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Author Topic: BTCC Mint 2018 V-Series One and One Tenth Bitcoin - Official Launch  (Read 3863 times)
bobbyclee
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August 29, 2018, 08:12:55 AM
 #121

Who generates the keys / address pairs for these coins?

Who assembles the coins?

Bobby, you stated in a PM to me that you are not the seller of these coins?  Then who is selling them?

Do you still work for BTCC?

Seems like you left in January according to this: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobbyclee/

Hi minerjones,

Great questions, and thank you for asking them, and giving me a chance to reply to all.

For the 2018 coins created so far (200 of the One Bitcoin, 900 of the One Tenth Bitcoin), I have been the person to solely create the private key stickers and address pairs.  The electronic files for the private keys have been deleted (and they have never been copied off of the original hard drive either). 

The coin assembly process, applying the stickers, was done by me and some BTCC staff members, whom I have directly supervised for this batch.

We intend to make some more One Tenth Bitcoin after this batch of 900.  Probably start with ~400 coins.  I anticipate that the process for these new coins to be the same as above, where I will be directly involved, as in the past.

I am not the seller of the coins, as these coins are being sold by BTCC company, as BTCC Mint products.

As you all may know, I was the co-founder and CEO of BTCC for many years. Earlier this year, in January, BTCC was acquired, and since then, I am no longer an employee, manager, board member, or shareholder of BTCC. Currently, I am only serving as their consultant for a fixed duration, and I have been directly involved with helping them with certain aspects of the BTCC Mint business.  (See above for my involvement with BTCC Mint coin production.)

Let me know if there's anything else to clarify.

Short summary: I fully endorse the security aspects of all BTCC Mint coins made up to this point in time. As for the material quality for the titanium coins, please understand that titanium is a very rough metal to work with, and we just don't have them in the quality that is comparable to other fine metals like gold and silver. In the coins we make, we have already rejected many of the bad quality ones.  If you do find one that is sub-par, please contact BTCC Mint customer service, and ask for a replacement.

Hope this helps!

thanks,
Bobby

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bobbyclee
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August 29, 2018, 08:16:25 AM
 #122

BOBBY, And who made the keys??  Answer these questions - no  dancing around as you obviously didn’t oversee this process as the quality out the door was piss poor to say the least with 99% of your “customers “ not happy with your shipped product ??

Which makes myself and others wonder - who had access to these keys that you were personally supposed to oversee??

Also this is not limited to the rolls of 1/10’s - the ones in the boxes also came out pretty crappy. As shown in one of my pics.

Covering shipping is more of an insult to this collector community as these coins have lost 100% of their collector value being so damaged and banged up,  and are simply worth nothing more than  peel value and $2 in titanium if that.

You may want to rethink your stance here on your “solution”.

Thanks!

Hi buckrogers,

Thanks for the feedback and comments.

In terms of your specific questions, I have answered some of them in my post to minerjones above.  Please reference that.

Again, only I had "full" access to the private keys, and the electronic copies have been deleted/destroyed.

The physical printout of the private-keys (there was only ever 1 copy printed out; printed by me personally) was indeed also handled by other member(s) of the BTCC staff, and that was all done in a secure room, under my direct supervision.  It is my strong belief that no private keys were leaked or recorded during this coin assembly process.

thanks,
Bobby
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August 29, 2018, 08:17:58 AM
 #123

>and only sell the One Tenth Bitcoins in single packaging

Could you put some for sale on the EU site?

If someone wants to be a reseller for EU, please contact BTCC Mint.

You are fucking joking right?  Please stop selling coins....  oh wait.... you are not the ones who sell them apparently  SKAM central!!!

Wait,...Bobby you arent the one who is selling them?  Can you explain if you are "in charge" here.  Do you oversee the key gen and assembly, and you are saying a third party sells them?  Im confused

Hi wheelz1200,

Thanks for your very good and legitimate questions.

I have answered similar questions above, for minerjones and buckrogers.  Please refer to those posts.

If I missed anything, please post your question(s) again.

thanks,
Bobby
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August 29, 2018, 08:24:14 AM
 #124

>and only sell the One Tenth Bitcoins in single packaging

Could you put some for sale on the EU site?

If someone wants to be a reseller for EU, please contact BTCC Mint.

You are fucking joking right?  Please stop selling coins....  oh wait.... you are not the ones who sell them apparently  SKAM central!!!

Wait,...Bobby you arent the one who is selling them?  Can you explain if you are "in charge" here.  Do you oversee the key gen and assembly, and you are saying a third party sells them?  Im confused

YES, I second this.... it needs a detailed explanation!!  

BTCC is allowing Bobby to make their  "official statement" for them though. Figurehead/puppet?

Edit to add: In his first reply and further on Bobby replies with "BTCC" and "they" rather than "we".


to clarify here:

The only official "BTCC" statements or posts, are those coming from the "BTCC_Official" account.

My posts here, under "bobbyclee", are my personal posts, by me as a private individual.
I hope that all of you can appreciate the difference here.

For example, no matter how much I was to "represent BTCC" using "bobbyclee", that won't necessarily be accepted or acknowledged by BTCC.

And to clarify, I am not operating as their "figurehead" or "puppet".
I'm speaking my own mind, and telling you how things are.

And yes, I purposely clarified my posts to use the pronoun "they" instead of "we", when referring to BTCC.  Again, that's because at this point, this is the right differentiation.  I have helped BTCC on certain specific aspects of Mint business this year, but I am not an official member of BTCC at this point in time.

Let me know if you have more questions.  (I do expect all of us to be mature here on this forum, without resorting to cursing or name-calling.  Thank you in advance. If there are things that you're not happy about, please do tell me.)

thanks,
Bobby
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August 29, 2018, 08:27:23 AM
 #125

Given all this talk about who assembled--can't help but wonder if my private keys are safe (or even accurate). According to first bits, the amount is still there for now. Grabbing popcorn to see how this one turns out.

Hi Jajorda23,

As you have brought up an extremely important point, I do want to repeat myself here and calm everyone done:

I can make a full endorsement to the safety and security of the private keys in all of the coins and BTCC Mint collectibles made through now.

thanks,
Bobby
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August 29, 2018, 08:29:32 AM
 #126

Given all this talk about who assembled--can't help but wonder if my private keys are safe (or even accurate). According to first bits, the amount is still there for now. Grabbing popcorn to see how this one turns out.

Well, until an actual spokesperson from BTCC Mint or whoever is in charge now (bobby?) comes forth and explains what happened and the QC supposed to occur when making the Priv Keys, then we can assume they are NOT safe for long until stated positively otherwise and documented with proof.

Hi buckrogers,

As mentioned in my recent posts just now:

As long as you trust me as a person, and trust what I have to say here, then you should NOT need to worry about the security and safe nature of the private keys for the 2018 series of BTCC Mint coins.

thanks,
Bobby

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August 29, 2018, 08:36:35 AM
 #127

Before this thread gets too buried.

What is the status of anyone reaching out to BTCC and Bobby for some sort of resolution, compensation or otherwise?

@bobbyclee it would be great if you could actually chime in here to let all your customers know what you have in mind.

Thanks!


--edit: cheap titanium? ---garbage!

@bobbyclee : if you are seeking advice on what you should do : 
BTCC should reimburse anything over peel value and shipping IMO if they want to continue doing any business.





Unfortunately, as explained in a previous post 1-2 years ago, there are real disadvantages when comparing Titanium coins to other traditional coins made of previous metals, like Gold and Silver, which really are FINE quality. In comparison, Titanium is a rough industrial metal, and we tell our customers that you will not get the same quality and polish as in Gold and Silver coins.  I'm sorry, but that's just the reality.

thanks,
Bobby


I see and understand the different metal qualities. But let's put that aside for a moment and assume all metals being equal, what the hell happened to the packaging? if I or anyone were to order coins from any reputable mint they would come sealed properly and usually in a mint tube, never in a million years would we receive a stack of coins loose in bubble wrap? and if so, that mint would be out of business before long, would you not agree?

Plus you seem to think this is limited to only the rolls of tenths? not sure why that is? I have coins that came in the very nice Leatherette cases, where the coin itself looks just as bad as some of the loose ones, as if BTCC had a coin tossing contest pre-shipping? See the pic above which is a 1 BTC coin that arrived in the Leatherette case.

The "reality" is NO QC was done by you personally unless you can state otherwise, and if so then there is a gross negligence on your part for letting these out the door this way, basically making the coins that were banged around in transport NOT IN AIR TITES (supplied in the same package by the way) worth nothing more than peel value as the collector value is in the quality and beauty of the coin in tandem with the other features of a no input coin, which is now lost.

Plus lets not forget the most important factor, the private keys.

Unless you can explain the process of your "personal oversight" to the production and application of these keys, we cannot assume they are not compromised. maybe a rogue employee? how would you even know?

We do look forward to your detailed explanation.

So there's your "reality" check.

thanks!


Hi buckrogers,

I am truly sorry to hear that you're very disappointed about the metallic qualities of the 2018 Titanium coins. Your best solution is to reach out to BTCC Mint customer support to ask for a full refund or replacement.

I am also truly sorry to hear that you're very disappointed by the packing and shipment of the coins this year.  I can only tell you that, to the best of my knowledge, the BTCC staff used the same process and methodologies as previous year. For reasons that I cannot explain, it seems that some customers have had big disappointments in the "rolling damage in packaging", which was caused by the shipper and shipment conditions, as assessed by BTCC staff.  I honestly do NOT think it was due to any negligence, intentional or not, on the part of the BTCC staff members.  In fact, the packaging and shipping has been done by the same BTCC staff members for the past 3 years.

I hope that these answers are helpful.

thanks,
Bobby

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August 29, 2018, 08:41:31 AM
 #128

Indeed, Private key management, handling and application now become important issues.
There have been numerous changes with BTCC in the recent past as we have struggled to find information that indicates that you are still part of this mix.
Do you use 3rd parties?
If so, can you describe the processes to us where the private keys are concerned. Do these people have access to exposed keys? Who applies the holos?
I know you will understand where the trepidation is coming from as you understand key security very well Smiley

regards

Viz


Hi Viz,

Thank you for the questions.  Yes, I think I do understand the complex (and important) topic of security for private keys.

To clarify: during the coin assembly process, a restricted number of long-time (and loyal) BTCC staff members have access to exposed keys. This has always been the case for coin assembly, and frankly speaking, I don't see a way to avoid it.

The key issue is that the exposed private keys are not ever recorded down for future abuse or theft.
In that sense, I can endorse the current process and give you my assurance here.

thanks,
Bobby

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August 29, 2018, 08:52:28 AM
Merited by BitcoinNewsMagazine (2)
 #129

To all forum members here, especially to people following this thread:

I see that some people have taken to put "Negative Trust" on my personal profile, "bobbyclee".
I do not think that's fair, especially now that I have give straight forward answers to all of your good questions above.

If this community does not trust me and does not value my comments, insights, and posts, then I can pull back and refrain from interacting in this public forum.  

However, if you DO trust me and DO value my participation, then please restore my trust, and put in some "Positive Trust" under my current personal account.  Otherwise, if my profile stays at Negative Trust, then this will be my last post.

(Yes, you're essentially voting with your actions, by choosing to ignore and not trust me, and telling others to not trust me.)

All of you can help.

By the way, if you lift my Trust Rating, I will return a favor to this community and participate in the World Crypto Conference in Las Vegas on October 31 this year, and give a very special keynote speech about Physical Bitcoins, and my own personal journey as a coin maker for BTCC Mint collectibles.  I promise to share some great insights, so hope that many of you can attend, and looking forward to meeting you all in person.

I ask for LOVE, and not HATE.   Smiley

Peace.
Bobby
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August 29, 2018, 01:26:15 PM
Last edit: August 29, 2018, 03:27:22 PM by hybridsole
Merited by vizique (5), BG4 (4), buckrogers (2), chronicsky (1)
 #130

I have sat by quietly and reserved judgement waiting to see how Bobby would respond to all of this.

So after weeks of non-responsiveness, while your customers have had loose coins banging around in their boxes, you are back on the forum within a day complaining about imaginary trust points on the internet?

Your company has lost a near irreparable amount of trust through this debacle.  Let's not forget the changing auction rules, improper rules to prevent shill bidders, and continuing to ignore the advice of your loyal customers who gave you tips along the way.  

As a collectible coin provider, you have failed on the basic premise of delivering a quality product for those customers who ordered rolls.  The best you can come up with is a voucher for free shipping on a future order and to wait 24 hours before making ultimatums about removing trust?  Wow.  I'm really shocked at how much of a customer service and public relations disaster this is.
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August 29, 2018, 04:34:31 PM
 #131

@hybridsole BTCC is no longer @bobbyclee's company as he has explained. I respect his posts. @BTCC_Official already posted about the packaging issues and seems to want to make things right. IMO direct your ire towards the company, not @bobbyclee.

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August 29, 2018, 05:30:46 PM
 #132




I dont care about "Forum Trust" in this Case, for this premium 20% fee its not the quality I am used to or expected from BTCC...
anyways this was my last order as collector from btcc, its not a collection item anymore. in this condition its more and more a common item and not worth with this premium fee.

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August 29, 2018, 05:40:10 PM
Last edit: August 29, 2018, 11:50:41 PM by teeGUMES
Merited by BG4 (4), chronicsky (1), Ticked (1), krogothmanhattan (1), Spazzer (1)
 #133

What needs to be communicated and understood here is that the bitcointalk collectibles community are not run of the mill people coming in off of the street and saying "oh that's a neat coin I want one". For many of us this is our passion, our hobby, something we wakeup and smile about, and for some; a living. Coming onto the forum and browsing what other collectors are auctioning/raffling/or outright selling takes up a large portion of our day. Coin creators are a whole different bag.. Original releases/Annual releases/Brand New Ideas enable us to do what we love the most.. collect and trade.

As a coin creator BTCC Mint is expected to make a quality product and price it fair while allowing themselves plus the collector to be able to make slight premiums. What is being felt by the collectible community right now is that BTCC Mint has rushed and pushed out coins at a quality that the premium is currently only held on the BTCC Mint side of things and the collector is left holding the bag. The sloppy release schedule, the inability to use the "contact us"  page, and the long silence of both BTCC_Official and Bobby have set this community into a flurry of questions and albeit stress... Tension and frustration remain high due to a proposal of two weak options as a sort of slap in the face apology. To Bobby; you were the face of BTCC previously and this is why things are being directed at you, being in the public you need some tougher skin to work this sort of thing out. Many well respected and top tier forum members have consistently reached out to BTCC during your time there and now your time away.. but there has always been someone that has had your back and would be willing to help with this and any other dilemna. All you had to do was communicate with us.. an open dialogue. There's no better damage control than to include us in the process.

As far as I can remember and search back a-ways, the quality of the Titanium rounds produced by BTCC Mint during their first run of coins was a lot higher than the 2018 run. We accepted the facts that Titanium coins would not be as shiny/sparkly/pristine as a gold or silver coin.. we accepted it when you told us the first time around and nothing should have had to of been said for this run. If it were a slight imperfection or something similar to what we've seen before, a new collector would have been put in their place by one of the older collectors that knew this was a factor in the production of Titanium BTCC coins. The quality HAS deteriorated... at the very least by the people packing and inspecting the coins.. some of these should not have been sent out the door and instead tossed into the "do not ship" pile. The statement of the packaging for the rolls has been expressed enough through pictures and outrage throughout the thread so I won't bring that up again.

I guess since I explained the role of a coin creator I'll explain what we as coin collectors and having a collectibles community does for everybody involved.
Coin collectors create the secondary markets, the hype, the sales, and garner the new attention from visitors from the outside world into this realm of physical bitcoins.  There have been many a coin creator that have lived or died by the sword due to this forum. The fact that BTCC Mint was selling out their coins immediately before an official launch shows the dedication we have.. whether it be a website change alert or just a casual once a day manual check.. we found your coins listed on the BTCC Mint Store DAYS before BTCC_Official came to make an official launch thread. The smiles and smirks on our faces when we got through to the checkout page and the first confirmations came that our bitcoin had gone through. I know for a fact trades were made even before coins were in hand.. mere minutes after checkout. We crave this. Some of us grabbed extra just to be able to spread amongst the community. And for what? A slight premium like I stated before.  We pay for quality.. we pay for speed.. we know no bounds when it comes to quality and rarity of coins. You saw this with your Silver coin release BTCC Mint.. you know the obstacles many of us overcome just to own your coins.

What happened with the rolls is easily explainable.. shit happens. The silence from BTCC Mint and the heartbreak felt by the collectors in the last week caused this to snowball larger and larger and it became out of control. When I pay good money; an agreeably fair amount for what I expect to be quality coins with quality packaging, and I receive what I received.. you're more than right to assume I am going to be pissed off and want answers. This here was your shortfall BTCC_Official.. you waited too long to release a statement. It felt like a cash grab, a "f___ you" to the collectors.. in reality we know that it isn't but this sort of thing has happened before and it will happen again. Both in the physical world aswell as the digital blockchain(s) the majority of us have experienced someone else unfairly take our money and disappear. The onus was on you to release a statement to stop the brigading and current situation. Our minds needed to be put at ease.

Last I can only explain my feelings about your two options of apology.. I bought a roll of ten tenths from you.. they are now mine. We did a trade and I held up my end and put my faith in you. I received something sub par.. but you know what.. they are now my sub par somethings. All throughout the physical bitcoin universe there are "Error Coins" and "Error Pieces" and a lot of the time the error is made famous and it demands its own premium. I have eight coins I can deal with, but two of them suffered very visible damage from the shipping.. but in all reality these are now unique to me, to my collection.. I value these when others will not. They tell a story that I will be able to share later on in life when I show off my collection (how we continue with this mishap will either make that story have a smile and a laugh, or a scowl with a much worse tone). A small blemish on BTCC Mint but we all make mistakes.. we are human. It all depends on how you pick yourself up after the fact and come out and show some love to the ones that put their faith, their heart, and their life into your coins. For me.. I don't want a refund, I don't want a coin replacement.. an apology, an explanation and something just to show me "hey, we care about you". Maybe it's a coin at peel value.. maybe it's an "i'm sorry" post card signed by the team, maybe some stupid Chinese dollar store item with a BTC and BTCC written on it.. anything to show me that I'm just not customer 121328 to you. And you know what.. a secondary market would open up for these items as well and the premiums would be ridiculous.. because I have one and someone doesn't. It's just what we do.
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August 29, 2018, 05:41:23 PM
 #134



not even close to their webpage pic.

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August 29, 2018, 06:55:59 PM
 #135

I ask for LOVE, and not HATE.   Smiley

Peace.
Bobby

I have never been a fan of big companies entering this market for many reasons I won’t go into here, and feel BTCC made many mistakes in the design and implementation of their coins that could have been avoided with a simple consultation with other experienced coin makers.

That being said, you are clearly not here scamming people, and as a member of this community all I can do is apologize on behalf of the way you’re being treated here. You’ve stated the inferiority of the metal used, the multiple hands involved in the process that can add oversights, and how you support refunds for unhappy customers. I’m not sure what else you can do at this point.

I own no BTCC products and would even say I have a negative view of them, but can see that you’re wrongly being bullied via the trust system.  This is a common problem many users face at Bitcointalk and I hope that you continue to participate here as your success in crypto makes you an excellent community resource. Thankfully, a few other members have joined me in trying to restore your trust rating and hopefully that is enough support for you to feel some love.

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August 30, 2018, 07:16:09 AM
 #136

All I can say is I'm glad I didn't buy any in this batch... Maybe subsequent batches will be of expected quality...
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August 30, 2018, 10:01:03 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 10:39:02 AM by hybridsole
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #137

It was a stupid decision to wrap the rolls of metal coins without airtites.  They tried to duplicate the poker chip roll design, which makes sense because they are poker chips. Poker chips are plastic.  Plastic is light, metal is heavy.  I honestly can't believe BTCC is defending this decision to wrap metal coins in a cheap plastic with no protection whatsoever.  And then to throw them in a box with no padding? There's no mint shipping quality metal coins in rolls like this.  Shanghai mint silver pandas come individually in an airtite, no matter how many you buy.  That's a $20 coin from one of the largest mints in the world, and you can't purchase their coins in bare metal. Your coins are supposed to be loaded with a minimum of 0.1 BTC which is $700 of loaded face value, and you wrapped these up like a roll of cheap pennies.  

This is a pathetic way to run a company and I can't believe you are still defending this cheap decision to save a couple $'s.  Notice how there's no secondary market developing for these coins. Bavicrypto has an auction right now for one of these 2018 coins.  It ended with zero bidders.  
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August 30, 2018, 10:19:25 AM
 #138

This is a pathetic way to run a company and I can't believe you are still defending this cheap decision to save a couple $'s.  Notice how there's no secondary market developing for these coins. Bavicrypto has an auction right now for one of these 2018 coins.  It ended with zero bidders.

The price started above the price in the shop. I would be happy to bid if it was a real auction. Resale above buy price take more than one week to develope.
But maybe you are right. Only the future will show. Depends if the criticism about the keys will effect the price. And if BTCC stop for more 2018 coins now. A high grade 2018 coin could be unique Wink

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August 30, 2018, 10:30:45 AM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1), comit (1)
 #139

@bobbyclee, nobody was attacking you personally. We are just frustrated with the finish quality and lack of customer service provided by BTCC. Whilst we appreciate you addressing the questions regarding key management, we still want to know who should be held accountable for this.
Yes Titanium is a difficult metal to work with, but some of these coins should never have passed QC. It's understandable why people are annoyed given the fact that they've spent a ~$150 premium per coin only for the quality to be sub-par and be offered no compensation whatsoever.
The coins had (and still have) a lot of potential. The way this issue is dealt with will very much affect future sales.
The community aren't harbouring hate. We just want a little love back as we feel that we were cheated with our purchases. BTCC coins have a reputation for being top quality. Sadly this series has damaged that reputation.
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August 30, 2018, 10:44:25 AM
 #140

Every customer is unhappy with this series and what does BTCC ? -> A solution ? No

First of all, open the shop again to sell other common Coins with a high premium to disappoint the remaining customers...

Customer Support in perfection !

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