PBmining - legit?

[cloverme]

I've been told that the fastest way to get a scam shutdown is not so much going to the authorities, but to tell the tax man   It's likely if they are scamming / acting like a ponzi and they're converting BTC into fiat, they probably aren't paying taxes. We all know, the tax man is going to get his due, no matter what. 

All I know is that they're in canada. But if someone has doxxed them, here's the link to report them to ye olde tax man in ye olde canada.

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/bscs/l3adz/internet/initial.do?target=login&lang=en&program=qa

[oztusk]

A few bitcoin will pay off ALL pbm contracts years 2 thru 5.
Why in hell would they waste money running equipment to mine a few satoshi?
The power argument is ABSURD.

[Group Bitcoin]

A few bitcoin will pay off ALL pbm contracts years 2 thru 5.
Why in hell would they waste money running equipment to mine a few satoshi?
The power argument is ABSURD.

The thread asks the question 'PBmining - legit ?'

In terms of mining no. It's clearly impossible to provide what they sell. The fact you seem to think this doesn't matter is ABSURD

[FRNZ]

they do seem really sketchy. but what better options out there?

[cloverme]

A few bitcoin will pay off ALL pbm contracts years 2 thru 5.
Why in hell would they waste money running equipment to mine a few satoshi?
The power argument is ABSURD.

I think he was pointing out that if they had a farm, power would be a considerable factor in their operational expenses.  I think in the end, nothing really adds up with pbmining from a transparency point of view.  I recently had to move my own miners because power got too expensive at the datacenter I was at.  So, power is a factor in mining and profitability.

I don't see a way anyone can make a profit cloud mining, but at least places like cloudhashing.com disclose how and what they mine. Pbmining claims they don't want to dislcose anything out of "privacy" concerns.  

[maok]

I don't see a way anyone can make a profit cloud mining, but at least places like cloudhashing.com disclose how and what they mine. Pbmining claims they don't want to dislcose anything out of "privacy" concerns.  

Pbmining is either a scam or don't want new customers to flood in because they offer the best deal around by a long margin. Cloudhashing on the other hand is stealing money from non-informed people because after 1 year they'll only make half of the bitcoins invested in the Gh contracts.

Cloudhashing is doing robbery in plain sight while Pbmining is either scam or a fair cloud mining company. If you want to get robbed Cloudhashing is the go-to company, if you like risks Pbmining is the choice. Having invested in both I can say now that I should've simply kept the bitcoins.

[dyask]

I don't see a way anyone can make a profit cloud mining, but at least places like cloudhashing.com disclose how and what they mine. Pbmining claims they don't want to dislcose anything out of "privacy" concerns.  

Pbmining is either a scam or don't want new customers to flood in because they offer the best deal around by a long margin. Cloudhashing on the other hand is stealing money from non-informed people because after 1 year they'll only make half of the bitcoins invested in the Gh contracts.

Cloudhashing is doing robbery in plain sight while Pbmining is either scam or a fair cloud mining company. If you want to get robbed Cloudhashing is the go-to company, if you like risks Pbmining is the choice. Having invested in both I can say now that I should've simply kept the bitcoins.

Pbmining is clearly not mining the amount of GH/s they have sold.   The prices are simply impossible for real mining on a 5 year contract.   The prices are in the range of pure virtual mining which could go on for years.   See https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=B.MINE.   

They claim they are actually mining, but I would guess it is a small percent of the GH/s they have sold at this point.   It is likely they are buying the GH/s from someone that is running a virtual mining operation.   Virtual mining isn't a scam if you know that is what you are buying.   However since PBMining claims it is all real mining, that makes this a scam. 

As for new hardware that isn't available yet, like the AntMiner S3, they are about 1.88x that price of that hardware.  At 470 GH/s it pulls .7 W / GH/s.   So it will be possible to buy some hardware in the price range, but that is still about 8kW/h per day to run.   Over 5 years that would be 1,806,750 KWh.  Even if they only pay $.01 / KWh ... That is $18,000 US!    However they have been paying a little higher than the B.Mine pays.   They don't have any money to pay power bills, so it follows they aren't buying power.    Most current mining gear is more expensive and much more power hungry.

Probably the only way the PBMining isn't a scam is if some billionaire if privately funding it to give BTC out to the masses.   Do you really believe that?


 

[maok]

10 months ago the most powerful ASIC miners were producing 15-50 Ghs and consuming same power as todays 1-5 Ths ASIC miners. Its not hard to imagine that in 10 months we'll be talking about 100-200 Ths miners that will consume the same power of today. The prices were also similar couple of thousand dollars so they could be really mining but they won't come with more details of their operation so that they don't attract more customers, or it could be a scam. Its risky business, I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into it without knowing the risks. However I can guarantee you that you'll make at least 50% ROI loss by going with cloudhashing, they are pure thieves with their contract prices.

[dyask]

10 months ago the most powerful ASIC miners were producing 15-50 Ghs and consuming same power as todays 1-5 Ths ASIC miners. Its not hard to imagine that in 10 months we'll be talking about 100-200 Ths miners that will consume the same power of today. The prices were also similar couple of thousand dollars so really they could be really mining but they won't come with more details of their operation so that they don't attract more customers, or it could be a scam. Its risky business, I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into it without knowing the risks. However I can guarantee you that you'll make at least 50% ROI loss by going with cloudhashing, they are pure thieves with their prices.

10 months ago we were no where near state of the art ASICs, that is no longer the case.   There will be gains, but they aren't going to be an order of magnitude gain in 10 months, especially when it comes to power.  I am an electrical engineer so I have some idea what I'm talking about.   Besides at the prices being charged, there isn't any room to replace the miners at PBMining.   They are out of money from the sale in just a couple months if they are actually mining and have access to hardware no one else does.  Reality is much worse.   

Now if they were keeping back 50% of the BTC, maybe, but they aren't.

[Group Bitcoin]

10 months ago the most powerful ASIC miners were producing 15-50 Ghs and consuming same power as todays 1-5 Ths ASIC miners. Its not hard to imagine that in 10 months we'll be talking about 100-200 Ths miners that will consume the same power of today. The prices were also similar couple of thousand dollars so really they could be really mining but they won't come with more details of their operation so that they don't attract more customers, or it could be a scam. Its risky business, I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into it without knowing the risks. However I can guarantee you that you'll make at least 50% ROI loss by going with cloudhashing, they are pure thieves with their prices.

10 months ago we were no where near state of the art ASICs, that is no longer the case.   There will be gains, but they aren't going to be an order of magnitude gain in 10 months, especially when it comes to power.  I am an electrical engineer so I have some idea what I'm talking about.   Besides at the prices being charged, there isn't any room to replace the miners at PBMining.   They are out of money from the sale in just a couple months if they are actually mining and have access to hardware no one else does.  Reality is much worse.  

Now if they were keeping back 50% of the BTC, maybe, but they aren't.

Couldn't agree more. $2 per GH/s doesn't leave room for the electric costs let alone hardware upgrades down the line which would be an impossible business model anyway.

It's clearly established $2 for 5 years mining with no further costs is not possible.

[maok]

Pbmining are keeping a large % of the bitcoin, i'm having troubles getting back the bitcoin I've invested due to the ongoing raise in difficulty, in the next 3 months I'm going to need the block difficulty drop to 5-10% so that I can at least make back my initial btc invested with them so yes they do keep a large % of the mined bitcoin but at least i have a chance of making them back unlike cloudhashing which are scamming people which aren't well informed like I was 4 months ago when I bought 100 ghs from them.

[Group Bitcoin]

Pbmining are keeping a large % of the bitcoin, i'm having troubles getting back the bitcoin I've invested due to the ongoing raise in difficulty, in the next 3 months I'm going to need the block difficulty drop to 5-10% so that I can at least make back my initial btc invested with them so yes they do keep a large % of the mined bitcoin but at least i have a chance of making them back unlike cloudhashing which are scamming people which aren't well informed like I was 4 months ago when I bought 100 ghs from them.

How does that mean they are keeping a large %?

[maok]

Pbmining are keeping a large % of the bitcoin, i'm having troubles getting back the bitcoin I've invested due to the ongoing raise in difficulty, in the next 3 months I'm going to need the block difficulty drop to 5-10% so that I can at least make back my initial btc invested with them so yes they do keep a large % of the mined bitcoin but at least i have a chance of making them back unlike cloudhashing which are scamming people which aren't well informed like I was 4 months ago when I bought 100 ghs from them.

How does that mean they are keeping a large %?

Because the amount of hashrate 956Ths on their website is not the total amount of their entire userbase which is public, they have about a 2:1 ratio of miners working for them only and the rest for their users, I suspect they aren't doing this pro bono so they must keep a % of the mining revenues not including the power costs.

[joshraban76]

To be honest, I'm afraid from them.

I don't trust them.

[dyask]

Pbmining are keeping a large % of the bitcoin, i'm having troubles getting back the bitcoin I've invested due to the ongoing raise in difficulty, in the next 3 months I'm going to need the block difficulty drop to 5-10% so that I can at least make back my initial btc invested with them so yes they do keep a large % of the mined bitcoin but at least i have a chance of making them back unlike cloudhashing which are scamming people which aren't well informed like I was 4 months ago when I bought 100 ghs from them.

How does that mean they are keeping a large %?

Because the amount of hashrate 956Ths on their website is not the total amount of their entire userbase which is public, they have about a 2:1 ratio of miners working for them only and the rest for their users, I suspect they aren't doing this pro bono so they must keep a % of the mining revenues not including the power costs.

When I checked a few days ago they were paying a few percent above what they should be able to mine in theory.   They aren't holding back for the GH/s that you purchased, that was the point.   There isn't any room for them to keep anything back with what they are paying out.   

[Syke]

10 months ago the most powerful ASIC miners were producing 15-50 Ghs and consuming same power as todays 1-5 Ths ASIC miners. Its not hard to imagine that in 10 months we'll be talking about 100-200 Ths miners that will consume the same power of today.

10 months ago Bitfurys did 400 GH/s at 350 watts. The new S3 does 500 GH/s at 400 watts. Your ideas are so far from the facts it's laughable.

[tempestb]

I totally think it's a ponzi or some terrible scheme.  But to play devil's advocate, they could be merge mining other coins and taking the profits from those and not Bitcoin.  Providing all Bitcoin profits to the end user.  They could also realistically acquire bulk hardware purchases cheaper than what we see as retail pricing.  So there may be more breathing room in there.


It's quite possible that PBMining is buying coins from some other dubious source and then distributing them.  For instance, say an American hacker has hundreds of thousands of coins that he hacked or stole.  He can't put these through an exchange because they would get reported to FinCen.  So he has to find another source to give him cash for the coins.  PBMining works out a deal with him for cash for coins at a reduced rate.  PBMining then mixes small batches of coins and distributes to end users.  This isn't a Ponzi, but it does rely on someone selling them coins at a discounted rate.

Another possibility is that PBMining is reselling a Chinese mining outfit's coins.  Right now the banks in China won't allow them to really deal in Bitcoin without going through a lot of work-arounds.  PBMining could work out a simple cash deal, give the mining outfit cash for discounted coins.  But do it in such a way that no red flags are going to go off at the bank.  (Which would happen if they just came out and offered the same deal to the public to get a better rate.)  

Nobody really knows what the game is.  We're assuming it's a ponzi, but it could be anything really.  What it doesn't seem to be is 1ph of mining going on in Canada.  

[dyask]

Now another place starting up even cheaper than PBMining!  http://lunamine.com/contracts/  

However you will have to pay for electricity.   From the home page:

  Largest returns

We have 0% fees. You only pay for electricity and your income is insured against variance

[Mike18feb]

bitcoincloudservices.com is similar to PBMining, with 5 year contracts and no additional fees, and a bit cheaper. Also no details on their mining operations. Big difference though is that they will be working on transparency, first by publishing TXID's on the dashboard page.

What if all these companies are no ponzi...

The mining argument is wobbly anyway. I don't think one single cloud company is actually mapping physical GH's to a user account. I rather think it's all shares. Must be, if they want to live up to the 24/7 mining claim. If your account is mapped to failing hardware then 24/7 mining is no more.

[maok]

, and a bit cheaper.

indeed a Bit cheaper, about 100 Bits cheaper meaning BTC0.0001