) at that time, or will a better investment come along? A year is too far out to predict what I'll be doing. I will be doing a profitability calculation every time before I buy. Anyone telling you what the difficulty will be at that point is either making some huge guesses or trying to sell you something. 5 years is certainly too far for anyone, even PBmining, to say what mining will be like.

This low budget investment strategy protects me from some of the risk both in PBmining and in the difficulty increases while still offering me increasing rewards over time should I decide at any point to invest more because there is less risk in PBmining than there was before, or their cost calculation has provided me with a larger return on my investment making it worth the risk.

Just my own thoughts on it though. I'm small-time but I'm widely diversified. It's a strategy that guarantees I'll be burned (which I have been), but not have all my eggs in one basket when I do get burned.

[MrPiggles]

is it possible for a pool operator to skim TH from the pool?

say you had a 1PH pool, made up of 500 operators of various gh/th

Do you think the operator could skim a small amount from each operator, without them noticing, and sell it on?

[TechByPC]

is it possible for a pool operator to skim TH from the pool?

say you had a 1PH pool, made up of 500 operators of various gh/th

Do you think the operator could skim a small amount from each operator, without them noticing, and sell it on?

I suspect this happens in a traditional pool or two from time to time, but that's all I'm going to say about that. It would be harder to have this happen at PBmining though because they are paying the theoretical rate of return rather than the varied rate of return that normal mining gear and erlang distributed block finds would provide. It's much easier to skim when users are accustomed to variance in a normal pool. In PBmining I can do a calculation and see my expected return. I would know something is wrong with my calculation or theirs if the numbers didn't agree.

[MrPiggles]

is it possible for a pool operator to skim TH from the pool?

say you had a 1PH pool, made up of 500 operators of various gh/th

Do you think the operator could skim a small amount from each operator, without them noticing, and sell it on?

I suspect this happens in a traditional pool or two from time to time, but that's all I'm going to say about that. It would be harder to have this happen at PBmining though because they are paying the theoretical rate of return rather than the varied rate of return that normal mining gear and erlang distributed block finds would provide. It's much easier to skim when users are accustomed to variance in a normal pool. In PBmining I can do a calculation and see my expected return. I would know something is wrong with my calculation or theirs if the numbers didn't agree.

Isn't that strange in itself that they pay the theoretical rate of return rather than what actually happens?

This guy trying to sell me a 1th miner won't show me a pic of the miner, yet will happily give me 24 hours mining at 1th.

Why on earth would he be able to mine for me, yet not show me a pic? unless he's a skimming pool operator?

I'm just gonna HODL I think.

[TechByPC]

Take the 24 hours first

[Icon]

i posted this on the cex.io thread, thought i would repost here:

Why would you want to do that for 5 years? And by the looks of it you cant sell back your gh/s. And don't forget the constant rise in diff. at the end of 5 years you might make .0000001 a week or something if you are lucky. (o and that you started with like (1Ph/s).

Sure its 1/2 the price of cex right now, but you can sell the gh/s back and make back "some" of your btc. PB, you cant its gone.

Icon

PS

Who will keep an btc address for 5 years anyways, says on web site cant never be changed.

[MrPiggles]

Take the 24 hours first

Already did, earned 0.18

I agreed to buy, said I need 12 hours since I was at work and my 2fa key was at home, in which time btc went from $580-680, he insisted price was still 9.5btc.

Im waiting on the pics of the miner + asked for the new price in btc.

He's said 8btc, but still won't provide pics of the miner. Also offered 1.5 btc less if I don't do escrow 

Somehow thinks sending me .18 btc means I should be safe to send him 8 because clearly he's trustworthy.

He could send .18 to 20 people, 1 of whom sends 8btc and he's still doubled his money.

I half suspect this entire forum is myself, 2 or 3 other people and 1 scammer with hundreds of alts. lol

[cloverme]

i posted this on the cex.io thread, thought i would repost here:

Why would you want to do that for 5 years? And by the looks of it you cant sell back your gh/s. And don't forget the constant rise in diff. at the end of 5 years you might make .0000001 a week or something if you are lucky. (o and that you started with like (1Ph/s).

Sure its 1/2 the price of cex right now, but you can sell the gh/s back and make back "some" of your btc. PB, you cant its gone.

Icon

PS

Who will keep an btc address for 5 years anyways, says on web site cant never be changed.

I don't get the 5 year model myself, even 500 GHs is only going to generate bitcoin dust in a couple years if difficulty keeps rising 27% every 12 days. Are they really going to keep those miners running after a year? Too much power and too expensive to payout is my guess after that long... a year, sure. 5 years? I'd pass...

[iflash]

That's the main point: Difficulty.

If it increases the way it increased lately, there simply is NO WAY AT ALL in making profits through mining. The only person earning are the guys that sell the hardware and I think they do a shitload of money right now.

Once all those orders are finally shipped in spring 2014, there is big chance that diff levels go to the moon.

And then we might see prices for mining collapsing.

It also depends on how many people still want to jump on the mining train.

I think that my 1 TH/s will do fine for about 3 to 5 months. After that, the return will be too little to even be bothered to pay out. By that time I need to earn 8.9 BTC. This will *just* happen if we have a steady 20 to 30 per cent increase. If diff is higher, money will be burned. If lower, I make money.

Let's wait and see.

PS: I made 0,1258 BTC so far (close to one day).