Bitcoin & PoW is a waste of energy & destroys nature

[gollum]

It is insane to waste energy on mining bitcoin in the age of peak oil where greedy energy companies destroy nature for profit.
Right now all bitcoin miners consume the amount of the energy produced by an average US nuclear power plant (30 million KwH/day), or the total oil production of Phillipines (12,000 barrels of oil per day)

The mining of bitcoin uses PoW (Proof of Work) to secure the network, which leads to an exponential growth of energy spent on mining.
All miners compete against each other and must increase mining power (energy usage) to increase their chance of being rewarded in the mining process.

But there are other models to secure a crypto currency without the need to waste energy: The security model of PoS (Proof of Stake) relies instead of the ownership of coins.
The reason is simple: the more coins you own, the less is the risk that you wish to damage the coin for short term profit, since you would lose the value of your current holdings.

So I hope Bitcoin evolves and starts to use PoS, or similar methods to save energy and save the nature.


Sources:

Proof of Stake
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

Bitcoin Mining Uses $15 Million's Worth Of Electricity Every Day
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/

How much electricity does a typical nuclear power plant generate?
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=104&t=21

List of countries by oil production
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

Canada, before and after tar sand mining:

[FeedbackLoop]

This could have been (yet another) thread to discuss PoW benefits and drawbacks. However OP made sure this wouldn't be the case.


"Electricity consumption is estimated based on power consumption of 650 Watts per gigahash" *

 


/thread





* for the newbies: that's 3 orders of magnitude larger than the present rates

[heskey]

Are there no alternatives to PoS and PoW? I like neither of them.

Btw, this thread is almost like a commercial for mintcoin

[TKeenan]

It is insane to waste energy on mining bitcoin

Bitcoin Mining Uses $15 Million's Worth Of Electricity Every Day
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/

Pure - unmitigated idiot.  '$15 Million worth of electricity'   Which of you morons believe that?  Even the article cited is largely dedicated to show that is complete bullshit.  Clearly, you are an incompetent fool who cannot perform even simple arithmetic.  Bitcoin mining takes about the same energy as it takes to make a few more tons of steel today.  A meaningless amount in comparison to the worlds demand for other crap.

Go back in your hole NXT promoters.  NXT only solves one problem - and that problem doesn't exist.  Green fools.

[gollum]

Let's not forget about all trojan hijacked PC's where their CPUs/GPUs are used to mine bitcoin. That would not be possible with PoS.

[TKeenan]

Let's not forget about all trojan hijacked PC's where their CPUs/GPUs are used to mine bitcoin. That would not be possible with PoS.

queue up the commercial promotion for how great NXT is and how everyone should run out and buy that garbage.  Your pump and dump is struggling already?  Shame.

[gollum]

Let's not forget about all trojan hijacked PC's where their CPUs/GPUs are used to mine bitcoin. That would not be possible with PoS.

queue up the commercial promotion for how great NXT is and how everyone should run out and buy that garbage.  Your pump and dump is struggling already?  Shame.

I don't own any NXT coins, but I believe PoS might be a better solution than PoW.

[heskey]

It is insane to waste energy on mining bitcoin

Bitcoin Mining Uses $15 Million's Worth Of Electricity Every Day
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/

Pure - unmitigated idiot.  '$15 Million worth of electricity'   Which of you morons believe that?  Even the article cited is largely dedicated to show that is complete bullshit.  Clearly, you are an incompetent fool who cannot perform even simple arithmetic.  Bitcoin mining takes about the same energy as it takes to make a few more tons of steel today.  A meaningless amount in comparison to the worlds demand for other crap.

Go back in your hole NXT promoters.  NXT only solves one problem - and that problem doesn't exist.  Green fools.

I agree with you that it's a very unsignificant amount. BUT, mining is still very silly and non productive.

[TKeenan]

Let's not forget about all trojan hijacked PC's where their CPUs/GPUs are used to mine bitcoin. That would not be possible with PoS.

queue up the commercial promotion for how great NXT is and how everyone should run out and buy that garbage.  Your pump and dump is struggling already?  Shame.

I don't own any NXT coins, but I believe PoS might be a better solution than PoW.

Dude, KnCMiner will supply all necessary mining systems in just about 6 months.  Those are wicked efficient compared to the old crap your numbers are based upon.  The have 3T machines which only take a ROM kilowatt.  This is a non issue.  NXT doesn't offer any advantage and HUGE disadvantages.  NXT will see a very serious dump in about more days of trying to stay afloat. 

[Xinixes]

Yes, somewhat true - but can one do anything with the money today without affecting nature? If I have not invested in that mining rigg or ASIC shold I have invested in a company that produce shit in Cina or India? Should I have burn up some enery on traveling?

I suppose that with this thinking I would have given my money away to charity or some other use like cancer researh. And maybe I will some day because you are right, the world is on is way down the toilet. But for now I will be mining and have some fun with that because I don't really do anything else to pollute the world more than wasting energy. We can take up the wasting with the worlds military–industrial complex who is producing bombs that they then blow up over someones head - what a waste!

And yes PoS can be the way to go ...

[TKeenan]

I agree with you that it's a very unsignificant amount. BUT, mining is still very silly and non productive.

It produces bitcoins.  And, it is necessary to process transactions in a manner which assures they are not corrupt.  Next time you are at the stop light in your car, don't stomp on the accelerator.  This will save more energy than if we all ran heavy miners in our house.  Quit listening to green fools who can add.

[jr3951]

I completely disagree, how much does our current money system waste in energy daily? all the trucks to move the money, buildings and vaults that store it, every computer in every bank in every country...

bitcoin is the next step in efficiency

[gollum]

Let's not forget about all trojan hijacked PC's where their CPUs/GPUs are used to mine bitcoin. That would not be possible with PoS.

queue up the commercial promotion for how great NXT is and how everyone should run out and buy that garbage.  Your pump and dump is struggling already?  Shame.

I don't own any NXT coins, but I believe PoS might be a better solution than PoW.

Dude, KnCMiner will supply all necessary mining systems in just about 6 months.  Those are wicked efficient compared to the old crap your numbers are based upon.  The have 3T machines which only take a ROM kilowatt.  This is a non issue.  NXT doesn't offer any advantage and HUGE disadvantages.  NXT will see a very serious dump in about more days of trying to stay afloat. 

It is foolish to believe that effecient ASIC rigs will decrease the total power consumption of the bitcoin network, at best the power consumption doesn't change at all while the total hash rate will increase.

[heskey]

I agree with you that it's a very unsignificant amount. BUT, mining is still very silly and non productive.

It produces bitcoins.  And, it is necessary to process transactions in a manner which assures they are not corrupt.  Next time you are at the stop light in your car, don't stomp on the accelerator.  This will save more energy than if we all ran heavy miners in our house.  Quit listening to green fools who can add.

I've never liked green fools, in fact I've hated them for as long as I remember. (Starting with Al'Gores 'hockey stick controversy' mumbo jumbo)
But, I still think that this market will adapt to efficiency, eventhough PoS just seems like an even worse replacement.

[TKeenan]

It is foolish to believe that effecient ASIC rigs will decrease the total power consumption of the bitcoin network, at best the power consumption doesn't change at all while the total hash rate will increase.

Why don't you just put a solar cell on top of your car and drive around for free all day?  People who can't add love this kind of shit.

[thedarklight]

Have you heard of Solarcoin? It solves this problem. http://solarcoin.org/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25010-solarcoin-cryptocurrency-pays-you-to-go-green.html

[vinboy]

i prefer the picture on the right side. at least it has road that I can drive through the continent.
whereas the picture on the left, i would need to walk through the forest or use boats, which is inefficient. Could get eaten by wolf or tigers too.

[nirom]

Let's not forget that in Canada, I use my rig to heat up the house in winter.

[eddilicious]

easy easy, human beings are a waste of energy.

now shut up and move along 

[glendall]

It's not a 'waste'.

The work of PoW is work to create a currency that can not be counterfeit,  fungible,fast, and can not be created out of thin air like fiat.

And there are alternatives. Both in the PoS coins , like Hobonickels which make me 6% interest, and many others. Such as coins that ontribue computing resources to projects, like CureCoin.

If you want to talk about waste, how about the money and energy involved in building America's latest supercarrier. Or the Olympics.  Bitcoin has a lot of value and is useful.