UK Banks Strangling Bitcoin Startups -----------

[lnternet]

People need to separate Bitcoin and fiat, the two do not mix. If bitcoin is to triumph it has to replace fiat, you can cut and slice it any which way, but that is the truth.
Bitcoin was created to challenge fiat, not merge with it.

I very much disagree with this. Bitcoin is nothing but an addition to the worlds financial system, it is not independent of it by any means.

[hilariousandco]

They can buy with ease in the UK. With Zipzap etc. it's probably now the easiest place in the world. There are just some pretty hefty premiums to get over.

Whether there'll ever be banks in the UK that do proper business is another matter. There are banks elsewhere in the EU that will take your business.

Yeah, but you can't sell with them, and OP is on about profits from a Bitcoin business. And you don't even need to use zip-zap in the UK, just go directly through Bittylicious.

[mantaxer]

How can you separate something that value is measured against fiat.

Nobody can really mine BTC anymore, if people can't buy it with their personal cash it's useless.

People need to separate Bitcoin and fiat, the two do not mix. If bitcoin is to triumph it has to replace fiat, you can cut and slice it any which way, but that is the truth.

Bitcoin was created to challenge fiat, not merge with it.

It's a serious issue for the Bitcoin community, if people can't buy Bitcoin with ease it will never grow to it's full potential.

[BADecker]

has anybody on this forum ever taken a loan and given  collateral.. ok except maybe 1 person ?

Actually, this is one way to really get rich, if you have the stomach for it. Here's how it works.

Loan money for at least 3 times the value in collateral. Do your due diligence on the value of the collateral property. Check with attorneys to see what laws apply to ownership of the collateral. Write up REAL contracts, and virtually take ownership of the collateral. Make the borrowers pay for all expenses of the due diligence and the contractual paperwork.

If the borrowers fulfill the terms of the loan repayment, take your loan fee, sign off the contracts and loan paperwork (in other words, build a reputation for honesty), and be happy. If they don't, if they mess up in any little way regarding the terms of the loan contract, take the collateral.

The question is, how do we apply this to Bitcoin in a fair way, when Bitcoin values fluctuate so extremely much. If everything were Bitcoin, it wouldn't matter much. But since everything is dollar based, what do we do to keep from losing out shirt when we loan Bitcoins? And how do we make the contracts fair for the borrower when the Bitcoin price might go against him/her?

[FlappySocks]

Need a bank which accepts wire transfers for a UK bitcoin business, preferably a bank in the EU due to the transfer times being instant in some cases because of SEPA.

https://www.fidor.de

Kraken use this bank.

You have to be a German resident, or German business.

[grifferz]

Which banks have you tried, OP? I saw you say HSBC.

Sorry I have no suggestions, but I'm very interested how you get on.

[GodfatherBond]

I have heard that there is a group of tech investors (one of them is friend of mine)which is maybe going to set up new bank in some not yet named EU country and the sole purpose of that bank is to push bitcoin adoption and welcome legal bitcoin businesses and especially work with exchanges. They might have tens millions of capital ready to put behind that institution, but still very draft and takes forever if they proceed... anyway things are happening. They are just a bit carefully as some rumors say that there's one big bank operating in various eu countries that is going to annouce full suport for bitcoin... maybe. Let''s see what happens, but for sure some bank starts it - if not current there comes new.

[grifferz]

Hard to start a new bank, but maybe one of the newer banks would be more open-minded. Tried Metrobank?

https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/Commercial/

[meanig]

You could try Allied Irish Bank or Bank of Ireland. They're in the Euro area, use SEPA and they're desperate for business. You won't have any difficulties opening an account with them.

[glerant]

I would prefer to use a UK bank or one situated in the European union which will enable faster transfers and all the other benefits.

Its not going to happen.  HSBC told me that if they found me doing bitcoin trades, I would have all my accounts shut and not be welcome to do business with them again.

To be fair, its not the bank itself that is at fault here.  They money laundering rules are set up to prevent something like Bitcoin going mainstream.  Until they change, it will be impossible to get banking services.

You are kidding, right?

This is the bank involved in the biggest money laundering scam in the World's history. Directly causing thousands of decapitations in Mexico and Colombia and untold misery around the world.

And yet if an English Grandad wants to switch current accounts he is treated like an Al queida suspect.

ROFL! Hahahahahaq! LMFAO! You English are scared little fawning sheep - take a look at the brave people of Kiev!

Hahahahahaha! ROFL! LMFAO!

[hilariousandco]

I would prefer to use a UK bank or one situated in the European union which will enable faster transfers and all the other benefits.

Its not going to happen.  HSBC told me that if they found me doing bitcoin trades, I would have all my accounts shut and not be welcome to do business with them again.

To be fair, its not the bank itself that is at fault here.  They money laundering rules are set up to prevent something like Bitcoin going mainstream.  Until they change, it will be impossible to get banking services.

You are kidding, right?

This is the bank involved in the biggest money laundering scam in the World's history. Directly causing thousands of decapitations in Mexico and Colombia and untold misery around the world.

And yet if an English Grandad wants to switch current accounts he is treated like an Al queida suspect.

ROFL! Hahahahahaq! LMFAO! You English are scared little fawning sheep - take a look at the brave people of Kiev!

Hahahahahaha! ROFL! LMFAO!

Haha, the hypocrisy of the banks, especially HSBC, is greatly ironic.

[mantaxer]

Metrobank is part of barclays, big no no!

Hard to start a new bank, but maybe one of the newer banks would be more open-minded. Tried Metrobank?

https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/Commercial/

[MooHa]

OP, how about setting up two businesses? Fiatco. deals only with fiat currency. One function of Fiatco. is to take payments by way collateral into its client funds account. One major client is Bitzco. Bitzco does very complex software related things. Doesn't make much fiat in turnover, just the fees from its clients, such as Fiatco.
Bitzco. occasionally settles up with Fiatco. Luckily the amount of collateral collected against Bitzco.'s debt to Fiatco. is very well judged- it pretty much matches every time.
Sure it's a complex way to go about things, but I reckon it would be legal, as long as you don't do it this way with an intention to defraud, make fake accounts or cheat taxes.

Bitzco. is a software company and, though it would be doing plenty bitcoin dealings, it's none of the bank's business since it's not using the bank account for them (they wouldn't notice anyway).
Guess you'd need to think for a bit about what service Fiatco. is providing. But if they charge Bitzco. funny rates, or insist on taking collateral in weird ways, or channeling client's income through them so they can measure their cut, they're all private business matters between the two companies. No-one else's business but the taxman. The bank didn't say that they couldn't have clients who use bitcoin.

So as not to be making fake accounts, the funds have to genuinely flow as they are described, but that's a question of structuring it right, and the arrangements between the two companies can legitimately be as madly complex as those two companies choose.

[grifferz]

Metrobank is part of barclays, big no no!

Oh, have you asked Barclays? Still, can't hurt to ask Metrobank can it?

[Winalunt]

Or you can use western union 

[dewdeded]

Maybe check http://www.neo-bee.com/index.php/en/
infos under: http://www.coindesk.com/bank-like-bitcoin-portal-neo-opens-first-branch-cyprus/

[uhoh]

Metrobank is part of barclays, big no no!

Hard to start a new bank, but maybe one of the newer banks would be more open-minded. Tried Metrobank?

https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/Commercial/

Metro Bank is it's own independent Bank using it's own license (the first of such to be granted in over 100 years). Not sure where you got the Barclays link from other than the fact the CEO started his career with them.

Definitely worth a shot. Their Faster Payments System is atrocious though, takes the full 2 hours to settle (sometimes more). Useless for localbitcoins trading but still fine for an exchange.