PBmining - legit?

[fivejonnyfive]

Really?  Where?

The Antminer S1 is nearly that cheap, for one thing. I'm sure if you're buying them in bulk you can get a discount as well...

[tempestb]

It's not even close to that cheap for an S1.  Bitmain has them for $2.59 per GH as of right now.  PBMining is mining at $2.20 per GH.  You're saying that PBMining worked out some kind of deal that got them a price lower than that, that factored in the 1100watts per unit power charge and somehow gives them a profit that pays for the management of this operation for a bunch of full time workers? 

Use your head.  It's a scam.

[ChuckBuck]

It's not even close to that cheap for an S1.  Bitmain has them for $2.59 per GH as of right now.  PBMining is mining at $2.20 per GH.  You're saying that PBMining worked out some kind of deal that got them a price lower than that, that factored in the 1100watts per unit power charge and somehow gives them a profit that pays for the management of this operation for a bunch of full time workers? 

Use your head.  It's a scam.

Isn't the Antminer S1 $1.18 per GH at the moment?

[fivejonnyfive]

It's not even close to that cheap for an S1.  Bitmain has them for $2.59 per GH as of right now.  PBMining is mining at $2.20 per GH.  You're saying that PBMining worked out some kind of deal that got them a price lower than that, that factored in the 1100watts per unit power charge and somehow gives them a profit that pays for the management of this operation for a bunch of full time workers? 

Use your head.  It's a scam.

You're entitled to your opinion and I won't try to change it. I will correct your facts though.

The S1 is BTC0.484 per 180gh/s. 0.484/180=BTC.002688888/gh/s
.00268*439=$1.17/gh/s

Draw of the unit is 360 W at the wall - not 1100.

If we were to assume their whole facility were antminers, that would put their total electric consumption per hour as follows:

((TotalHashrate/HashratePerUnit)*WattsPerUnit)/1000

((375500/180)*360)/1000=751

So in a given month thats ((30*24)*751)=540720

I think they said they were in canada: the average electric price in canada (1) for an industrial facility is $.0732/KWh CAD or $.07USD

540720*$.07=$37,850.4 Monthly Power Cost

Per GH that's 37850.4/375500=$0.1008 Cost per month.

Over 5 years that's $0.1008*(12*5)=$6

So - we can deduce that in order to maintain profit, they'll have to upgrade their hardware after a year assuming they are running S1's. But, customers have paid up front. So they have the capital to get new hardware.

Furthermore, since they are charging double the hardware cost, they could buy double the hardware, basically using the customer as a loan for them to build a huge mining farm half of which is mining for them.

Power consumption aside - baseline - they are basically doubling their money on hardware. Further profit can be derived from merged mining. Even further profit can be derived from the fact that their fixed payment calculator accounts for avg 10 minute blocks. As difficulty increase approaches blocks are solved faster, and then when difficulty increase arrives they pay out less. They are mining more than they are paying out. Users, like me, are okay with this because of their guaranteed fixed payout rate.

At 375TH/s they are making about $4,423.36 per month just in NAMECOIN. There's room for profit. Could it be a scam? Sure. Does it scream scam from the hilltops? Nah.

There's a risk involved. There's a risk in pre-ordering hardware.

But if you're going to say it has to be a scam - at least try to back that point up with correct figures.

[tempestb]

If they are buying Antminers (I thought you said S2, it was my mistake) they are unprofitable at your 7 cents a watt in 5 months.  Then they need to buy something else to support the rest of the five year contract that people paid for.

The Antminer prices just fell anyway, and they'd arrive there in a week maybe.  So these estimates aren't even realistic.  PBMining is dropping their prices dynamically based on the current Bitcoin price and allowing people to earn based on time. 

The margins for the Antminer to profit are extremely small.  Do they just have free Internet, AC and a staff to handle the hosting of all these miners with no defective units to stay under these tight margins?

Think about it.  They have a website that basically says that if you purchase from them, you ALWAYS PROFIT more Bitcoin than you spent.  Forget FIAT for a moment.  They are saying that if you spend 1 Bitcoin you're ALWAYS going to get back 1.1 Bitcoin.  (Example estimate, not exact by any means.)

You think that is possible?  Nobody else is able to do it.  Nobody.  Just these guys.  Who have no identities, no proof of miners, who laundry their coins, and flat out don't exist anywhere except for an EBay account which is basically useless.

All they have to do is point to their mining address, or take a picture of their hardware.  Everyone else does.  They don't. 

[jimmothy]

But if you're going to say it has to be a scam - at least try to back that point up with correct figures.

If you're going to defend a scam, at least use realistic calculations. Operating costs involved in running huge mining operations are not limited to electricity alone.

Here is a realistic calculation

375th*2w/gh*1.3pue=975kw*720kwh/month*0.1$/kwh=$70,000/month in electricity

Add another $25,000/month for rent on a warehouse big enough for 1mw worth of hardware and an additional ~$5000 per month for other costs like internet/setup/staff/maintenance

So at least $100,000/month or more than 1/3 of what they mine.

[fivejonnyfive]

I didn't defend a scam. Read my post again. Exact words: "Could it be a scam? Sure."

I merely attempted to debunk bad information. In response I got more bad information.

Lets get more detailed. They claim to be hosted in saskatchewan.

Here's saskatchewan's power costs:
http://www.saskpower.com/wp-content/uploads/saskpower_supplied_transformation_rates.pdf


(14500*.11335)+((540720-14500)*.05952)+27.43=$32991.91

Less than my original calculation. All I'm saying is yes-there is the possibility that this is not a scam.

[jimmothy]

I didn't defend a scam. Read my post again. Exact words: "Could it be a scam? Sure."

I merely attempted to debunk bad information. In response I got more bad information.

Lets get more detailed. They claim to be hosted in saskatchewan.

Here's saskatchewan's power costs:
http://www.saskpower.com/wp-content/uploads/saskpower_supplied_transformation_rates.pdf


(14500*.11335)+((540720-14500)*.05952)+27.43=$32991.91

Less than my original calculation. All I'm saying is yes-there is the possibility that this is not a scam.

You're completely ignoring 75% of the operating costs.

Even at $0.08/kwh it still costs more than $80,000/month.

[tempestb]

I, sadly, feel as thought it'll be proven out as a scam soon enough so there isn't much point in really arguing about it.  I think there is enough information in this thread that a wise person would not invest in PBMining until they disclosed evidence that they are indeed mining.  Since no such evidence exists, it's a complete and total gamble that you'll make your money back from investing with them, let alone profit from it.  Some people have money to lose...

[Majixagi]

It's legit.



Sorry, have a low post count so thought it would make sense to post that.

Looking at risk/reward here: I don't see any spectacular rewards that would justify investing anything at this risk level. There are better investments.

[Syke]

Over 5 years that's $0.1008*(12*5)=$6

You don't see a problem with that? The cost of electricity alone is 3x what they bring in from each customer.

[oztusk]

Over 5 years that's $0.1008*(12*5)=$6

You don't see a problem with that? The cost of electricity alone is 3x what they bring in from each customer.

if you assume that anyone runs antiquated hardware...  which is insane

[Syke]

if you assume that anyone runs antiquated hardware...  which is insane

They already spent the income buying the hardware. How are they going to fund buying new hardware? New customers? Bingo! Ponzi.

[ghur]

if you assume that anyone runs antiquated hardware...  which is insane

They already spent the income buying the hardware. How are they going to fund buying new hardware? New customers? Bingo! Ponzi.

I'm impressed people still think there's hardware.

There has been no indication whatsoever they're actually mining.
Their entire setup is based around hiding where the coins come from.
From the way they allocate "mining rewards" (formula based instead of based on actual blocks mined) to the way they pay out (sending coins through a mixer first).

All they have (and really need for this setup to work) is a website that keeps track of fake hashrates and what to pay out.
They pay out to appear legitimate, and the amount they pay out is only a really small fraction of what a costumer paid to get in.
Then they'll just keep upping their hashrate and sucker new "customers" into their scam, and only pay them fractions of the money they gave em as well.

They're running a ponzi that is sustainable even without a very high rate of new customers.
Which is why they'll keep this scam up for as long as they can.

Hell, even if they intended to be legitimate, actually mining is simply less profitable.
Why take a small profit margin, when you can take a large margin and still be able to pay out all your customers?

[RavenX]

I can't say if they are really mining or not, but, I'm with them for 9 weeks straight and the payments are as advertised, as well as the referral program.

No problem so far in my case.

 

[squashpile]

All I know is I'm getting payed every Sunday. No issues so far.
I have antminers and I have a little GH/s @ pbmining for the hell of it.
It could be a scam or Ponzi, but these people saying it over and over have no more info than anyone else.

We know it could be a scam.. ok

[wayneyoyo]

All I know is I'm getting payed every Sunday. No issues so far.
I have antminers and I have a little GH/s @ pbmining for the hell of it.
It could be a scam or Ponzi, but these people saying it over and over have no more info than anyone else.

We know it could be a scam.. ok

The thing about PBmining is the contract , today your ghz are worth 0.0025 for example after a year it worth less .

[squashpile]

I agree. That's the only reason I like CEX. Dumping FHM contracts.

All I know is I'm getting payed every Sunday. No issues so far.
I have antminers and I have a little GH/s @ pbmining for the hell of it.
It could be a scam or Ponzi, but these people saying it over and over have no more info than anyone else.

We know it could be a scam.. ok

The thing about PBmining is the contract , today your ghz are worth 0.0025 for example after a year it worth less .

[Chillance]

I've been using this site for 2 months now (today exactly even, 15th), and from what I can tell I've gotten more than half of my investment back by now (like 63% I think)... so, sure, even if the value decreases, I'm fine with that. I'm guessing, if this runs for a few more months (or like with this speed, 5-8 weeks), I would have my initial investment back, and then it's only cool to get some for the rest of the time, whatever little that may be... Either way, I didn't invest much so if they disappeared tomorrow, I'm ok with what I've gotten back already.

Seems, they pay from this: 1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3z

"Payday" .. I found that funny...

[Group Bitcoin]

Over 5 years that's $0.1008*(12*5)=$6

You don't see a problem with that? The cost of electricity alone is 3x what they bring in from each customer.

+ it would easily be double that in cooling and a facility able to host 375TH/s for 5 years that's a pretty serious set up you'd need your own sub station running that much power. It's most likely just a case of how long it goes on for now. If you have broke even already it's lucky but it's horrible to think it's probably other peoples money